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  1. #1541
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranor View Post
    That's the thing. I'm not going to be paying extra for something that I'm already paying for.

    My $15 a month allows me access to the Warcraft servers and allows me to play the game that was created. That's what your $15 a month allows you too. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know where this notion that your $15 allows you to gain access to everything Blizzard ever does came from, but it's definitely a misconception.

    It's been used before, but it's like paying money to get into an amusement park and then expecting all of the concessions to come free. It just doesn't work that way.

    Most of the arguments here are flawed and presented in a way the only someone who is flustered about not getting their way would do. It's sad, but true.
    you pay that 15/m or 13/m for playing this game. Playing in cross realms with friends is included in said game so i fail to see how they should make us pay extra for it. If you wanted to play SC2 and not pay for it because you already pay for wow THEN you should pay extra, like you do anyways

  2. #1542
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranor View Post

    So. You're saying the person on your realm would get all of the gold and the other people won't get any of the gold. I mean, as it stands, if I wanted I could grab four guildies and grab a random fifth and charge them for a bear \ full gear from ZA \ ZG and make mad bank. I'm not really seeing your point because I'm beginning to think you don't have one.
    Use your brain a little. 4 men, 4 realms covered. If they can boost 4 ppl today (1 from each realm) that is a chunk for each of them. Premium users can do that, if I don't pay, I wouldn't. If it was free, however, everyone could do it if they wanted to, so it's fair. Paying money IRL for edge ingame is not fair. A whole new topic is the fact Blizz should not be charging for game functionality, piece by piece. You buy Classis+BC+WotLK+Cata, pay your sub and you still cannot do everything the game offers. Nice.

  3. #1543
    Quote Originally Posted by hollycrapp View Post
    4 man needed, at least 1 with premium. 1 of those chars is on your server, he gets all the gold. Wisping someone, he puts up a 4man group, 1 of them from your realm. Could possibly cover all realms with enough coordination.
    Actually, that's really clever. If I remember right, that's how the first Venetian banks worked, centuries ago.

  4. #1544
    Deleted
    $3.99 per trade. Coming soon. You know it's true.

    Apologize to hollycrapp.
    Oh noes! Tin foil hat!

  5. #1545
    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty1 View Post
    when you got to buy a car they offer you the crappy "stock" version with cloth seats, garbage sound system and 15 inch rims, no A/C for 20k.... if you want the nice chrome 19's, phat Bose sound system, nice wood panel trimming, heated leather seats etc you need to pay EXTRA!!! omg Shocker! the "basic" purchase didint come with all these nice (but NOT crucial) extra features...

    ffs even McDonalds charges you 25 cents to put a piece of cheese on your damn burger. i dont get why this is so hard for everyone to grasp!
    The analogy you're looking for is selling you a car for 20k without a shift knob, and 22k with a shift knob. I mean, you don't NEED the shift knob, you can shift just fine using the shifter handle, but it should have been included with the price of the car.

  6. #1546
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughriot View Post
    Nope, I understand all of that. I read the thread.

    And my point still stands proudly, completely unblemished by the whining complaints presented by you and others in this thread.

    If you don't like the feature, don't pay for it. Period. Your game play experience will not have changed in the slightest from what it is now, and neither will the amount of money you are giving to Blizzard. You will not be at a disadvantage in any way.

    Just don't give them extra money. I've been following that philosophy since the very first premium services were added. It's not hard at all.

    You are literally complaining about something that doesn't effect you.
    Bolded the flaw in your argument. Newsflash! playing with your friends actually DOES change your game experience

  7. #1547
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by hollycrapp View Post
    Use your brain a little. 4 men, 4 realms covered. If they can boost 4 ppl today (1 from each realm) that is a chunk for each of them. Premium users can do that, if I don't pay, I wouldn't. If it was free, however, everyone could do it if they wanted to, so it's fair. Paying money IRL for edge ingame is not fair. A whole new topic is the fact Blizz should not be charging for game functionality, piece by piece. You buy Classis+BC+WotLK+Cata, pay your sub and you still cannot do everything the game offers. Nice.
    Wow, wouldn't it be easier to just get four people on your server? I mean, really, really, really easier?

