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  1. #1761
    Quote Originally Posted by Karrotlord View Post
    You think the community is dying?
    Play with friends.
    You wanna play with friends?
    Fork it over
    Thats pretty much it. I know free online games have payed features but wow isnt a free mmo, why do they need to charge extra? And we all know this tend to get worse and worse.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  2. #1762
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyo View Post
    It's not about if you have to pay for it. It's the direction this game is going.

    You know, once upon a time, there were MMOs. You paid for te game and then a fee every month which was used to keep the servers running and the game updated wit new stuff and features. Once in a while, there was an addon that brought so much new stuff at once that it was worth the extra one time cost. And that's it. Everyone was happy, the world was all good.

    Now Activision-Blizzard enters the room. You pay for the Game, you pay for addons, you pay your monthly fee, and on top of that, they poop out more and more stuff designed to make you pay even more, all while you get less and less content. Server/faction transfer, name change, race change, mounts, pets, and now, for the first time, extra ingame funcionality. Future possibilities are endless (BoA gear across Servers anyone?)

    Something's become very wrong with this picture. I don't care about the money. Let it be 1$/€, let it be 10. I really don't care. They just crossed a line for me. I don't have a problem with a company wanting to make money. That's what they work for, it's their right. Greed is what I can't stand.

    I was going to reactivate my account when 4.2 goes live. Well, instead I'm going to sell it now.
    This.

    Blizzard is attempting to milk more and more out of WoW while at the same time ruining the feel of the game. I remember a F2P game called "War Rock", it was at its peak a few years ago. It had a lot of active players back then. But when they started charging for certain guns/items the playerbase suddenly dropped and people stopped playing; even those who paid for premium services.

    How far is Blizzard going to go? Currently they are heading in the exact same direction as War Rock, which is truly a shame. Blizzard ignores basic economics, that I didn't even have to take classes to understand, and will keep milking WoW until it goes dry.

    I am tired of Blizzard implenting more and more paid services on top of the monthly fee. Enough is enough, and I won't be going to Arenapass this year, as I'm not supporting greediness and exploitation of players. Some will probably feel forced to buy this service, while a big chunk of boys and girls will quit due to Blizzard's incompotence.
    Last edited by Stefy; 2011-05-19 at 11:22 PM.

  3. #1763
    I'm usually not the one to badmouth what blizz does, and I haven't played for a couple months; but for fucks' sake I can't believe that they really made it paid..... I'm not gonna say ohhhh i'm quitting, but that is simply a bad move.

  4. #1764
    Slippery slope indeed like those have said. Things keep getting worse and worse, and this is not something to mention when you're bleeding subscriptions. I saw this coming though, and it'll continue to get worse. The question is what is "enough" players for them to sustain? Will the rapidly declining activity and worse subscriptions give them a wake up call and they crank up the quality to how it was right before the end of TBC? Or will the lower amount of people that can't kick their addiction be enough for them to be happy?

    We know it's too late for this game though in other regards. When their A-team is fully dedicated to their next project in Titan, when other assets are dedicated to other titles such as Diablo 3, and content packs for SC2, WoW is stuck with whatever they have on it now. There's no going back at this point, and while the quality of WoW has been in free-fall since the Activision merger, could this finally be the straw that broke the kodo's back? We all know, blizz included, that WoW isn't going to be around forever, as it is horribly outdated and long in the tooth compared to the shiny new models out there for consumers. And with Guild Wars 2 having a huge following, and Star Wars which has an even bigger following coming out with all the content in WoW, plus a compelling solo play model, the end is coming more rapidly than expected.

    This is all because they got money hungry, and how Kotick works, he's never satisfied, and will squeeze a rock for blood. He single handedly destroyed Activisions other key franchises. Guitar Hero is done. He damaged a key developer, Infinity Ward, who made them a ton of cash, dismantling their team so bad that Modern Warfare 3 had to be put on life-support that they called in two support development studios to make sure MW3 hits this year in it's 2-year cycle.

    Blizzard used to be the BEST. That's why so many people are mad, that's why the trapped souls are having such a tough time coming around to the truth we've been seeing from them.

