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  1. #1

    aaargh, dps is sucking

    Hi all, some advice would be welcome. My off spec is SP and i am starting to develop it. But i am very unhappy with my dps which is around 9-10k on heroics and trollz. I will not link armory because it shows my holy gear. Some info: class human, regular build 10-0-31, ilvl 357, intell 4850, spir 970, spellpower 7200, haste 21%, hit, 13,4% (can cap with trinket, but dps lowers from that because intell drops), crit 15,6%, mast 12.8%.
    Rotation on bosses: i use mfclip to keep dots on all time and use mf in between, ofc eye open for dark evangelism and orbs. So mostly rotation starts with mb, vt, archangel, dp, sp, and multiple mf while keeping dots up in between,
    I use the same rotation on mobs, but sometimes allso try simple 3x ms, mb after gaining evang. This gives the same dps more or less.
    This gives me a steady total of 9-10k dps, but i am sure with my gear more should be possible. Tips plz

    Thx, Gayaa

  2. #2
    one word - multidotting. That should take you to 15-20k trash dps even in 357 gear.

    Boss dps should be around 15k. with that it lvl. You dont need to cap hit in hc. only on raids. (actually only on raid bosses).

    First off you should reforge as much haste as possible. and gem all slots with intellect (except where you can get intellect bonusses on gear - then orange/purple is ok.)

    Your opener is wrong though. You should start like this: VT-dp-sw and then mf untill you get an orb. Then instantly MB to get Empowered Shadows. This you KEEP up all through the fight.

    And dont use you arch until you have emp shadows and make sure its stacked to 5 before releasing it.

    That should take you in the right direction.

  3. #3
    Hi Syldarin, thx for the tips, i was pretty clueless. Enchants, reforge and gems are allrdy as you suggested, as counts for when to cap hit.
    But will sure try the suggested opening, multidotting, spellchoice and your tip on the arch.

    Of to the dummies now, thx bigtime, Gayaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    one word - multidotting. That should take you to 15-20k trash dps even in 357 gear.

    Boss dps should be around 15k. with that it lvl. You dont need to cap hit in hc. only on raids. (actually only on raid bosses).

    First off you should reforge as much haste as possible. and gem all slots with intellect (except where you can get intellect bonusses on gear - then orange/purple is ok.)

    Your opener is wrong though. You should start like this: VT-dp-sw and then mf untill you get an orb. Then instantly MB to get Empowered Shadows. This you KEEP up all through the fight.

    And dont use you arch until you have emp shadows and make sure its stacked to 5 before releasing it.

    That should take you in the right direction.

  4. #4
    syl has good advice. hit>haste>mastery.

    mastery is ok for long fights but honestly short ones its trash since our dots never get their full duration.
    also try n use ur AA and SF asap so u get more of them, jus make sure all debuffs are on the target first.

  5. #5
    Hi Syl, back from the dummies with an update, different spellchoice, opening and Arcgangel-tip improved dps to around 12-12,5k, so about 25% improvement. THX for that, still not 15k but at least i'm not clueless anymore. will try multidotting in dungs to see how that goes. Gz, Gayaa

  6. #6
    You can multi dot the test dummies to get a good view. use focus macros for multidotting fights. Focus macros are extremely helpful on fights where there is 2 mobs IE VnT or a fight like Maloriak where you can focus mal to keep your dots up in between AoE's. Use your shadowfiend on CD, remember critting will lower the CD. Dont use Death >25% unless you really need the mana. Try to use your SF when most of your int buffs are up because it not only does more dmg but you're getting more mana back per dmg it cuases. Use your AA AFTER you refresh your DoTS as you want to run AA without having to reapply a dot in the middle of AA being up.

    int > haste > crit > mastery. Hit capping isnt 100% needed if you have good reaction timing. If you decide to not run hit cap i suggest between 14-17% hit. Its 17% hit to never miss a raid boss and its either 3% or 5% hit for heroic dungeons and raid trash i cant remember off the top of my head on that one.