  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by Prem View Post
    People here are just hunting for things to make conspiracy theories or cry about in general.
    This use of the term "conspiracy theory" is really getting on my nerves. It's a loaded, prejudicial phrase. And worse, it's not true. How is a well-known, tried-and-true business model a "conspiracy"?

  9. #1549
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Prem View Post
    Wow, wouldn't it be easier to just get four people on your server? I mean, really, really, really easier?
    It would, except for the fact you can cover all possible realms that way. Larger market = more customers.

  10. #1550
    Quote Originally Posted by Prem View Post
    So you are the authority of what is "supposed" to be in the game now? Yes, Blizzard loses, development costs money. I'd rather they make the small amount of people who wanted this functionality pay for the development, rather than all of those who didn't really care. People here are just hunting for things to make conspiracy theories or cry about in general.
    Anything wow (game) related should be included in our monthly fees, thats what we pay for. They make us pay for features that actually harm the game /aka xfer, and they don't want us to use said features all the time

  11. #1551
    Quote Originally Posted by hollycrapp View Post
    Use your brain a little. 4 men, 4 realms covered. If they can boost 4 ppl today (1 from each realm) that is a chunk for each of them. Premium users can do that, if I don't pay, I wouldn't. If it was free, however, everyone could do it if they wanted to, so it's fair. Paying money IRL for edge ingame is not fair. A whole new topic is the fact Blizz should not be charging for game functionality, piece by piece. You buy Classis+BC+WotLK+Cata, pay your sub and you still cannot do everything the game offers. Nice.
    That's still no different than me going in with my guild and charging people for runs. I can do that now and boost other players and get money for it. I could set up a forum and invite people from all over and get them in on my scheme to make money and it would cover all servers and this would happen everywhere, even without the feature.

    you pay that 15/m or 13/m for playing this game. Playing in cross realms with friends is included in said game so i fail to see how they should make us pay extra for it. If you wanted to play SC2 and not pay for it because you already pay for wow THEN you should pay extra, like you do anyways
    But I -don't- PAY to play with my RealID friends. I pay to access the servers. So do you. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

  12. #1552
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyoa View Post
    Bolded the flaw in your argument. Newsflash! playing with your friends actually DOES change your game experience
    Today, you can't chose to specifically play with your cross-realm friends, after this comes in, you pay $0 extra to be in the exact same situation! Your gameplay doesn't change in the slightest. You just have an option, if it suits you, to change it. You've gained, if anything.

  13. #1553
    Brewmaster Vayshan's Avatar
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    Ppl who say they are ok with this being a paid service should first think logicly about why the other "services" are paid. Then come back here and comtenplate on the reason this feature, whish is alrdy present, should cost money to ppl who alrdy pay money just for these ingame enhancements.

  14. #1554
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rogie View Post
    This use of the term "conspiracy theory" is really getting on my nerves. It's a loaded, prejudicial phrase. And worse, it's not true. How is a well-known, tried-and-true business model a "conspiracy"?
    You're implying theres a conspiracy to make almost everything into a premium service, with no factual evidence. Hence, conspiracy theory. *X-Files music plays*

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-18 at 06:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hollycrapp View Post
    It would, except for the fact you can cover all possible realms that way. Larger market = more customers.
    Except, your market is the same. Exactly the same. Each person in said syndicate could only profit from their server - each person's market is still the same. Also, the people who'd be able to do this in a co-ordinated fashion would most likely be in high end guilds, with other people who could also do it (not to mention the gear level).

    Your method seems overly complicated for absolutely no benefit.

  15. #1555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyoa View Post
    you pay that 15/m or 13/m for playing this game. Playing in cross realms with friends is included in said game so i fail to see how they should make us pay extra for it. If you wanted to play SC2 and not pay for it because you already pay for wow THEN you should pay extra, like you do anyways
    It is? How do you do it?

  16. #1556
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyoa View Post
    Anything wow (game) related should be included in our monthly fees, thats what we pay for. They make us pay for features that actually harm the game /aka xfer, and they don't want us to use said features all the time
    Not what your subscription agreement says but okay.

  17. #1557
    and the forums will explode if blizzard announces the new visual tab being premium service

    i will not be impressed if they do that, its almost certain they will do (if they develop it lol)

  18. #1558
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    The analogy you're looking for is selling you a car for 20k without a shift knob, and 22k with a shift knob. I mean, you don't NEED the shift knob, you can shift just fine using the shifter handle, but it should have been included with the price of the car.
    It's crazy how far we've gotten without a shift knob.

