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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Maginai View Post
    In all honesty, I think that the 600k lost subscribers are botters or gold farmers who got ip banned or something. Either that or those people use to play WoW and now play Rift. I'd probably at least try Rift if they would actually let new users TRY their product first before committing to a purchase and subscription. Blizzard has a trial for WoW so why isn't there a trial for Rift, a competing product/service?
    They do regularly give away weekend keys that enables people to try the game over a weekend.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoeii View Post
    I have strong doubts that the amount will be much higher.
    It probably isn't but to say 4 million just based on the first month of Cata sales is still flawed, that's all I'm pointing out.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntamer View Post
    The players are rarely right.. Just cause you play the game don't mean you know how it should be ran.
    On the contrary, people who play the game every day for 6 years know a hell of a lot more about playing the game than the developers. The developers are good at designing a game and have a reasonable grasp of playing but compared with the sheer amount of the combined experience in playing the game by the massive player base, they know very little.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiro View Post
    No, the biggest thing is that Blizzard failed on numerous levels, not gold farmers. There's no way to dolly this up at all, we all know better. They screwed up royally. They made some incredibly stupid moves with Wrath, and then into Cata especially. Content is weak, due to them absolutely wasting their time and money on 1-60 content. They didn't live up to their once again failed promise of "more content faster this time guys lol, we swear, lol", and players are not blind to it this time and leaving ship in mass. The game is in direct, and significant trouble right now, and with the lack-luster 4.2 months off, there's nothing in sight to save it. Blizzard has to sit there and watch their game burn. It'll take months for them to recover now for their follies of pulling their best talent and putting them on another project, and using the revenues from WoW to fund all their other projects while putting an apparent minimum of it back into their golden cow. The game will continue to bleed subscribers now at this point. Sending out that week free trial to people who canceled their accounts is a sign they know they're in trouble.
    Why do you hate WoW so much and why do you think WoW is going to burn or die? There are games that are plenty older than WoW that are still running like Ultima Online and even the original Everquest (barring the SOE hack). WoW isn't going to die but I don't expect it to stay #1 which honestly isn't a big deal to me, as long as WoW is running that's all I really care about.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowflay View Post
    If they stopped fucking around with buffing classes and giving them fotm for few months and actually fixing the game they would have some subscribers left
    This.

    It's not hard to balance the game.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    I still lurk the forms like many WOW gamers who no longer play. However, the difference is blizzard just sent me a free 7 day pass to come back and I still have no interest given the content that was just released.

    To me that's just not a good sign for WOW. A game I had so much time invested in over 6+ years, was recently given a free 7 day pass and I see no reason to come back. Even for free.

    Guess I really am done with WOW.
    Exactly the same for me. Reading about the latest retarded changes they made to the game made me not even wanting to use the free 7 days.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who dont.

  7. #407
    Well what do they expect, everyone's beaten the current content, they'll get like half those players back after the next patch. At least until they clear those hurdles.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Galvanon View Post
    Wrong, it is a big deal.

    Shareholders only want to see profits go up. Doesn't matter if they still have blah blah subs. A loss is a loss and it's noted.

    Sorry, but if I was a major shareholder and you came at me with that speech as to why I shouldn't
    consider moving my money elsewhere, I would consider you in panic mode.
    I agree with your statement in terms of shareholders. When I hear that blizz has lost 400k subs 5 months after a BRAND new expansion... That makes me want to do a JIm Kramer and SELL SELL SELL... LoL... If I was a developer I would be taking this pretty hard.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Golemstw View Post
    Keep in mind ZA and ZG are RECYCLED !!!! TOTAL MONEY RIPOFF
    How much did you pay for 4.1? Mine was free.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    How much did you pay for 4.1? Mine was free.
    Wow. Mine cost me $15.00 month. I want your payment plan.

  11. #411
    Brewmaster Neganova's Avatar
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    People are complaining that WoW is dying, but 11.4 million people is still a lot of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazia View Post
    Your mom is so fat shes the reason blizzard made a limit on mage food.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    If words bother you that much perhaps you should try being amish so you can avoid them.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by daburton View Post
    Wow. Mine cost me $15.00 month. I want your payment plan.
    Woah! You are paying for patches? Because mine money going to let me raiding BWD and BoT

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Raptoos View Post
    Woah! You are paying for patches? Because mine money going to let me raiding BWD and BoT
    Wow and I thought I had it bad. I got that content when I shelled out the $40 bucks for the xpac.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Neganova View Post
    People are complaining that WoW is dying, but 11.4 million people is still a lot of people.
    I dont think ppl are saying WOW is dying. They are pointing out there are real issues and when you read whats BLizz is actually saying right now.. they really have a reason to be very conserned.

    600.000 subs is alot. Its a Huuuge amount considering that it is not lowering the maintainance cost of the game at all. It is gonna hit the design of the game directly.

    I want to remind everyone that thinks 600.000 subs is just a small amount... that one of the greatest UNIQE design gaming project of all times - Eve online has been designed - maintained and is releasing free expansions for years with just 300.000 subs. See .... Blizzard just lost twice that amount of innovative design money to REALLY keep WOW going forward. They ignored it ... and they are paying the full price.