    Instead of making more content faster, instead of living up to their empty promises from expansions past, instead of giving their players what they're crying for, this is what they give. Not improved character models and customization so they don't look like they're from the early days of the PS2. Blizzard, you honestly expect us to believe you can't give us the promised Dance Studio even, something so small, from the Wrath trailers which was so important it was used as a bullet point in it's hype trailer. You recycled assets and content so-so much. Yet you can make sure to make purchasable mounts/pets, and premium services? That's low blizzard. Full of fail on so many levels.

    I had so many good times with friends on this game, now we've all quit, literally, my numerous RL and in-game met friends gone, it's a shame to see the ship go down so fast. But perhaps this is the wake up call blizzard needs for Titan, otherwise that game is going to be riddled with stuff like "premium" services. Blizzard needs to bank up their cash and get out like Bungie did when MS was choking the life out of them.

  5. #1765
    Will pay. As will my friends. Been waiting to do something like this for ages.

  6. #1766
    Hmm...funds must be running low for their new MMO "Titan", if you're wondering why the expansions are getting worse, why things are being recycled and why the greatness and new things that came with the game, and things that never happen, well...now you know, because it`s sure as hell not going into this game.
    They have real id, they have cross server BGs, cross server instances, everything is in place to make this free but no, instead they need money so this is what you get, just like how SC2 will be getting a "premium" Blizzard made map service you pay for maps for.

  7. #1767
    The idea is great, but indeed, we do pay alot to play this game.
    Am allready happy they made Real ID, atleast theres a way to talk to those friends now.
    No idea if I will pay for tis new feature.
    Lilith@ Blade's Edge, Europe

  8. #1768
    Quoted from the 3rd thread about this on the EU forums, original poster of this quote is Zugzugy, and is the one that made the most sense after reading all 3 threads:

    Most people thinking this is a good thing are missing the point.

    This premium service isn't important. The whole idea of an extra "premium" subscription is the problem.

    Nowadays, you wont care if you can invite people from real-ID or not. But what if in 2 months from now, with premium subscription sales going up, they decide to give MORE to premium subscribers? How would you feel if the next tier content, or next arena tournament, or even next profession, are only for premium members?

    Allowing them to START offering premium services gives them the grounds to expand upon it to the point where playing the game as premium or as a 2nd-class subscriber, will have huge differences on your gameplay.

    Stop nitpicking on what is given to you at the moment, start looking forward to which paths it opens. You lot wouldn't last a second on a chess board.

  9. #1769
    December 2009. ICC was released. After that? We have been waiting for some new, interesting, content for MONTHS now. We have waited a YEAR for cata to be released, and in the meantime the only new content existed of one small raid: ruby sanctum. After this year, Cata was finally released. However: where was my exciting new content? Ok, they implemented a few new dungeons, but healing them was far too easy and I got my volcanic stone drake within two months. Next to this, they killed pugging because the difficulty of normal raids exceeded the capabilities of the random people slacking in the cities. Ok, people were able to pug one lousy boss in BH, but that's it, and pretty much ruined the game for puggers like me (people who don't like raiding on a specific time, but want to raid when we feel like raiding). To continue my list of "exciting new content", I'll go on with the questing areas, which were too straight forward: the zones were actually one huge questline witout any choice. I mean, what are we: robots? The revamped old world seemed nice at first, however since I am not really the alt-leveling guy (and I'm not alone on this one) I realised that I won't be seeing a lot of it anyway.
    Ah well, the starting content wasn't that exciting after all. But the fast upcomming content patches might add some interesting new features or content to compensate for the lack of interesting stuff, right? After all, I've paid 30 euros for cataclysm alone, and I was still paying 13 euros/month...
    Alas, I was dissapointed once more. The slowly released new content would only provide two new dungeons. Not even a new raiding tier! The new raiding tier wouldn't be released untill 4.2, and even then it would be the smallest raiding tier ever.

    Ofcourse Blizzard doesn't owe us anything, but we don't owe them anything, either. After all, they can't force us to play and pay 13 euros per month, for a game that is barely even worth that amount of money: I can get a random V*lve game for 20-30 bucks, that updates for free AND has a great quality.