    Best advice i can really give though is check out sites like shadowpriest.com, howtopriest.com and take a look for newnoises SP guide floating around in the mmo-champion priest forums.
    Last edited by scandalis; 2011-05-18 at 05:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Actually some of this info is incorrect. The stat priority is as follows:
    Intel >>>>>> Haste > Crit = Mastery > Hit

    Hit capping is only a preference issue now, as hit rating does not increase our dps as much as direct DDs since dot ticks can never miss once the initial dot is applied. Generally it is agreed that hit under 13% is unsafe, and most high-end shadow priests will hover between 15 and 17% hit rating, never go over 17% it is a dps gain to reforge hit to haste or crit or mastery if the reforging prevents you from going over the cap.

    Starting Spell rotation for bosses should be as follows:
    Open with VT -> SWpain -> Devouring Plague (use SWP and DP while running in to place) -> Mind flay until your first orb -> Mind blast -> Vampiric Touch -> Devouring Plague -> Archangel -> Mind flay spam

    From there your priority is as follows
    Keeping Dots up > SWDeath (boss hp < 25%) > Mind Blast > Mind Flay > SWDeath (boss hp > 25%)

    Use Shadowfiend whenever you recieve procs from trinkets or enchants as the shadowfiend's attack damage is based of your spell power, but if you have to delay the cast for more than 15 seconds it will result in a dps loss to wait for procs.

    A couple small tips:
    If you know heroism will be cast within the next 30 seconds, delay your shadowfiend cast
    Whenever you cast an instant spell, strafe while casting them for a 60% increased chance to proc apparitions.
    Your intellect/spell power procs increase your shadowfiend dps
    DoT damage per tick is calculated upon application, so refreshing your dots before a proc wears off is a DPS gain
    You should only ever cast SWPain once per boss, it is a dps gain and more efficient to refresh all instances of SWPain with mind flay

  8. #8
    @Schoen

    Ah, was just about to make a post correcting people. :P
    Only thing I would mention is about you putting hit below crit/mastery - you can't just take Simcraft's value for hit as fact. If simcraft misses Vampiric touch, the next spell will be vampiric touch. What with latency and the way the spell queue works, a player will have begun casting mindflay before VT misses - so you'll lose some DoT uptime. For this reason, there's no numerical value that can be given to hit - the general consensus is that it's a bit better than simcraft says, but not as much higher as to put it above haste(Or anywhere close to intellect.)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by schoenkid37 View Post
    Actually some of this info is incorrect. The stat priority is as follows:
    Intel >>>>>> Haste > Crit = Mastery > Hit

    Hit capping is only a preference issue now, as hit rating does not increase our dps as much as direct DDs since dot ticks can never miss once the initial dot is applied. Generally it is agreed that hit under 13% is unsafe, and most high-end shadow priests will hover between 15 and 17% hit rating, never go over 17% it is a dps gain to reforge hit to haste or crit or mastery if the reforging prevents you from going over the cap.

    Starting Spell rotation for bosses should be as follows:
    Open with VT -> SWpain -> Devouring Plague (use SWP and DP while running in to place) -> Mind flay until your first orb -> Mind blast -> Vampiric Touch -> Devouring Plague -> Archangel -> Mind flay spam

    From there your priority is as follows
    Keeping Dots up > SWDeath (boss hp < 25%) > Mind Blast > Mind Flay > SWDeath (boss hp > 25%)

    Use Shadowfiend whenever you recieve procs from trinkets or enchants as the shadowfiend's attack damage is based of your spell power, but if you have to delay the cast for more than 15 seconds it will result in a dps loss to wait for procs.

    A couple small tips:
    If you know heroism will be cast within the next 30 seconds, delay your shadowfiend cast
    Whenever you cast an instant spell, strafe while casting them for a 60% increased chance to proc apparitions.
    Your intellect/spell power procs increase your shadowfiend dps
    DoT damage per tick is calculated upon application, so refreshing your dots before a proc wears off is a DPS gain
    You should only ever cast SWPain once per boss, it is a dps gain and more efficient to refresh all instances of SWPain with mind flay
    Hitcapping is for raidbosses. Every end game player will see increase ind dps by capping. Its a personal preference ofc, but not capping when you already have alot of spi+hit from your BiS gear is not recommended.

