Really dps?? Really?

[Rendandtear]

In a 5 man with the 15% buff, I could probably do at least 7k DPS just white hits. Now doing my full rotation, I usually end up anywhere from 22k to 27k. The point here is ... You're meant to have to at least TRY to clear the dungeon, even as a DPS. If you're just auto attacking and get killed then complain to blizz that you need a buff ... well, you're just a retard.

[Jawden]

The lfd groups are bad...very bad. From a dps perspective i have to wait 30+ minutes to watch people pull 8k on bosses that they should be pulling 20+ on.

Bloodlord Mandakir for ex.

I was just in a group where i popped time warp and started doing over 30k dps, the rest of the group was hovering around 13k. the tank had a hard time keeping aggro even though he was 350 ilvl. People should learn to play their classes there is no excuse for this.

[Rendandtear]

Got this happen to me lots of times aswell. On all three rolles. But usually i just cope if i recon we will manage or leave if its unrealistic to complete the dungeon in next 2 hours. What sets me off is when i play ok and the 2-3 guildies that are the biggest cra* in the world (cant do anything right), talk to me what to do and how i suck. I know they just want to screw with some one since their new hair down bellow are itchy. But still... sets me of big time.

Was thinking that maybe it would be a good idea to make roll benchmarks. Like a solo dungeon, that you have to complete in certain amount of time or whatever to be eligible to queue to randoms. Eg. tanks would have to get to the end of the gauntlet by pulling mobs, controling them by pulling them to sides where they drop off, interrupting on occasion, saving some random nps and such. If they manage to do that by not getting overrun/under certain amount of time or just simply checked on everything, then no go for queue in LFD. Similar gauntlet for DPS and healers. DPS need to kill so many mobs in certain ammount of time, not pull mobs while still dpsing, ccing and so forth, while healers would need to keep npc's up, save them in a heat of batlle, keep themselfs up by kiting while healing, i dont know, the usuall. You could make it more times to better the result, and you are forced to do it when your ilvl changes so that you can queue in next tier (old heroics and zandalrai ones).
This would eliminate the really bad players from queues but still wouldnt solve the moral issue when someone is screwing with you on purpose. But hey, you cant have it all.

They have that implemented already btw. It's called the trash leading to the first boss.

[Acousticferret]

Cuz the CtA never attracts bad tanks who want free loot bag.............ever. Works both ways bud. Us good dps get terrible tanks allllllll day long.

[theredviola]

On another note: people are GENERALLY really bad at this game nowdays and most of it happened after WotLK was released when all the new things were introduced. Heirlooms, dungeon finder, easy raid and dungeon tactics (if any at all) and more. Everything turned so noob-friendly and they can't get used to the standards that once were, and are starting to become once more.

This. That and that good players know that the quality of the general gamer has gotten so low, that the good players no longer really care and just troll the hell out of groups. By doing this like white hitting, over healing, etc. There's no incentive to play your role anymore. Don't say gear, because that dkp DK in your group just ninja'd your tanking gear mr. tank because he's "off spec tank" he "deserves it just as much" as you but he "didn't feel like tanking."

There's no punishment for being bad, or being an ass, or just being a troll. And there's no incentive to play your class properly when 4/9/24 other people can carry baddies through. Sorry to be such a cynic. I've tried for so long not to perpetuate that "this game is turning to crap fast," but after the past few months of dealing with exactly what the OP described along with what other have described... I can't help but feel this way. Call it learned helplessness or a herd effect, but really the truth is in the numbers (Blizz's last quarterly report).

Honestly, I do hope things get better, but I'm not holding my breath. Instead of doing dailies, or leveling alts, I now spend most afternoons trying to find a new game to get into as I know my time in WoW is now limited.

[Jawden]

Cuz the CtA never attracts bad tanks who want free loot bag.............ever. Works both ways bud. Us good dps get terrible tanks allllllll day long.

We really do, let's go on strike.

[Deleted]

I started out as a tank at the beginning of Cata, then took a break from Jan-well.. until now. But here's the thing, I've still got most of my gear as tank gear (though with Str gems), no enchants or anything since I'm literally back not two days on my Death Knight.
I'm still using the same Unholy rotation and Frost rotation (for the most part) that I was when I was raiding in Wrath.

The fact that I am consistently #1 on the dps counter started bugging me, thought recount was broken so I nabbed another addon to count it too, still the same results.
So basically, a tank geared DK using a rotation from, what, 6 months ago now? And I'm doing better most of the time in hcs, yup, people need to start to reading about their classes because seriously I really should be getting the floor wiped with me on the meters.

No wonder. This just proves how easy frost is. Try to do the same numbers as a mage or moonkin or pretty much whatever else (except for hunter) and it's just not that simple.

On another note: people are GENERALLY really bad at this game nowdays and most of it happened after WotLK was released when all the new things were introduced. Heirlooms, dungeon finder, easy raid and dungeon tactics (if any at all) and more. Everything turned so noob-friendly and they can't get used to the standards that once were, and are starting to become once more.

Rose tinted goggles much? Can't count how many times I wiped in H Steamvaults because that rogue couldn't get to the sap target without getting seen or hunter who said he could kite a mob couldn't.

Agreed, in wrath it was hilarious when you got HoR as random. At least one or two people would leave instantly, because it was so damn hard to not stand in the crap while aoeing everything down or waiting for the mobs to come to the tank behind the corner before starting nuke.

Compared to that, the average Cata LFD PuG is a hundred times better. Even more so in ZA/ZG.

[evan_s]

All the better geared DPS are in ZA/ZG heroics, so sadly it's all the scrubs with 346> Itemlevel in normal dungeons you get.