    And what will it lead to next? You want to make use of the calendar? Premium! New fancy BG? Premium! Epics? Premium!

    Blizzard, I've been a great fan of your games since warcraft 2 and sc1, however this new path you have clearly chosen doesn't lead to where I would like it to see it go.

    --
    Disclaimer: everything stated above is partly, if not fully based on (my) personal opinions.
    --
    Excuse me for not being a native english speaker.
    --

    -Ithica (Yes I can't post on the official forums because I already canceled my subscription -.-)

  10. #1770
    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    December 2009. ICC was released. After that? We have been waiting for some new, interesting, content for MONTHS now. We have waited a YEAR for cata to be released, and in the meantime the only new content existed of one small raid: ruby sanctum. After this year, Cata was finally released. However: where was my exciting new content? Ok, they implemented a few new dungeons, but healing them was far too easy and I got my volcanic stone drake within two months. Next to this, they killed pugging because the difficulty of normal raids exceeded the capabilities of the random people slacking in the cities. Ok, people were able to pug one lousy boss in BH, but that's it, and pretty much ruined the game for puggers like me (people who don't like raiding on a specific time, but want to raid when we feel like raiding). To continue my list of "exciting new content", I'll go on with the questing areas, which were too straight forward: the zones were actually one huge questline witout any choice. I mean, what are we: robots? The revamped old world seemed nice at first, however since I am not really the alt-leveling guy (and I'm not alone on this one) I realised that I won't be seeing a lot of it anyway.
    Ah well, the starting content wasn't that exciting after all. But the fast upcomming content patches might add some interesting new features or content to compensate for the lack of interesting stuff, right? After all, I've paid 30 euros for cataclysm alone, and I was still paying 13 euros/month...
    Alas, I was dissapointed once more. The slowly released new content would only provide two new dungeons. Not even a new raiding tier! The new raiding tier wouldn't be released untill 4.2, and even then it would be the smallest raiding tier ever.

    Ofcourse Blizzard doesn't owe us anything, but we don't owe them anything, either. After all, they can't force us to play and pay 13 euros per month, for a game that is barely even worth that amount of money: I can get a random V*lve game for 20-30 bucks, that updates for free AND has a great quality.

    And what will it lead to next? You want to make use of the calendar? Premium! New fancy BG? Premium! Epics? Premium!

    Blizzard, I've been a great fan of your games since warcraft 2 and sc1, however this new path you have clearly chosen doesn't lead to where I would like it to see it go.

    --
    Disclaimer: everything stated above is partly, if not fully based on (my) personal opinions.
    --
    Excuse me for not being a native english speaker.
    --

    -Ithica (Yes I can't post on the official forums because I already canceled my subscription -.-)
    Valve and Team Fortress 2 want to have a word with you.

    http://www.teamfortress.com/mannconomy/FAQ/

  11. #1771
    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Quoted from the 3rd thread about this on the EU forums, original poster of this quote is Zugzugy, and is the one that made the most sense after reading all 3 threads:
    Tell him to pass the fucking Crystal Ball! There's a long queue already!

    What if, what if, what if....

    What if we take all these "what if" and put em up his arse? What will happen? Tell us, please. And then pass the god damn Crystal Ball!

  12. #1772
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    Valve and Team Fortress 2 want to have a word with you.

    http://www.teamfortress.com/mannconomy/FAQ/
    I was hinting at L4D/L4D2 and you know it.

  13. #1773
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    -The vast majority of content/game design in any MMO out there has already been ripped from those before it- there's nothing new under the sun.
    I'm talking about existing IN GAME ASSETS IN THIS GAME, completely wrong interpretation that only someone really stretching would not understand. They took old textures/models/artwork and modified them slightly and called it "new". Icecrown Citadel looks like Black Temple with skulls, every set looks like a variation of the same one (save for 1-2 sets that get 'special treatment), a new raid boss is really just a slightly reskinned normal mob, etc etc. The only 100% new artwork we get is from paid mounts/pets
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    It is for access to your account and access to the servers, as they exist.
    And everything I mentioned, thats the IDEA, the PREMISE, then ADVERTISED "IDEA" of an MMO. The fee is for updates to the world itself too. Allowing companies to take that idea away and implant that the cost is merely for server/support/access is THEM screwing YOU.
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    -Most sources seem to think you need a minimum of 150k subscribers to exist profitably.
    What sources ? EQ1 still exists on ~50k subs and has stated specifically the 25k number, WAR has dropped well under 100k and still survives; similar for CoH/CoV and other lesser knowns. Whether its 25k or 150k is meaningless when we're talking about 10million as the comparison. Once they surpass the "magic number" its a major jump in direct profit (or in my argument, money for further development to the game)

