Should you have to specify that the buyer keeps procs?

[Warwithin]

In a situation that recently occured, I purchased a Truegold transmute from another player for 100g, my mats. He procced a second Truegold Bar, but only gave me 1 of the bars. I was upset. I would never pay 100g for a transmute specifically from a transmute-specced Alchemist only for them to take the proc. The man then continued to return to me the 100g tip and hoped I went on my way.

I didn't.

He in essence stole 300 gold from me (It may be petty, but there's a matter of principal involved). I have an open ticket as he still refuses to give me the bar in exchange for the 100g tip I gave him with the materials I traded him.

This leads me to a question, however: Should a buyer of a tradeskill have to specify that they receive all the items that are crafted with their materials?

To me, it's the same as if I were to give an Alchemist the materials for 20 flasks and they only gave me 18 in return. I gave them the materials, they used them in their craft to make a tangible material, then only gave me a portion of what was crafted with my materials. To me, that seems like stealing.

I'd like some other opinions on the matter, though.


-=EDIT=-

Not going to answer the same questions over and over. I'll post several facts below:

1.) I asked specifically for a transmute-specced Alchemist
2.) He approached me, not the other way around.
3.) He returned the 100g to me that I paid in tip after he procced one.
4.) The man in question actually returned the second Truegold Bar in a mail, apologizing and admitting he was wrong.
5.) I did pay him back the 100g I gave him as the initial tip.

[Deleted]

you gave him mats for 1 truegold, he gave you 1 truegold. i think its up to the crafter to decide what happens to the extras they make. it would be nice if they were all kind and gave them to us

[Deleted]

Its defiently something you need to ask people before you trade materials.. i would say that its your own mistake

[Angoth]

If you didn't specify, then you got the service you asked for. 1 Truegold.

I advertise 'Truegold CD available - Free if I keep procs'. I ask specifically when I get a pst what deal they want.

If you don't clarify, then why are you complaining? You got your one Truegold.

[Deleted]

I love how Alch always gets QQ and other proffs don't...don't get me wrong, if there was 3 bars you would get 2, 4 bars you get 2 aswell, 5 bars you get 3. I try sharing in a way both people get what they want.

[zexcis]

Personally I give the procs to the person whose mats I used, but he was the one who chose transmute specialty and used his gold/mats to aquire the low chance to proc extra. Is it fair to him to use his daily transmute and probably proc a free bar for the first time in a month and have to give it away?

It would be one thing if the proc was 100% and he just decided he got to keep this one, but were you giving him your mats specifically because you expected two bars? Would you have opened a ticket complaining about the proc rate if he'd only gotten one?

[XenuMC]

Why are you entitled to it? Seriously. I specced transmutation so I could keep the extra bars and make profit with my specialization. You are giving me materials for 1 truegold bar, you get 1 bar. If you really want the extra bar then you should say so up front so we can come to an agreement over it.

I am the one who went to Outlands and farmed materials for my specialization. If you really feel you are so entitled to my profits you should say so up front or stop crying.

[Warwithin]

you gave him mats for 1 truegold, he gave you 1 truegold. i think its up to the crafter to decide what happens to the extras they make. it would be nice if they were all kind and gave them to us

Actually, that is incorrect. I gave him the materials for a [Transmute: Truegold] which "Transmutes pyrium bars into truegold."

Nowhere within either description is a number involved. I am paying for the transmute, supplying the materials for the transmute, and expect the product of the transmute in exchange for any predetermined payment unless specified otherwise prior to the transaction.

I see nothing wrong with my assumption given the above logic.

[Deleted]

Who levelled alchemy and who didn't specify they want any proccs? You have your answer there.

Also double threat ftw.

[Histidine]

While I feel for your predicament, learn a lesson from this- as it will face you in real life as well. Always, always, ALWAYS specify beforehand in any deal EXACTLY what both parties stand to gain from the exchange. Learn this well before you lose actual money.