    There is no wonder that we are seeing huge amount of previews of 4.2 and stuff coming from blues atm. And neither is it strange we are seeing another store mount ... They are trying their best to create a hype.... But its to late now. More and more ppl will unsub over the summer - Firelands will probably launch August - and Then we are in for the big game releases later this year. PPL will think twice before paying sub for playing 4-5 days a week for 3-4 hours per night considering that other time consuming games are launching as well.

    Firelands will not save WOW.... It is cheap in terms of raid content. It has 7 bosses that need to be stretched out for probably 6-7 months for big % of the playerbase and thats simply not enough. Blizzard has lost alot of ppl for diffrent reasons during Cata - and the fact is that many of them will be gone for good in this expansion. Game has grown to stagnant over the past 2 years and thats not acceptable considering the huge playerbase. And 600.000 is a huge number... Even in a game played by millions.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2011-05-10 at 11:14 PM.

  15. #415
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogard64 View Post
    talk about DUH!!!
    Are these guys that clueless? It really does seem like the real DEVs are all gone and working on something else now..... Titan?
    I think that's stretching it, a tad. It's not unheard of (read: it's common) for businesses to "rebrand" or "re-image" themselves. I see WoW as having gone through several of these periods.

    Anyway.

    Two things that came up in this thread resonated with me. The first was a comment about hardmodes. I think (and this is just my thought, I have no factual basis to back up my suspicion) that the majority of players are disappointed in hardmodes or have little drive to complete them. In Ulduar (when they were introduced) the heroic modes were inventive and often required special activation. The response was good. You didn't have to kill Yogg Saron to take on XT's heroic mode. In Icecrown they got substantially lazier and made heroic modes toggle-able by a player who had killed the Lich King. Kinda lame, considering that plenty of guilds that were stuck on the Lich King for a while could easily have taken on heroic Marrowgar/etc for farming better gear. But something of value was lost--variety.

    Yes, variety. Now, instead of new items from heroic modes, we get the same loot tables, just with slightly better stats. Boring. On that note, where are the interesting proc-based weapons like Nibelung that devs said they wanted to include more of, going forward? Sure, we got Meteor Shard (heroic 346 dagger) but it's inferior to the other daggers at that level and breaks CC.


    The other point that was briefly brought up and I have harped upon time and time again in various threads is the status of PvP and PvE in WoW. The developers try to please both PvPers and PvEers while still maintaining that they are the "same game" (Spoiler alert: THEY'RE NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN) when really all the PvPers and PvEers want, at the core of their requests, is for the two game styles to be balanced separately from one-another. Sure, they've finally started caving (with cc, warrior change, etc) but I feel like it's going to come too late when they finally bite the bullet (if ever) and just balance them separately. PvP and PvE are not the same game in WoW. They never have been. Even in PvP, arenas vs bgs vs "world pvp" are all three distinct types of play that require different things. To say otherwise is either naive or convenient (for lack of development resources). The constant tweaking of one to change the other, as well as, plain and simple, vast class homogenization, has hurt WoW in the long run and regularly confuses and confounds players who don't spend their time outside wow researching specs/throughputs/patch notes/whatever. My friend plays and I teach her things about her classes regularly, but it always upsets her (she's not a very good player, but she tries) to have to relearn her class on the more drastic changes.


    Those are the two issues I believe are core in current game discontent. Raid difficulty (and creativity), and game balance. I don't think it has to do with "recycled" or "revamped" content--because let's face it, none of us liked leveling alts through 1-60 pre cata. At least now it's fast and, sometimes, fun.

    Where I do agree with Nogard is in the observation that WoW lacks consistency in its development.
    Last edited by Shambulanced; 2011-05-10 at 11:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Let's start by no longer calling everybody that disagrees with us (everybody on both sides and the middle of the discussion) a troll. <3
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    First there were forum posts about people who were quitting.

    Now, there will be forum posts about statistics showing people who were quitting.

    And you know there will be forum posts about those forum posts showing statistics about people who were quitting, proving/disproving them and such.

    Oh, the humanity.
    anyone else praying that the staff wont stay as is as a legendary. it would be flat out disappointing to find that it has no special ability outside of vanity

  17. #417
    maybe they should stop rehashing old content because it obviously didnt appeal to a lot of people

  18. #418
    Patch 3.0.2 - 10/2008
    Patch 3.1 - 04/2009 (6 months; 1 raid with 13 bosses)
    Patch 3.2 - 08/2009 (4 months; 1 raid with 5 bosses, 1 dungeon with 3 bosses)
    Patch 3.3 - 12/2009 (4 months; 1 raid with 12 bosses, 3 dungeons with 8 bosses)
    Patch 3.3.5 - 06/2010 (6 months; 1 raid with 1 boss, 3 mini-bosses)
    Patch 4.0.1 - 10/2010 (4 months, 10 months if you don't count Ruby Sanctum fake content-patch)
    Patch 4.1 - 05/2011 /7 months, 2 dungeons)

    Faster content? I call shenanigans! Oh, and for those not aware WoW-3.0.2 had more content available (raids/dungeons) than WoW-4.0.1. In fact, this revamp'd dungeons we got in 4.1 are just to bring the content up to WoTLK launch levels... 7 months after. You understand why people are leaving now?