    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    I'm cool with taking a stand, I just wish people would do it on solid ground. Every time I see 'free' or 'entitled' I think of a nine-year old asking for allowance, even though he hasn't done his chores. Do you really think QQ'ing on a forum is a more viable form of protest than canceling your account?
    Cancelling your account is fine and dandy, but produces no publicity, especially onesey twosey. Hundreds of thousands posts on popular websites and actually making a "media" presence will do more and encourage people to speak up for themselves
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    I dare you to get a 2-for-twenty at Applebee's once a month for a couple months, then show up and demand one as a long time customer, and see what you're entitled to.
    I dare you to be over 21, and be a regular at a bar and see how many drinks the bartenders comp you. Out of kindness. And out of being a good business. I get some free drinks, I bring friends, they get much more overall business AND a great reputation. Blizzard has been fighting tooth and nail to destroy their own reputation, and fanboys are running out of reasons to defend them.

  14. #1774
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    Valve and Team Fortress 2 want to have a word with you.
    Valve and Team Fortress 2 want to have a word with YOU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valve
    Our plan is to continue updating TF2 just like we always have, adding free maps, game modes, new features, and more. The Mann Co. Store is simply an alternative way of obtaining items that other players can earn during gameplay.... Segregating players into groups that can't play together, based on who bought what, is something we'd like to avoid.
    That's what you get for not reading the shit you link.

    Anyway, the resounding fact is that this is an overwhelmingly unpopular move that Blizzard are suggesting they are to embark on. The fact is that this isn't a complex feature - no more complex (and in fact quite a bit less complex) than what they have already put into the game. The bulk of the code they'd need to put in to facilitate something like this is already in the game and every World of Warcraft player uses it on a near-daily basis; it's called the Dungeon Finder. So the nit-pickers are right to point out how low a move like this is.

    I haven't really read into the issue to any great extent, other than hearing from friends who post on the forums, but from what I can tell Blizzard haven't confirmed whether this will be a one-time activation fee or an on-going subscription. Either way it is still a low move as, and as has been pointed out quite a bit, this is part of what the core functionality of Battle.Net - and by extention World of Warcraft - should cover and should come at no extra charge to the player.

    Consider that best estimates right now suggest that Blizzard spend about $5 per World of Warcraft player in the US and EU maintaining the game (inclusive of all development costs, customer service costs, etc) and you find that they are making around $11 in profit out of your subscription. Some of that money allows them to develop titles like Diablo 3, StarCraft 2 and Project Titan, yes, but it is by no means 100% of that figure going back into running and development costs. Blizzard are very careful to hide their expenditure sheets from public view because in reality a lot of that $11 is going into their pockets and not into development. Some of you will argue that Blizzard is a company and they operate to make money, and that is true, but there is a lot more to running a successful company than hitting profit targets and increasing margins. Brand health is very important for the longevity of a studio - and company - like Blizzard, something that they are hampering with their continued profit-mongering; it may not impact on them too much now but in 10 years time there is every chance that people will look at Blizzard and see a profit-making behemoth like Activision and not a "true" game studio that makes games out of a passion for gaming which will ultimately hamper their continued and potential success. The idiom, "happy customers are paying customers," comes to mind as well; if you as a company and service provider go out of your way to make consumers happy, they will not grieve when you ask them to pay more money. This is quite true of World of Warcraft. Case in point: if Blizzard offered this feature for free, implemented the dance studio for free, added in player housing for free, implemented Path of Titans and actually started developing and adding content outside of their fixed "rinse and repeat" offerings it would have a direct and positive impact on their company image so that when they release the next expansion and charge £34.99 as opposed to £24.99 people won't complain as much as they'll feel they are getting their moneys worth.