[Xayla]

Establish rules up front. It's not hard.

[Deleted]

Did he say you would get possible procs before you gave him mats? If not, good riddance.

[Grimtor]

He even gave you your 100 g tip back?

You didn't specify you want the proccs. I wouldn't even give you the tip back, you paid for 1 truegold transmute and that's what you will get, Unless we specify otherwise before I transmute

[zachie]

What the person above me said tbh...

You gave him mats for 1 truegold, you got 1 truegold, be on your way...
So unless you made a deal with him where you could keep any proccs your ticket wont be anything but useless.

To me, it's the same as if I were to give an Alchemist the materials for 20 flasks and they only gave me 18 in return. I gave them the materials, they used them in their craft to make a tangible material, then only gave me a portion of what was crafted with my materials. To me, that seems like stealing.

Your reasoning is flawed here, the right thing to say would be: lets say that alch is an elixir master, you give him mats for 20 flasks, he proccs 5 extra, he now has a total of 25 flasks from your mats. he gives you 20 and keeps those 5 to himself, you got what you asked 20 flasks, just like you got what you asked, 1 truegold...

Edit: as i might come across as some jerk, i really hate scammers, no matter how (in)valuable something is scamming is wrong, but in this situation you got what you asked for, the man did no harm, and if the particular GM that will handle your ticket will go trough your chatlogs most likely he will see that there is no deal made about extra procs, just the deal to craft a truegold, thus, unless you set the rules in advance a ticket wont help^your case.
So in the future, you either discuss what happens with extra procs so there's a clear rule about it, and if you dont, swallow your greedyness and be happy that you've got what you asked for.

[Amiboshi]

To me, it's the same as if I were to give an Alchemist the materials for 20 flasks and they only gave me 18 in return. I gave them the materials, they used them in their craft to make a tangible material, then only gave me a portion of what was crafted with my materials. To me, that seems like stealing.

Except that you gave him the materials for one Truegold and not two. If you did not specifically seek out a transmute master and discuss with them before that you wanted the proc, then it is completely your fault. Honestly you should be happy, on my transmute master I don't even let people invite me to group, that way they have no idea if I proc an extra or not. That avoids the situation you are in. Be happy he kindly returned the 100g tip, I probably would not have been that kind, especially after you made such a fuss.

[Angoth]

unless specified otherwise prior to the transaction.

Which you failed to do.

[Nitrak]

Unless it was specified in the chat between you two, you have no rights what so ever for the truegold, it is sad but true.

If you had specified you are paying 100g for craft + proc, then the GM would give you back the truegold, but unless that is specified in a chat between you two, he will not, i am sorry.

[mrps4200]

Why are you entitled to it? Seriously. I specced transmutation so I could keep the extra bars and make profit with my specialization. You are giving me materials for 1 truegold bar, you get 1 bar. If you really want the extra bar then you should say so up front so we can come to an agreement over it.

I am the one who went to Outlands and farmed materials for my specialization. If you really feel you are so entitled to my profits you should say so up front or stop crying.

Because he pays 100g for a transmute
/facepalm

Your reasoning skills makes me cry.

Actually, that is incorrect. I gave him the materials for a [Transmute: Truegold] which "Transmutes pyrium bars into truegold."

Nowhere within either description is a number involved. I am paying for the transmute, supplying the materials for the transmute, and expect the product of the transmute in exchange for any predetermined payment unless specified otherwise prior to the transaction.

I see nothing wrong with my assumption given the above logic.

Exactly. How this isn't obvious to anyone who keeps track of the economy at all is beyond me.

[Deleted]

Would never give someone my truegold procs from my shaman. They pay a 50g tip for 1 truegold and expect an extra 1-4 depending on how much it procs they just silly.

[Warwithin]

Exactly. How this isn't obvious to anyone who keeps track of the economy at all is beyond me.

I'm glad someone can sympathize with me.