    I dont do 30k on magmaw by not capping my hit.

    I ran 14% hit in raids for a few months and felt it was fine getting ranked on wol top 50 more than once. But tried 17% as the other priests in my guild were catching up to me when they capped, and i must say - i does really give a boost, as well as a smoother rota. Wouldnt go below cap for a very little crit/mastery burst - that would gimp my dps.

    I do agree on the shadowfiend tip.

    Another tip : if you have Darkmoon Card - Volcano trinket - Put the proc: "Volcanic Destruction" in your timers so you can se when you have the biggest int burst

    And OP - Your initial dps in the heroics ofc has something to do with the buffs the group carry. Always claim the Dark Intent from your warlock and dont expect as huge dps with 2 other melee as you will have with, lets say a boomkin and a mage in your grp

    And you will ofc do alot more on a 5 man boss than you will on a dummy - because of those buffs
    Last edited by Syldarin; 2011-05-19 at 05:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    Hitcapping is for raidbosses. Every end game player will see increase ind dps by capping.
    This has been shown to not be strictly true. Sure you do go on to say it is a personal preference, but this statement is completely incorrect. Some people will see a dps increase by being hit capped where as others definitely have a dps increase from not being hit capped. There are a lot of variables to understand and to know about in order to see the increase from not being hit capped, but it is possible for some people to increase their dps by being under hit cap.

  11. #11
    It is actually correct, as MB and SW has become a much bigger dps source.

    See WoL - how many top 50 players on each fight is below cap?

    Zero

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    It is actually correct, as MB and SW has become a much bigger dps source.

    See WoL - how many top 50 players on each fight is below cap?

    Zero
    Because it is SOOOO very likely that those two would just happen to be the ones you miss.... please don't rehash this over done debate again.

    Also, because you asked.
    Tetching
    His Hit is at 15.01%
    Oh look he is ranked #2 on Nef
    Here is his logs from that fight

    Looks like he missed 4 mind flays and one magma... Wow he must have been REALLY luck huh? oh wait... looks like he cast a total of 22.5 VT (158ticks/7 ticks per cast), 48 MF (144ticks/3 ticks per cast), we'll assume he only cast sw: pain once, 12 DP (he had 12 imp dp casts so going by that) which equals to 83.5 casts of things that are not sw: death or MB compared to 31 casts of MB and sw: death... but you are right he is far more likely to miss on those two spells.

    Also, I found this in under a minute of looking... probably could find more if I looked harder. Now you might say that most people in the top 50 are hit capped, and you would probably be right about that. However, you said every player and it only takes one example to prove that something isn't every player. This is the issue I had with what you said.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2011-05-19 at 02:42 PM.

  13. #13
    A factor contributing to your low dps is that shadow is a lacking dps spec at the moment.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syldarin View Post
    one word - multidotting. That should take you to 15-20k trash dps even in 357 gear.

    Boss dps should be around 15k. with that it lvl. You dont need to cap hit in hc. only on raids. (actually only on raid bosses).

    First off you should reforge as much haste as possible. and gem all slots with intellect (except where you can get intellect bonusses on gear - then orange/purple is ok.)

    Your opener is wrong though. You should start like this: VT-dp-sw and then mf untill you get an orb. Then instantly MB to get Empowered Shadows. This you KEEP up all through the fight.

    And dont use you arch until you have emp shadows and make sure its stacked to 5 before releasing it.

    That should take you in the right direction.
    Really!!?? Thats awesome Ive been doing the right rotation

    I started a priest ad just made up my own. Awesome!!!! I feel smart, but yea, hunter rotation was so confusing....

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyeless View Post
    A factor contributing to your low dps is that shadow is a lacking dps spec at the moment.
    Lmfao. Very very close to top, if we aren't there.

