How Blizz can get raiders out of fire

[Ninurta]

Just wondering why it is blizz's responsibility to get people not to stand in fire? Totally the players fault if they suck.

---------- Post added 2011-05-06 at 01:54 PM ----------

How about anyone that dies while "stranding in fire" immediately upon rezzing up goes back to level 1....that'll teach'em!!

Or even just one level that would get annoying really fast if you always stand in fire

[orenan]

We have this on 2 bosses in Vortex pinnacle, and people still cant figure out where to stand / where not to. When called out, the bad player answers with something glib. Bad is bad, you cant fix stupid with incentives.

^ This. Bad players that stand in stuff usually do bad dps already. Making them do worse dps when standing in stuff isnt going to change that they are bad. They'll still suck, ask for dps meters after every fight and go silent when they see they're below the tanks or explode in rants of false joy when they see they were top on damage due to killing everyone else with their stupidity.

[Firecrest]

the penalty for standing in the fire is death, no need for anything else to sort out the bad players ;>

To you and the 50 or so other people who posted simialr nonsense in this thread.

1) There are many degrees of "fire".
2) MOST of them do not kill you right away.
3) Just because it doesn't one shot you, doesn't mean it's okay to stand in it.

[Szemere]

Just a thought...

What if the person standing in fire saw a drop in their performance (threat/survivability, HPS, or DPS debuff) instead of just damage.

You normally instantly die. If you die your threat drops from the table, your survivability becomes zero, and you can't heal or dps anything. If fire makes you not die, that would be bad, but if it does make you die, design goal achieved?

[Deleted]

The only effective way for Blizzard to move raiders out of the fire is to place free loot outside of it.

[leaks]

Hey did anyone mention that dieing hurts your performance yet?

[babyback]

To you and the 50 or so other people who posted simialr nonsense in this thread.

1) There are many degrees of "fire".
2) MOST of them do not kill you right away.
3) Just because it doesn't one shot you, doesn't mean it's okay to stand in it.

Even if you dont die you need attention from a healer that might loose focus on someone else which causes deaths and the healer loose mana that he/she will need later.

[necromus]

In Cata, I don't think people ever stand in fire/etc. on purpose, it is just sometimes hard to notice if you are standing in something when there is so much going on on your screen and so many different things you have to focus on. I think Blizzard should make big translucent flames appear in front of your entire screen if you are standing in fire, green toxic mist appear in front of your entire screen when you are standing in poison, etc., that way there would be no missing it. I recently downloaded the GTFO add-on (that is it's actual name) and I love it because when you are standing in something you should not be there is no missing the BUZZZZ! BUZZZZ! BUZZZZ! sound at all. It helps me notice I am standing in something I should not be a lot faster than I used to be able to with the standard Blizzard interface.

[Garganchewin]

But but but... If DPS stop standing in fire to max their numbers raidleading will no longer be a challenge.

[Scuravolpe]

Or they could try not being stonefucking retarded and get out of it.

The more obvious and easily avoidable something is, the heavier a penalty it should incur. If a huge boulder comes flying at you and you have ten seconds to move your ass, it should instantly kill you if it somehow hits you. The opposite is true - if you have no way of avoiding something, it shouldn't have a dramatic effect...that would just be arbitrary death.

I like the idea of effects that do other things than damage though. We can only go so far with "and THIS boss does a thing that you move out of or you take damage, but it's a different color than the last boss that did the exact same thing."

[drake741]

So how would the game recognize avoidable damage from everything else? Getting rid of waterlogged debuff on Ascendant Council? Jumping out of the magma on Nefarian? A certain timer for each ability and the amount of time you're allowed to stay in it? That's gonna be difficult to implement and unreliable at best.

Not EVERY fire would have this, because not all of them are avoidable. You can avoid most sound waves on Atramedes, and you can avoid his fire breath. Getting hit by those could reduce your dps output. Getting hit by Waterlogged is random, and unavoidable, so it wouldn't apply to those. its not a computer judging what is and is not avoidable or how many ticks are acceptable and unacceptable. Blizz makes those decisions and implements them accordingly.

