Has Blizzard forgotten about PVP?

[savvasp]

Battlegrounds : You can do them since like lvl 10 . You do the exact same that only give you honor and enjoyment

Raids : You only do them if you're at the required level and u set it to a difficulty you want , and go there IF you need something from that place

Completely different things . PS : I'm a PvP:er

[Bloodrose]

Oh no, they're well aware of PvP, they put stupid nerfs in place for PvE because of PvP. Don't you worry about a thing.

[Arkaan]

You just got three new BG's?

Actually it's two BGs, cause TolB doesn't really count as a BG.... Also, TolB is pretty dumb, and I hate to say it but it's so true, WG > TolB.

Also, there is pure lack of innovation in the two new BGs. Nothing new. Twin Peaks is just WSG on a diff map, no new mechanics. I don't dislike Twin Peaks, i think it is ok... but really? How hard is it to come up with a new mechanic to win? Battle of Gilneas is essentially Arathi Basin with 3 nodes instead of two. But, it was so poorly designed that it is clearly the worst BG we have atm, causing the games to pretty much be a "Whoever caps the 2nd node first wins" type of game. I mean, in RBGs, especially in 2500+ RBG ranks, it's just a stalemate at the WW the entire game, and often no one dies lol. Thus, whoever starts Ally side wins since they can get to LH faster first. How brilliant is a game design when you can win though no one dies?

Blizz talked big for Cata saying they were all focused on PVP, but in reality everything was poorly implemented and was very buggy.

Examples:
Loss/Win bug in RBGs when Cata was released. Lasted nearly 3 months (75% of the games you played, even if you won, counted as a loss).
No new arena maps in Cata (In fact they removed the Arena of Valor).
Stupid WSG change (Why change the staple BG that most people didn't complain about for 6 years?)
TolB failure in the beginning of Cata's launch.
SOTA failure design change at Cata's launch
Broken PVP ques (Sometimes you will sit in que an hr+ with no pop... bug still exists).
The arena MMR exploit at start of Cata expansion where they had to reset the season (Sucks for people who already put in all the work legitimately)
Because PVE progression was "TOO SLOW" they kept delaying the release of 2200 weapons.

Hmm... sounds like Blizz really put in some effort into PVP in Cataclysm. Their greatest minds and their best quality control people were on the job clearly.

[Kraai]

Hahaha.
I'm sick of all the QQ and complaining from PvP players about a "PVE" game.

They continue to nerf spells and skills for PvP. I'm sorry but how is that fair to us?
Suck it up. You get new battlegrounds every expansion.

---------- Post added 2011-05-21 at 12:14 PM ----------

But still they added PvP, battlegrounds, ranking system, arenas. Just because you want it to be a PvE game doesn't make it a PvE game. Blizzard started the PvP long ago and it's not like they are gonna stop all the sudden.

The game was MADE to be PvE in the first place. They added PvP to be icing on the cake.

While I do enjoy my icing an entire cake isn't made from it. As a matter of fact the "bread" of the cake (PvE) is the most important part.

[DiscoGhost]

Hahaha.
I'm sick of all the QQ and complaining from PvP players about a "PVE" game.

They continue to nerf spells and skills for PvP. I'm sorry but how is that fair to us?
Suck it up. You get new battlegrounds every expansion.

your argument is illogical. if i give the same respond as "how is it fair to pvp'ers" it would make just as much sense. its called trying to balance two aspects of the game. you dont make any sense.

[DiNet]

Last year all nerfs are due to PvP. Abilities change due to PvP. Talent changes due to PvP. Hell, even interrupts are change for PvP...
UMAD or what? Most of content is changed coz of PvP and game gets only worse because of that.

[Deleted]

Hahaha.
I'm sick of all the QQ and complaining from PvP players about a "PVE" game.

They continue to nerf spells and skills for PvP. I'm sorry but how is that fair to us?
Suck it up. You get new battlegrounds every expansion.

PVE game? I'm pretty sure if they ONLY focused on PVE from the beginning there wouldn't be more than few 100,000s playing the game right now. I say this because without PVP, PVE would be boring as hell. Most people who hate PVP suck at it that's why they don't bother doing it. PVP is a HUGE part of the game and I'm pretty sure you've heard of tournaments with REAL prizes.

We get new BG every EXPANSION. You get flipping new quests/dungeons/raids EVERY PATCH!

[FreakEyy]

Hahaha.
I'm sick of all the QQ and complaining from PvP players about a "PVE" game.

They continue to nerf spells and skills for PvP. I'm sorry but how is that fair to us?
Suck it up. You get new battlegrounds every expansion.

---------- Post added 2011-05-21 at 12:14 PM ----------


The game was MADE to be PvE in the first place. They added PvP to be icing on the cake.

While I do enjoy my icing an entire cake isn't made from it. As a matter of fact the "bread" of the cake (PvE) is the most important part.

Let's see here. This expansion we got 2 remade bg's while PvE got 3 raids. A but load of dungeons, another 2 remade dungeons, an incoming fourth raid and more planned.

Last expansion we got two new BG's while PvE got, 1 remade raid, then what, 5 more raids? Another butt load of dungeons.
And as you said, PvE is the cake, PvP is the icing. But as far as I know. People do tend to like the icing more then the cake. And the cake is there to make it more... well more to eat.

[Deleted]

Last year all nerfs are due to PvP. Abilities change due to PvP. Talent changes due to PvP. Hell, even interrupts are change for PvP...
UMAD or what? Most of content is changed coz of PvP and game gets only worse because of that.

I'm not talking about changes, I'm talking about the LACK OF CONTENTS. Read before you troll.

[Stanton Biston]

Yeh it has been primarily a PvE game, and the BG's first took places months after the release. But as of today it's also one of the biggest PvP mmorpg games. If not the biggest.