    I think it's self-evident that Blizzard have been rinsing and releasing content for the last 6 years to such an extent that players expect new, meaningful additions like the cross-realm grouping service to be covered by their base fee out of a sense of entitlement; a perfectly reasonable sense of entitlement, not least consider the culture that Blizzard has encouraged in the player base. If Blizzard put more effort into World of Warcraft perhaps they could get away with a premium service in addition to what is there already. Seeing as that clearly isn't on the table, Blizzard should realise that no one - not even the most avid of World of Warcraft fans - sees World of Warcraft for anything more than the metaphorical cheap, cut crack that it is.

    As soon as Blizzard offer some kosha powder, I'll fork out some extra dollah.

  15. #1775
    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    I was hinting at L4D/L4D2 and you know it.
    No, I don't know it. But whilst we're on the topic of L4D/L4D2, it'd be a good time to remember that Valve failed to deliver on the free content/updates for the original game when they launched L4D2. In fact there was a major community outcry and boycott push and only after the issue was raised did Valve release the content.

    So perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours and realise there isn't a game company around that isn't trying to squeeze as much money out of their loyal customers as possible.

  16. #1776
    Quote Originally Posted by herminatores View Post
    Premium? Premium? dont we f**ckin pay a monthly fee for playin a game, and now they are asking to pay more money to be able to queue with your friends from different realm. HAHA! Big joke. Hopefully the idea will die, cause if that goes live its going to be a major failure from Blizzard's side.
    bobby needs more money, he can not just raise the monthly costs, because this would drive away more players than he would gain, so premium is the way to go. right now you pay extra for vanity items, mobile acesss and soon for x-realm features. Charging extra for cinematics was already a topic for Bobby. And you know this is good for me and you. As long as there is an idiot who pays 5$ per month extra my 60 day gtc will stay at 15€, and in general subscription costs stay at 12.99$. So more power to premium!

  17. #1777

    Premium?

    My wife, son, and I have played for 5 years now. $180 per year x 5 years x 3 people = $2,700.00. Please do not tell me that Blizzard is not making enough money off me as I have never paid that much for any other game and it does not include Installation costs, in-game pets, PC upgrades, etc. I have an alternative option for Blizzard. Option 1 - At a time when everyone I know is bored and walking away from the game, why don't they make the phone app and real-id matching a part of the ungodly money I have already paid, AND lower the monthly subscription to $10 per month. Option 2 - lose my money entirely cause I'm getting fed up with this BS!

    Thanks for the 5 great years Blizz, I thought the only thing that would get me off WOW would be the next Blizz MMO, I find that greed can do it for me. I don't think I need to even worry about your next MMO if this is the direction you are headed.

  18. #1778
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    No, I don't know it. But whilst we're on the topic of L4D/L4D2, it'd be a good time to remember that Valve failed to deliver on the free content/updates for the original game when they launched L4D2. In fact there was a major community outcry and boycott push and only after the issue was raised did Valve release the content.

    So perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours and realise there isn't a game company around that isn't trying to squeeze as much money out of their loyal customers as possible.
    You can say whatever you want, and maybe you're somewhat right on my L4D1 argument, but even that specifice game gave me more statisfaction than wow has given me since december 2009, which is in line with my disclaimer. Also: the person who posted above you also had some great points.

    I am not the one on the high horse, blizzard is because they are trying to make us pay for something not worth the money; they think they can do everything and get away with it, because 'those scrub customers are stupid enough to pay for it anyway'. Well, not me. They should make it a free service, not only for us, but for their own good. It's just frustrating and sad to see one of the best game companies, one of the game companies I loved most since I was a kid, going down hill like this, at least regarding the new policy.
    Last edited by conceit2; 2011-05-21 at 04:55 PM.

  19. #1779
    Quote Originally Posted by indelible View Post
    Valve and Team Fortress 2 want to have a word with YOU.
    They tried, but I haven't bothered to install the game and take their call.