This seems to be the case, at least on my realm. You'll sometimes get well geared Tanks and even healers queuing for the old heroics looking for the satchel but don't seem to see that with dps. Net result is the old heroics are largely filled with poor dps with gear so bad they can't even cheat their way into the new heroics.

[Tziva]

I don't understand how it's even possible to do that low. Auto-attack/white damage alone should put people a lot higher than 2k even in pvp gear, especially with the Luck of the Draw buff.

[baelon]

My friend's g/f is bad. She pulls around 6k dps with an ilv well above 350. She's not stupid or anything, she's just not good at WoW, not well practiced, doesn't take it that seriously, etc.

When I pug with bad players, I keep her in mind and say nothing in /p. Sure, mentally I say "jeez" and wish I had a better group, but pugging doesn't entitle us to good groups. Form one in guild / trade if you want better players.

PS - has anyone else noticed that the quality of non-za/zg heroics has gone down a lot? I've been running SC on my warr for the tank trinket, and the groups I'm getting are -bad-. Really awful. Not in terms of gear, they're just clueless. Just me or what?

[Deleted]

On the contrary, I love the bad groups; they make tanking a challenge on the survivability front, rather than the threat front. MY tanking toon has plenty of fun learning from the mistakes I make (like taunting Rom'ogg at the wrong end of his patrol, or having a Water Elemetal run round the path to Corla in BRC).

[Tziva]

On the contrary, I love the bad groups; they make tanking a challenge on the survivability front, rather than the threat front. MY tanking toon has plenty of fun learning from the mistakes I make (like taunting Rom'ogg at the wrong end of his patrol, or having a Water Elemetal run round the path to Corla in BRC).

While I can understand this mentality, the fun of a challenge is negated if the group is so bad that it's impossible to succeed.

[lotj]

Now all I can say is, how how how, can a dps level to 85 and still not know how to play thier class.

Well, for the first 69 levels you're stuck cobbling together a "rotation" out of the random abilities you happen to have access to across all three talent trees. Then you're stuck with a neutered rotation until level 81 when you finally get that last Cataclysm ability that completes it.

Not surprising people don't understand the basics of their rotation, given they don't get access to the full thing until the very end.

[Tziva]

Well, for the first 69 levels you're stuck cobbling together a "rotation" out of the random abilities you happen to have access to across all three talent trees. Then you're stuck with a neutered rotation until level 81 when you finally get that last Cataclysm ability that completes it.

Not surprising people don't understand the basics of their rotation, given they don't get access to the full thing until the very end.

Even if you had access to all your moves early on, one still wouldn't level using the same abilities. Mobs don't live long enough for most people to use their full priority system and people often spend resources on survival moves like stuns or self-heal abilities that they wouldn't in groups. And more obvious to me is the fact that most new players who are learning the game aren't going to make their playing more complicated than necessary. If they can kill something by just spamming one button, that's how they'll do it, regardless of how many other moves are available to them.

And I'm not convinced that adding required complexity to the leveling process will make better players at the cap, or just make leveling more painful than it needs to be without much payoff.

[Mayhem]

well thats a problem that came up with the lfg-tool in combination with battlegroups, back in the old days if you were bad everyone from your server knew about it, nowadays you are a name no one recognizes in a guild no one knows... the internetproblem ^^, whatever you do, wont come back to you

[DarthKeller]

Last night I saw that I was 140 VPs away from my T11 chest on my rogue. So, I queue for a troll dungeon.

What do I get? A healer with 77k mana! so, I check gearscore, his average EQUIPPED gear: 339. We wiped on the first PULL! After two more pulls, and wiping each time, I had to leave.

So, I requeue. This time it's better, a healer with 85k mana. I'm doing my thing, pulling about 15k DPS (I'm VERY geared), but behind me is the tank, at 10k. Now, a tank doing 10k is great! But, the other two DPS are doing <10k! That's sad. We made it to the first boss, but without the DPS necessary to take down the adds quick enough, we wiped again and again.

Yeah, there are a lot of crap DPS out there. It sucks to know that I belong to that crowd, but, if taken on a percentage basis, I'm sure there are as many crap tanks/healers. I've almost all but stopped doing dungeons, unless it's a guild run, and I'm not even a tank/healer.

Best advice I can give Blizz - get rid of the LFD.

[Cpttrips]

I feel your pain my mage dinged 85 3 days ago and i ran him through a random heroic the other two dps literally stayed around 3-4k the tank around 9k and i did 17k (overall 14-16k on single targets with not so great gear)which wasnt the worst part pretty much every boss fight ended with the tank myself and the healer standing the other 2 dps would just stand in fire or basically anything harmful they could find till they died lol.

how does one suck so bad at 85?

[Deleted]

I hate posts like this. People rant about the game and make excuses like "I had to get this off my chest". Go to a freakin' shrink if you have problems.

On topic: Many, in fact most, people playing this game are ignorant assholes. I have the feeling that every patch (since vanilla) their numbers have gone up. I quit the game a few months ago for good after 6 years, but I am still interested in seeing how it progresses further. However, every other topic here is some stupid rant with an explanation like the above mentioned and at some point, ignoring it isn't an option anymore.

I'm "sorry", but I "had to get this off my chest"

[ttkyle]

I've been in a group as dps where I'm pulling 18k the whole instance and the other two are at 6-7k, it's really bad. I wish Blizzard would implement a stock dps tracker to show people how poorly they are doing and maybe the people will go read on their class.

One of the my guild members who has an alt tank will just link damage to show people they are bad.

[Nachopie]

random is random? Don't let me get started on all the bad tanks I have had. Go away.