Thread: 7th Tick VT

  1. #1

    7th Tick VT

    I've always shot for 1269 haste for the 6th tick VT, but as I am somewhat better geared now, I'd thought I'd look into higher tier breakpoints. Any Spriests happen to know the 7th tick VT?
    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Bringing movement at refresh points, variable Mind Blast casts, Mind flay ticks, not to mention Shadow Word: Pain and Devouring Plague ticks, you shouldn't be "shooting for" any number of Haste, unless that number is "as much as you can get without sacrificing Intellect to get there".

    Yes. Your DPS goes up when you reach an extra tick, but that doesn't stop it from staying your best stat even when you can't reach the next one.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-05-09 at 06:00 PM.
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  3. #3
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    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...by-Newnoise%29

    Haste thresholds in that guide. However as Kelesti said, haste is your god stat pretty much, only surpassed by raw intellect. Haste is a much better secondary stat than the others by a fair margin. Just get as much as you can.

  4. #4
    Thank you for the replies

  5. #5
    Actually you do hit a plateau at a certain amount of haste where Crit/Mastery become a larger dps increase. Id have to pull up the reference which ill do tomorrow sometime but haste is best to a point then u need to bring up other stats to start seeing sizable dps increase

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    Actually you do hit a plateau at a certain amount of haste where Crit/Mastery become a larger dps increase. Id have to pull up the reference which ill do tomorrow sometime but haste is best to a point then u need to bring up other stats to start seeing sizable dps increase
    That level of haste is not achievable in the current tier of gear.

  7. #7
    The idea of getting an extra tick on a DoT is an old concept no longer applicable to Cata. Before Cata, if you refreshed a DoT before it expired, it would reset the damage tick timer, so we would always let a DoT expire to get the final tick before recasting it.

    Now, refreshing a DoT early does not affect the damage tick timer; it only extends the duration of the DoT so now we always refresh a DoT before it expires to not lose any ticks. Functionally, on any boss fight, our VT should be one continuous DoT on the target for the entire encounter.

    If you think about it as one continous DoT, you can see how haste will continue to scale linearly for our DoTs. I believe there would be a haste plateau when you can reach a 4th tick of MF, but if I remember correctly, that haste level is not achievable currently.

    Just to be complete, for MF, haste does shorten MF duration; MF ends whenever the 3rd tick is done so the more haste, the shorter the MF until you reach enough haste to get a 4th tick.

  8. #8
    if you are still under the guise that there is a 'haste plateau' you fails keep talking about, please just go to shadowpriest.com and ignore everything you read here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiago View Post
    I'll take a full glass and drink it entirely. Don't drink half of your drink thinking it will make something better.

  9. #9
    7th tick is at 2589 (without DI, with shadowform and darkness)

    Whilst obtaining it certainly isn't a holy grail it IS a DPS increase on most encounters. Haste makes your dots tick faster and reduces their duration because of this, gaining an extra tick snaps the duration back to maximum, this means you cast the dot less giving you more time to do other things. Haste will always be your best 2ndary stat (assuming you aren't wearing some completely ridiculous unbalanced gear set) but at certain points it becomes more or less of an increase over other stats. If you were on 2580haste for example then the chances are simcraft will be telling you the value of haste will be very very high, since gaining the extra points will be a larger DPS increase than going from say... 2300 to 2310 (random numbers) although haste would likely still be above crit/mastery.

    Also, needless to say having a longer duration on VT is even better in situations where you can multidot (something simcraft doesn't model), more VTs rolling the better is it that they last longer.

    next question: what's the next haste value a dot gains a tick after VTs 7th?
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    7th tick is at 2589 (without DI, with shadowform and darkness)

    Whilst obtaining it certainly isn't a holy grail it IS a DPS increase on most encounters. Haste makes your dots tick faster and reduces their duration because of this, gaining an extra tick snaps the duration back to maximum, this means you cast the dot less giving you more time to do other things. Haste will always be your best 2ndary stat (assuming you aren't wearing some completely ridiculous unbalanced gear set) but at certain points it becomes more or less of an increase over other stats. If you were on 2580haste for example then the chances are simcraft will be telling you the value of haste will be very very high, since gaining the extra points will be a larger DPS increase than going from say... 2300 to 2310 (random numbers) although haste would likely still be above crit/mastery.