  16. #16
    I love doing 46k dps on halfus with a 359 item level Shadow is not a lacking dps spec. I usually prefade as the tank is starting the pull, pain and DP while running into place, then I VT, mind flay until I get a shadow orb and then mind blast. Then once I recast VT and DP, I pop archangel to get the most time spent casting flay and blast. Generally I cast shadowfiend early in the fight, as soon as my volcano and power torrent proc together. Im an herbalist, and while its generally not the greatest profession for dps, I usually use lifeblood when I'm going to be spamming mind sear for whelps or flame pillar.
    Last edited by Töasty; 2011-05-19 at 03:13 PM.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Because it is SOOOO very likely that those two would just happen to be the ones you miss.... please don't rehash this over done debate again.

    Also, because you asked.
    Tetching
    His Hit is at 15.01%
    Oh look he is ranked #2 on Nef
    Here is his logs from that fight

    Looks like he missed 4 mind flays and one magma... Wow he must have been REALLY luck huh? oh wait... looks like he cast a total of 22.5 VT (158ticks/7 ticks per cast), 48 MF (144ticks/3 ticks per cast), we'll assume he only cast sw: pain once, 12 DP (he had 12 imp dp casts so going by that) which equals to 83.5 casts of things that are not sw: death or MB compared to 31 casts of MB and sw: death... but you are right he is far more likely to miss on those two spells.

    Also, I found this in under a minute of looking... probably could find more if I looked harder. Now you might say that most people in the top 50 are hit capped, and you would probably be right about that. However, you said every player and it only takes one example to prove that something isn't every player. This is the issue I had with what you said.
    This is Nefarian 10man normal? And he is wearing almost full BiS (ok, a big lack of Sinestra gear). He even got 4 tricks of the trade and 1 power infusion, and the fight only lasted 5:41 minutes. He had the perfect raid buffs (Affliction warlock DI, curse of elements, 10 % spell power, 3 % damage done), and since they outgeared it that much, I assume he was able to multidot Nefarian quite a lot in P2 since eletrocutes probably aren't a problem. Since he got so high on WoL, I am going to assume that he didn't have any downtime either in P2 because of platform adds dying as first or second on his platform (the DPS timeline seems to confirm this).
    I guess most shadow priests with his gear (me included), would be able to pull this off under the same circumstances. It is even 10man normal, so the competetion is very low.

    And his DPS would have been lower if something other than mind flay had missed.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2011-05-19 at 03:15 PM.

  18. #18
    This was an example of someone doing great dps under hit cap. Because according to Sly that isn't possible. And the point you seemed to have missed there is that Sly said because of those two spells being under hit cap would always be a dps decrease, when in fact the amount we cast those two spells so much lower than the amount we cast all our other spells together that the chance of missing one of those spells particularly is minute... but since you seem to personally need a heroic fight to get it, I'll go find one. Is there a particular fight you would pick that would convince you that always is not the correct term here?

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer
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    Well if you can find one of the top shadow priests who consistantly pull new shadow priest world records, and use him/her as an example instead, your arguement would be much more suitable. I know always isnt the right term to use, but hopefully you get my point.

  20. #20
    Nevermind here are more easily found examples.

    Ryurak His hit is at 16.10%
    number 8 on heroic 10 man Nef

    Annasthetic Hit is at 14.80%
    number 9 on heroic 10 Nef

    Proxie Hit is at 15.86%
    number 6 on heroic 25 nef

    Biffy Hit is at 15.38%
    Number one on Heroic V&T

    Oh hey look it's Tetching again, number one on heroic 10 man Sinestra

    Keisuai Hit at 15.52%
    Number 2 on heroic V&T

    Being under hit cap is a numbers game. Even if you are under hit cap you might make it through whole fights without missing a single spell, much less missing any particular spell. There are also quite a few variables that have to do with a person themselves. So making statements about always, or everyone, or anything along those lines with a spriest IS incorrect.

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