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  1. #81
    I dont click lightwells when they put them in the other corner of the room. Simply ridiculous. If they're near by I'll clickem but I wont go out of my way for one.
    "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not. Remember that what you have now was once among the things you hoped for." -Epicurus

  2. #82
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wablakin View Post
    Don't bother when you obviously have nothing useful to say, else you wouldn't resort to ad hominem. Lightwell is not bad, players are. You obviously defend crappy players because clicking a lightwell somehow is bad mechanics and/or hard to do.

    Someone failing at something as simple as clicking a lightwell is a bad player, no matter how much dps they do.

    edit: This is from a raid standpoint, not a PUG ofcourse.
    Just to pop in a thought here:
    Humans have a finite amount of attention the divvy up amongst all the things demanding it. Attention to click a lightwell comes out of that pool, as does the attention to stand in HR or not stand in fire, etc. However, the attention needed to locate yourself inside a colored circle or outside of an angry-looking patch of fire is fairly little - it utilizes simpler parts of the brain. Clicking something requires locating, identifying your own health deficit, and clicking the lightwell.

    I'm not saying that's hard, or necessarily a burden on players. However, it is a non-trivial amount of attention to spare.

    Now, what about that makes it a bad mechanic?

    Some encounters will tax players to their limits. In those encounters, if a significant portion of a holy priest's ability to heal costs those players attention they require, then is it actually producing anything useful? If your DPS click and lose uptime, end up missing this or that, etc.?

    Basically, it requires a finite resource that other heals do not, and it's a resource which can lead to some pretty nasty things.
    You can't tell a person "pay more attention!" because it's more or less intrinsic to the individual's brain. You would have to recruit new people and figure out how to even tell if they've got a problem with it, which they might not until a particularly hairy bit of RNG.

    The upside is that the healer's attention limits can be alleviated slightly by the lightwell. Whether that's a net positive or negative depends on your raid.

  3. #83
    I am Murloc! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    I'm there to keep people alive, lightwell goes down, if they don't use it I'll still heal them. If they die because my throughput wasn't enough/i went oom and they didn't use lightwell that's their fault, if they lived then I get loot.
    A-fucking-men. Quit being so sensative, people.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Tell them, and if they don't - don't heal them... Pretty simple.
    Yup, pretty simple. Just tell them that they will die if you dont see them using it.

  5. #85
    High Overlord Montao's Avatar
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    If you dont wanna get "aggro" from the other players, just go and roll a resto shammy, awesome group/raid healing, no drama, lots of buffs, BL, etc....GL

  6. #86
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I click it when I see it, however in raids i find myself clicking on someone else or a useless add I should not be killing so i end up wasting like 5 secs of dps time

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by rabbimojo View Post
    Just to pop in a thought here:
    Humans have a finite amount of attention the divvy up amongst all the things demanding it. Attention to click a lightwell comes out of that pool, as does the attention to stand in HR or not stand in fire, etc. However, the attention needed to locate yourself inside a colored circle or outside of an angry-looking patch of fire is fairly little - it utilizes simpler parts of the brain. Clicking something requires locating, identifying your own health deficit, and clicking the lightwell.

    I'm not saying that's hard, or necessarily a burden on players. However, it is a non-trivial amount of attention to spare.

    Now, what about that makes it a bad mechanic?

    Some encounters will tax players to their limits. In those encounters, if a significant portion of a holy priest's ability to heal costs those players attention they require, then is it actually producing anything useful? If your DPS click and lose uptime, end up missing this or that, etc.?

    Basically, it requires a finite resource that other heals do not, and it's a resource which can lead to some pretty nasty things.
    You can't tell a person "pay more attention!" because it's more or less intrinsic to the individual's brain. You would have to recruit new people and figure out how to even tell if they've got a problem with it, which they might not until a particularly hairy bit of RNG.

    The upside is that the healer's attention limits can be alleviated slightly by the lightwell. Whether that's a net positive or negative depends on your raid.
    If I, as a healer manage to keep everyone alive, click the LW, dodge the fire while raid leading the DPS have absolutly nothing to complain about. Their job is to DPS, interrupt if needed, move out of fire, click the LW when required and so on. Clicking a LW takes 0.5s if you are in range and know where it is located (which you should know, it's part of your job as DPS).

    edit: While progressing hard(er) fights it is real damn important to help the healers out by moving out of fire and clicking the damn LW, forcing us to blow more mana than necessary will end up in OOM and a wipe (has happend several times due to crazy mana requirements and people taking more dmg than necessary).
    Last edited by Wablakin; 2011-05-17 at 05:57 PM.
    Tenser @ EU-Auchindoun
    Officer of <WTFlux> 2-day-weekend-raiding-guild, T14: 8/16HC, T15: 2/13H
    Warlock POV - streaming raids on sat/sun 10am-2pm GMT+1

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by ruke View Post
    So today I got told in a heroic that instead of telling the people to use the Lightwell to do my job and heal. This is a moment where I'd love to see that person face to face so he can see me laughing at how unbelievable ignorant und stupid he is.

    But now my question: How to handle the insane amount of dumb people when trying to teach them a proper Lightwell usage? Just let them die?


    Btw, it was at Lord Walden in SFK - in my opinion a perfect boss to use a Lightwell: Small room (probably can hit the Lightwell from everywhere in the room when placed in the middle) and regular aoe, some running involved.
    I want to remind EVERYONE this thread is about the fine art of PUGGING!

    Not progress raiding - as some of you fail to see.

    In raiding you are blessed with ppl who CAN play and NEED to press the LW in certain situations.