    Or maybe that's just a terrible comparison.

  19. #1559
    Quote Originally Posted by Prem View Post
    You're implying theres a conspiracy to make almost everything into a premium service, with no factual evidence. Hence, conspiracy theory. *X-Files music plays*
    You accidentally used the word "you're". I haven't implied anything. I've said exactly, explicitly, what I believe.

    I've written way too many posts today. There've been some intelligent posters, but too many dumb ones mixed in. Thanks to all the people who brought up the level of discourse in this too-long thread. Bye.

  20. #1560
    Quoted from Ngau on the official forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...06195?page=13/

    Top of the page.

    Before you make a claim as to what Blizzard "owes" us as players or make insinuations as to their "insidious" business practices, please consider the following:

    When you purchase World of Warcraft and its expansions, Blizzard Entertainment is granting you a limited license to use its property subject to your agreement to the EULA. These terms are mostly similar to those found in other games (with a few notable exceptions). When you install the game and when you log in, you agree to these terms. At this point in time, you have entered into a contract with Blizzard Entertainment for a limited license to use their software. Simple enough right?

    The EULA also contains a clause that requires you to: "have registered a Battle.net® Account to access the Service and play the Game. The Battle.net® Service is subject to the BNET Terms of Use Agreement...You must also accept the WoW Terms of Use in order to access the Service to play the Game." If you do not wish to agree to these terms you may return the game to the vendor within 30days of purchase for a refund. So there are now Terms of Use that you must agree to in addition to the EULA.

    S 1(2) of the ToU grants you another limited license, but this time it is in respect to use of "the service" (defined in the preamble), provided you also agree to pay any relevant fees as consideration under S1(3). Subject to your adherence of the other clauses in the agreement, S.15(1) grants you the right to terminate the agreement if you no longer wish to be a party to it. More simply, you could cease payments and your breach of S1(3) would terminate the agreement.

    I would like to highlight S.16 of the ToU, specifically, subsection (11). By agreeing to the ToU you agree to allow Blizzard Entertainment to modify or even outright delete game data. Therefore, any new feature, content update, class changes or premium service that Blizzard Entertainment decides to add or remove is within their rights as a party to the contract as long as it adheres to the ToU.

    In fact, beyond Blizzard Entertainment's agreement to provide the service under S.9 and to use "reasonable effort" to maintain game data under S.16(10), Blizzard owes you no other contractual duty. Assertions as to an entitlement to anything beyond these obligations (including those of a ethical or moral nature) are not valid claims of action.

    Under S.12 of the ToU grants Blizzard Entertainment the express right to change and alter the agreement, specifically in relation to fees and services as they see fit. Furthermore, it is provided: "If any future changes to this Agreement are unacceptable to you or cause you to no longer be in compliance with this Agreement, you may cease to use your World of Warcraft account and terminate the Account in accordance with Section XVII, Section 1, herein".

    As you can see, there is really no enforceable right to stop Blizzard Entertainment from implementing such as change as the one in issue. Blizzard is perfectly entitled to "nickel and dime" you, regardless of whether it is in fact "lame" or "stupid", as long as it falls within the ambit of the relevant terms . If you find the terms of the agreement to be onerous, freedom of contract allows you to decline to accept the offer of service. Furthermore, provided that such a service would be offered in a similar fashion to the "World of Warcraft Remote" service, agreement to its separate ToU is not required under any provisions in either the EULA and ToU (agreement to which is minimum to play in the first place) and are therefore not requisite to enjoy your existing license.

    If you wish for Blizzard Entertainment to continue to grant you these licences, but to not agree to the current terms of the EULA and/or ToU, you are definitely more than welcome to propose a counter offer with different terms for them to accept.

    Blizzard Entertainment is in no way obligated to collect community feedback in regards to proposed changes in any respect. The fact that they have decided to do so above and beyond their contractual obligation to us as licencees and subscribers should be evidential of at least some degree of consideration as to our concerns regarding this issue. I would also hold any further speculation as to the merit of such a service until the full details are made available.

    All legal documentation can be found here : http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/
    edit: tl;dr Blizzard doesn't owe you anything.

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