    Also, needless to say having a longer duration on VT is even better in situations where you can multidot (something simcraft doesn't model), more VTs rolling the better is it that they last longer.

    next question: what's the next haste value a dot gains a tick after VTs 7th?
    How can people still be endorsing the idea of a haste plateau?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cruxxy View Post
    How can people still be endorsing the idea of a haste plateau?
    How can someone that asks this question be completely wrong about DoT mechanics like in that post you just deleted? =P
    Also, Blizz' plan for MF to gain additional ticks at certain points of haste was scrapped before Cata release and I don't even think it made it to Beta.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cruxxy View Post
    How can people still be endorsing the idea of a haste plateau?
    I dunno, I don't see anyone in this thread endorsing the idea of a haste plateau.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  13. #13
    I apologize if I gave the impression that i was looking for that 'magic haste value', to the exclusion of all other secondary stats. I was merely spending hours on end wearing out the training dummies, and thought it would simply be easier to ask the resident pros. I am actually just looking to eek out any possible small improvement, and haste seemed the obvious choice. I will post a seperate thread on the subject of 'any other suggestions?', since it would not be related to only haste values.

    Thank you again for your time and advice.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    7th tick is at 2589 (without DI, with shadowform and darkness)

    Whilst obtaining it certainly isn't a holy grail it IS a DPS increase on most encounters.

    next question: what's the next haste value a dot gains a tick after VTs 7th?
    I would easily read these as endorsements of haste plateaus - the idea of reaching a specific level of haste as a goal to optimize DPS. This remains a common misconception.

    And I'll stop since the OP is sated.

  15. #15
    I donot endorse any website who says its cool to be below 17% haste cuz its definitely a Massive dps loss to miss a 100k Mindblast at any point.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    I donot endorse any website who says its cool to be below 17% haste cuz its definitely a Massive dps loss to miss a 100k Mindblast at any point.
    You mean hit right?

    Because Mind Blast is such a HUGE part of our damage right? I'll take missing 1 in every 50 MB for a ~2% haste increase on all my dots.

    As a footnote, a setup I had when swapping gear around was at 2588 haste rating, showed up as 30.01% Haste, BUT still only gave 6 VT ticks... stupid rounding.
    Last edited by Solia; 2011-05-10 at 03:06 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Milkshake86 View Post
    I donot endorse any website who says its cool to be below 17% haste cuz its definitely a Massive dps loss to miss a 100k Mindblast at any point.
    I cannot "endorse" any person who says they gear because they just feel it's better, without testing of any kind.

  18. #18
    We honestly just need a statement on the this forum as whole to disregard Milshake86... I haven't seen him state anything correct or post any evidence that the things he states are correct (yes, when you are disagreeing with proven and accepted methods the burden of proof is on you).

    Also, I think there might have been a slight misreading of Redsparrow's post. Seemed to me he was just answering the OP's question about what the number for a 7th tick on VT was. He goes on to explain while at certain levels haste is slightly more of a bonus than at others haste is always your best secondary stat, which is less of a haste plateau endorsement and more of an honest statement of how haste works for us. Anywho, that is how I read what he meant

  19. #19
    TLR this thread...

    get more haste.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestlyone View Post
    That level of haste is not achievable in the current tier of gear.
    Thats right, but only partly.
    It is currently possible to achieve 49,11% haste before procs. You loose large amounts of int, mastery, crit and hell knows what else by doing so.
    Hurricane, Heroism and other procs add further haste so it is possible to add that 7th tick to at least some of your VEs.

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