    Edit: Typo on a date.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I think that's stretching it, a tad. It's not unheard of (read: it's common) for businesses to "rebrand" or "re-image" themselves. I see WoW as having gone through several of these periods.

    Anyway.

    Two things that came up in this thread resonated with me. The first was a comment about hardmodes. I think (and this is just my thought, I have no factual basis to back up my suspicion) that the majority of players are disappointed in hardmodes or have little drive to complete them. In Ulduar (when they were introduced) the heroic modes were inventive and often required special activation. The response was good. You didn't have to kill Yogg Saron to take on XT's heroic mode. In Icecrown they got substantially lazier and made heroic modes toggle-able by a player who had killed the Lich King. Kinda lame, considering that plenty of guilds that were stuck on the Lich King for a while could easily have taken on heroic Marrowgar/etc for farming better gear. But something of value was lost--variety.

    Yes, variety. Now, instead of new items from heroic modes, we get the same loot tables, just with slightly better stats. Boring. On that note, where are the interesting proc-based weapons like Nibelung that devs said they wanted to include more of, going forward? Sure, we got Meteor Shard (heroic 346 dagger) but it's inferior to the other daggers at that level and breaks CC.


    The other point that was briefly brought up and I have harped upon time and time again in various threads is the status of PvP and PvE in WoW. The developers try to please both PvPers and PvEers while still maintaining that they are the "same game" (Spoiler alert: THEY'RE NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN) when really all the PvPers and PvEers want, at the core of their requests, is for the two game styles to be balanced separately from one-another. Sure, they've finally started caving (with cc, warrior change, etc) but I feel like it's going to come too late when they finally bite the bullet (if ever) and just balance them separately. PvP and PvE are not the same game in WoW. They never have been. Even in PvP, arenas vs bgs vs "world pvp" are all three distinct types of play that require different things. To say otherwise is either naive or convenient (for lack of development resources).


    Those are the two issues I believe are core in current game discontent. Raid difficulty (and creativity), and game balance. I don't think it has to do with "recycled" or "revamped" content--because let's face it, none of us liked leveling alts through 1-60 pre cata. At least now it's fast and, sometimes, fun.

    Where I do agree with Nogard is in the observation that WoW lacks consistency in its development.
    I think most ppl that follow the buisness model of WOW know why they are intrested in adding a proc based fluffy stuff ingame. It doesn't add stats and it can be bought in Store... Sound like perfect fluff to sell....

    I do agree with you on hard modes. ATM BLizzard is forcing ppl to do heroic raiding. Big % of players dont like hard modes at all. Even if they add extra itemlvl for it. Its just not intresting. So what can Blizzard learn from it ? Alot - but are they ? I doubt it .. they seem to think they have stumbled upon the greatest idea to make raiding content (acording to themselfs) when all the numbers point to exactly the oposite. I doubt they will be changing this model at all... They might even take it further and add 3rd lvl to it rather than go back. That is scary tho...

    Your points about PVP and PVE are correct. The game has always been affected by the two sides. It will always be like that. But right now BLizzard is creating another very simulare fight.... Fight between the Heroic raiders ... and the normal raiders. Just like with PVP and PVE - this fight can not be won with current design phylosophy. 1% of loudmouths will continue to shout that the content is to easy... and most normal players will just quit quetly...

    Blizzard would like us to think that those 1-2% of the player base that have finished heroic raiding are those that have unsubed for now. But we know its not those ppl that have left... the are very much content with the game as it is... they are unique and are probably raiding with their alts.

    Those that actually have left were not happy with the game in its current state. Nothing coming in the next 3-8 months is really gonna change to make those ppl more content. 7 bosses tuned for those done with heroic raiding ? Nah.. normal players will not come back for that. Weeks of daily quests worth 1 -2 purples (specially for tanks it seems)? Nope they will not be back for that.

    Blizzard just got it horribly wrong. But it didn't happen in last 2-4 months.... It happened 2-3 years ago when BLizzard desided to starve WOW of any real innovation in terms of design - and moved it over to TITAN.

    PPL know now what is in store for WOW. There really is no point spending next 2-3 years in this game doing the same things in a stagnant game. And players are realising it now - and thankfully - have desided to let the wallet do the talking.

    Question is.. who will be buying the orginal game + the 3 expansions and paying a sub ... knowing the game is not really in full development any more ? Noone really... We are talking about a Hello Kitty project right now and the game could go downhill really really fast. Going from the best!! - to the most lame thing ever in matter of few months.

    Firelands will not change that...
    Last edited by Duster505; 2011-05-10 at 11:43 PM.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitus View Post
    On the contrary, people who play the game every day for 6 years know a hell of a lot more about playing the game than the developers. The developers are good at designing a game and have a reasonable grasp of playing but compared with the sheer amount of the combined experience in playing the game by the massive player base, they know very little.
    The designers know their game much better than you do. They also play it much more often than you do.

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