    Dont make drama about raiding with LW. Thats a given.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    And tbh "we dont heal people standing in the fire do we?"

    I freaking hope you do! Otherwise your an arrogant lazy sad sad kind of healer. Your job is to make sure people stay alive. Whatever way you can.

    Just as the tanks job is to keep aggro, the dps job is to get the mobs down.

    You dont hear a mage saying " i dont wanna kill the mob hitting the healer, cause he was standing too close to the spawn spot" do you? :P
    Man, now we're bad healers for carrying the mistakes of other people. Look dude, I try to keep my groups alive as much as I can. But when people start dying because I go oom because I have to power heal through their mistakes like standing in fire, and then they blame me for being bad, that's where I draw the line.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    Why on EARTH should the dps adapt to a priest healer in pugs??

    In raids - ok its viable (sometimes), but remember this - The players get a priest healer 1/5 of the time they do a pug. Why should they change their play style? They have one job - to kill the mob. They dont care where the heals are comming from. They just do THEIR jobs. You stick to YOUR job and stop bickering. I heal as holy and do FINE without the LW. All other healer classes than holy priests just heal their group - thats it.

    You cant expect people to adapt to you, when the last 3 hc has been with a druid and 2 shammys healers. They dont change playstyle for you. Why should they?

    And tbh "we dont heal people standing in the fire do we?"

    I freaking hope you do! Otherwise your an arrogant lazy sad sad kind of healer. Your job is to make sure people stay alive. Whatever way you can.

    Just as the tanks job is to keep aggro, the dps job is to get the mobs down.

    You dont hear a mage saying " i dont wanna kill the mob hitting the healer, cause he was standing too close to the spawn spot" do you? :P
    I give people one chance, they stand in fire and if I have to pull them out with Leap of Faith then fine that's their one chance, they keep doing it, yes I will let them die, if they're too stupid to move out of the bad stuff and still maintain their DPS then yes it is their fault. I have been known to take a dip in the fire if PoM is me.

    BTW on topic, yes I do expect PuGs to use the lightwell if I'm healing as Holy, why shouldn't they? It's a great heal to use, I know many tanks that use it and since now you don't have to stop casting to actually click the lightwell, there is no excuse for DPS to not use it when it's down, I have had PuGs that use it and those have been my easiest healing instances, the ones that don't I just bug the living crap out of them and either they leave (no big deal) or they get annoyed the whole instance.. no skin off my back

  11. #91
    Don't expect people to use the lightwell, put it down and if they do great, but letting people die because they don't use it is arrogant and lazy, and quite frankly indicates more about the quality of your play than it does theirs. Treat lightwell as something that is great if people use, but don't expect them to. If you have a warlock in your group a healer could say, "no one gets healed til they've used their healthstone". I could refuse to heal any druid during AoE phases who didn't pop barkskin. Quite frankly, if you are going to let everyone die who doesn't play perfectly in your opinion, why do you even play this game? I actually take it as a challenge to keep bad players alive when they do stupid stuff. I'm not here to teach anyone lessons or be judge and jury about how competent a player others are. If I enter a dungeon, my job and my fun comes from completing it as quickly and efficiently as possible and keeping EVERYONE alive makes that happen.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    I want to remind EVERYONE this thread is about the fine art of PUGGING!

    Not progress raiding - as some of you fail to see.

    In raiding you are blessed with ppl who CAN play and NEED to press the LW in certain situations.

    Dont make drama about raiding with LW. Thats a given.
    Fine. If I for some reason run RHC with randoms I never use LW because people suck and I need to carry them and since I overgear the instance it's no problem. If I for some reason get decent people I just smite spam and we win without even trying. I refuse to run ZA/ZG with randoms because no matter how high my throughput is, their fuckups will make sure I won't be able to keep them up.

    I never have nor will rely on randoms clicking my LW because I'm more than happy if they just do more than 6k dps and don't fucking die on trash packs, the fire, the black hole and every other stupid shit they can find.
    Tenser @ EU-Auchindoun
    Officer of <WTFlux> 2-day-weekend-raiding-guild, T14: 8/16HC, T15: 2/13H
    Warlock POV - streaming raids on sat/sun 10am-2pm GMT+1

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    They have one job - to kill the mob. They dont care where the heals are comming from. They just do THEIR jobs. You stick to YOUR job and stop bickering.
    If you think the DPS's only job is to kill mobs then you are doing it wrong. Dead DPS = Zero DPS. Everyone has a responsibility to do everything in there power to get the boss/trash down. Than can mean interrupts, not standing in the bad stuff, Not standing in the cleave zone and yes tossing in a self heal, pot, bandage, Warlock Cookie, Threat Reduction spell/ability, snare, CC, and yes, clicking on the lightwell, or standing in the healing rain, or the druid healing ground aoe thing.

    Using all the tools provided to you as a dps does not make the priest healer with LW lazy, if just makes you a better team player. This is not a solo game, it is a team game, take .01 second to click on the lightwell and people will like you better.

    I need to make up a clever marco like the ones I have seen here in this thread.... :-)
    "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil."
    -John Galt

  14. #94
    Only problems we have with lightwell and healing rains are where they're cast.

  15. #95
    well , ppl need some motivation to click on lightwell , that's why in my guild we started a new "Game" , "Lightwell Awards" , the rules are simple , i will just copy-paste:
    "-the guy who is top healing done from lightwell will recive 1k gold after each raid. P.S. the overheal will not be counted , so be smart when u click on lightwell;
    -the same player will get the prize only 3 times for the same boss, and ofc we dont play this "game" on bosses that we allready killed."

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