    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    You can say whatever you want, and maybe you're somewhat right on my L4D1 argument, but even that specifice game gave me more statisfaction than wow has given me since december 2009, which is in line with my disclaimer. Also: the person who posted above you also had some great points.

    I am not the one on the high horse, blizzard is because they are trying to make us pay for something not worth the money; they think they can do everything and get away with it, because 'those scrub customers are stupid enough to pay for it anyway'. Well, not me. They should make it a free service, not only for us, but for their own good. It's just frustrating and sad to see one of the best game companies, one of the game companies I loved most since I was a kid, going down hill like this, at least regarding the new policy.
    FYI: http://kotaku.com/5286185/valve-resp...t-for-original

    If WoW hasn't given you that amount of satisfaction you desire, why are you still playing it and what are you doing here posting about it? Don't like it, quit. Don't want to have to pay for an un-required additional service, don't. The fact is that more and more of the games market is headed in this direction, including Valve.

    I'm surprised it has taken Blizzard this long to bring this feature into action, it's a functionality I expected almost from the beginning of the new Battle.Net service. I've got no qualms about paying the fee either, in the long run it will save me time and money on leveling a new character/server changes.

    But ultimately there is one conundrum. If WoW is dying and less and less people are logging in on your Real ID friends list, why are you complaining about a service you won't need/use?

    Just a thought.....
    Last edited by Aktavite; 2011-05-22 at 12:27 PM.

  20. #1780
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    I have been thinking about my argument regarding L4D, and I actually think that it is comparable with any wow expansion. So far, at the end of EVERY expansion lots of people are complaining about: "Omfg, all my hard work: gone. All those hours raiding for well deserved epics, and you're forcing me into greens again!?" And the updates for people who don't buy the expansions are lacking, combined with the fact that the communities for both instances of the game are separated (vanilla people can't get in bc zones, and so on). The diffrence is that a game like our example L4D is a one time payment, and then you have access to EVERYTHING. I can understand that, and I'm fine with that. After all, Wow expansions are brought once every ~18-22 months, while L4D was replaced after 12 months. But lets take a closer look: Cataclysm is out for 6 months, and they are already talking about premium content, which unleashed a MAJOR discussion regarding blizzards new policy: premium. (And on a sidenote, L4D2 hasn't been replaced for almost two years now, while updates and new content are still periodically being released, and L4D3's release date hasn't been officially announced yet).

    Yet people might argue about the fact that this is just a minor thing, but really? Would a minor thing unleash a discussion with a magnitude like this? Countless of threads on both the official and unofficial forums have been started, just for this minor feature? Let's take a look at some history. What caused World War One? Some guy got shot. What unleashed all the rage in the middle east lately? Just some random guy setting himself on fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    If WoW hasn't given you that amount of satisfaction you desire, why are you still playing it and what are you doing here posting about it? Don't like it, quit.
    As I have stated in my first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by conceit2 View Post
    (Yes I can't post on the official forums because I already canceled my subscription -.-)
    So yes, I have actually quit wow quite some months ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aktavite View Post
    But ultimately there is one conundrum. If WoW is dying and less and less people are logging in on your Real ID friends list, why are you complaining about a service you won't need/use?
    Because I am not only concerned about the fate of one of my favorite companies, but also because I would use this feature if it was free. I just don't think it would be worth any money, at least not any more than the monthly 13 euros already. And many of my friends think about it in exactly the same way: we might even consider playing again with this feature, because this would allow us to play together, even though we are spread among many servers.

    Look, I am not a Blizzard hater.
    I am not against this feature.
    I am not trying to start or support any boycot against one of my favorite game designing companies.
    I am, however, trying to stop this specific form of premium(greed) by any means of reason and constructive criticism, creating a verbal fist with people who think alike about this feature.
    I am not against any other form of premium, including: vanity stuff for charity (I actually think this is one of the best ideas Blizzard has ever had), other vanity stuff (not as good as charity, but as long as it won't fulfill any role other than looking sexy ingame, I'm fine with that), and premium content designed for non-pc's: (mobile AH and stuff like that).
    Last edited by conceit2; 2011-05-22 at 03:20 PM.

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