Based on what?

I mean. Really.

[Edge-]

All PvP needs is a deathmatch style BG and it's fine. No objectives. Just a straight up battle for X minutes or till X kills.

[Autumn xD]

The two newest arenas are awful and last expansions two new BGs were awful. The current ones are fine as is.

But will someone explain how the argument about classes getting nerfed because of PvP is a bad thing?
If one class has their DPS lowered while another is raised, the total DPS of the raid remains the same.
If your raid composition is off and you don't have all of the buffed and nerfed classes leading to your raid DPS dropping, the boss still remains downable, either with more precision or more gear.
The only reason I see people complaining are because their personal DPS has lowered.
Except, of course, if a class drops to the state of un-playable, but the complaints people have are not at that level.

Mind you, I definitely believe Blizzard should be having a PvE and a PvP side to abilities, but I don't understand all of the complaints.

[FreakEyy]

Based on what?

I mean. Really.

There is no other game with as high population as WoW. And what for other game arrange something as big as the arena tournaments?

[Deleted]

All PvP needs is a deathmatch style BG and it's fine. No objectives. Just a straight up battle for X minutes or till X kills.

That would be very nice indeed. I reckon 10-20 players in an arena with same or similar ilvl would be amazing lol.

[Hairyzac]

Compared to other MMO's I think you can be glad Blizz even gives the PvP base new content. You should be thankfull of Blizz insted of blaming them.

Yea you could say in Wrath they didn't care too much about PvP imo in regards to new content. But Cata they really have stepped things up. They gave us a new wsg map (twin peaks and I really like it) and an arathi basin type game (battle for gilneas not a huge fan) with 3 nodes instead of 5. And, they gave us RATED BATTLEGROUNDS! Something all of us have wanted since Classic ended and arena/resilience was introduced. RBGS really has started the revival of large group PvP and Blizzard sees this. The new daily quest hubs in 4.2 will also bring with it more great world PvP like Tol Barad Peninsula has. On my server, there is constant world PvP on the Peninsula and it is great. Keep in mind I am not talking about the battle for TB. I'm speaking of the northern peninsula.

Ontop of this, they are slowly changing battlegrounds to 10v10 specifically for RBG competition, since RBGS are 10 man only. They have already implemented Arathi Basin 10 man into RBGS. Next patch they will be releasing Eye of the Storm 10 man and the nodes will be Arathi Basin style capture nodes.

So far of all the new changes, 10 man Arathi Basin is the coolest by far. Basin map with 10 instead of 15 is just amazing. I love it. Can't state it enough.

I am impressed with what Blizzard has done regarding the above. As far as class balance in PvP which I'm not even sure if this thread is about...that will always be difficult to do. Striking a balance for PvP and PvE for classes abilities is not easy. Tweaking a class ability because it is underpowered in PvE, may make it very powerful in PvP. Or vice versa. They do the best they can when it comes down to things like that I feel.

But there are always some changes they will make regarding PvP (that have NO effect on PvE) that make me go, "whaaaaaa?" Sometimes, to me, these types of changes seem unwarranted and thoughtless.

[FreakEyy]

That would be very nice indeed. I reckon 10-20 players in an arena with same or similar ilvl would be amazing lol.

That would be something like everyone zerg down 1 guy, no healers. And all the team do the same. Until its down to five people and then the trouble start.
If you had healers they wouldn't be able to keep the first guy they pick to nuke down up.
So imo, its a terrible idea.

[Dayn9]

I don't feel like pvp needs as much new content (not as often at least) as pve does, raiding 1 year in the same raid would be terribly boring (cf : ICC), while many people still don't mind WSG (I'm one of them) after 6.5 years.

If you want new content every patch, go pve.

PS : I'm a pvper

[InfernalKatana]

There is no other game with as high population as WoW. And what for other game arrange something as big as the arena tournaments?

So it's not that warcraft is the best PvP game, or that it's a good PvP game at all, it's that there are more players playing warcraft than other games?

[Hairyzac]

All PvP needs is a deathmatch style BG and it's fine. No objectives. Just a straight up battle for X minutes or till X kills.

I think people would just make teams consisting of very difficult to kill classes if the game truly hinged on the number of kills made before the battle ended. Like a bunch of prot wars/ferals/blood dks and resto shams/disc priests. Classes that can dish it out, and also take a ton of dishing as well. While this sounds fun in theory I'm not sure this is what most of us want. When you remove the objectives from a battleground, some classes become a lot less desirable to bring along. Although this is my opinion of course.

Arenas are death matches. Players wanted death matches all through classic and they were given them in the burning crusade in the form of arenas in the format of 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. People who play battlegrounds play them because they are a combination of a death match and a strategy game with a certain objective. This is what makes them fun. Instead of just roaming around as a group killing people the entire time, which you do in arena and out in the word, you have an objective to complete. Cap three flags for instance, and make sure you have returned your own flag before you capture your opponent's. Having an objective for winning that has nothing to do with the number of HKS is what makes battlegrounds so much fun, and much more interesting and challenging, to me, then arenas.

Again, this is just my opinion after hardcore PvP'ing in this game since 2005.

[Swaggah]

Battlegrounds : You can do them since like lvl 10 . You do the exact same that only give you honor and enjoyment

Raids : You only do them if you're at the required level and u set it to a difficulty you want , and go there IF you need something from that place

Completely different things . PS : I'm a PvP:er

RBG and Rated arena, only at the required level and the better you are the more difficult it gets.

battlegrounds are like 5mans , completely different things then what you mentioned.

So it's not that warcraft is the best PvP game, or that it's a good PvP game at all, it's that there are more players playing warcraft than other games?

I enjoy wow pvp because it doesnt have clunky mechansisms like 99% of the other mmorpg's out there