[Deleted]

While I agree on that getting your Threat/HPS/DPS decreased while standing in sh*t would reduce the numbers of bad players by far, I also think it's the wrong way of approaching it. If you get a stat penalty while standing in fire, you would only move out of the fire to help yourself. If you don't notice a decrease in the numbers you are putting out while getting your spine burnt to a crisp, you don't give a rat's tail about the rest of the group.

Raiding is a team sport, and those who do not understand that shouldn't be raiding at all.

[Spondoo]

This would take too much effort for such an insignificant playerbase. Crap idea, when I see someone dying by deliberately standing in fire to increase their DPS in my raid they get kicked, and if they're locked in I don't give them loot.

[drake741]

You normally instantly die. If you die your threat drops from the table, your survivability becomes zero, and you can't heal or dps anything. If fire makes you not die, that would be bad, but if it does make you die, design goal achieved?

Right... Except you DON'T instantly die.

---------- Post added 2011-05-06 at 02:14 PM ----------

Or they could try not being stonefucking retarded and get out of it.

The more obvious and easily avoidable something is, the heavier a penalty it should incur. If a huge boulder comes flying at you and you have ten seconds to move your ass, it should instantly kill you if it somehow hits you. The opposite is true - if you have no way of avoiding something, it shouldn't have a dramatic effect...that would just be arbitrary death.

I like the idea of effects that do other things than damage though. We can only go so far with "and THIS boss does a thing that you move out of or you take damage, but it's a different color than the last boss that did the exact same thing."

I wholly agree with this post, especially the first sentence.

BY NO MEANS IS THIS THREAD MEANT TO DEFEND STANDING IN FIRE OR NERF IT TO THE GROUND.
It is to change the way baddies think to make them change, which is not a nerf.

[angelx7x]

Not EVERY fire would have this, because not all of them are avoidable. You can avoid most sound waves on Atramedes, and you can avoid his fire breath. Getting hit by those could reduce your dps output. Getting hit by Waterlogged is random, and unavoidable, so it wouldn't apply to those. its not a computer judging what is and is not avoidable or how many ticks are acceptable and unacceptable. Blizz makes those decisions and implements them accordingly.

actually you can avoid waterlogged if you're not bad >.> since you can actually watch where the water bombs are landing

[Abandon]

Hey did anyone mention that dieing hurts your performance yet?

Actually, only the tick that kills you hurts your performance. If you are a terrible player standing in a patch of fire and not bothering to move, and getting spam healed by a frantic healer, you can completely ignore it.

[drake741]

While I agree on that getting your Threat/HPS/DPS decreased while standing in sh*t would reduce the numbers of bad players by far, I also think it's the wrong way of approaching it. If you get a stat penalty while standing in fire, you would only move out of the fire to help yourself. If you don't notice a decrease in the numbers you are putting out while getting your spine burnt to a crisp, you don't give a rat's tail about the rest of the group.

Raiding is a team sport, and those not understanding that shouldn't be raiding at all.

Yes, I totally get that. I also said that peopel who DO stand in fire are usually unaware, bad, selfish, or some combination of those. By addressing those qualities, you can get them to change how they interact with the team, leading to better players/success rates.

[Pappahealar]

So you basically mean like standing in fire gives you a debuff for let's say 10 seconds. Maybe 5 is enough though.

"You are burned and panicking, therefor your damage and healing is reduced by 100%"
It would certainly help the really bad players to not be so bad. It would also be quite easy for Blizzard to implement. Although it seems kind of retarded somehow, burning and eventually dying from it would seem enough.

But if you could give blizzard enough reasons to implement it maybe they will! :P But I doubt they would care about it since it doesn't affect enough of the playerbase.

[drake741]

actually you can avoid waterlogged if you're not bad >.> since you can actually watch where the water bombs are landing

Admittedly a poor example, but hopefully someone at least gets what I am after. So many smartasses in this thread... what was I thinking?

[leaks]

Hey did anyone mention that dieing hurts your performance yet?

Actually, only the tick that kills you hurts your performance. If you are a terrible player standing in a patch of fire and not bothering to move, and getting spam healed by a frantic healer, you can completely ignore it.

wow thanks for clearing that up......