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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    It also doesn't make you immune to anything other than snares. You can still be stunned, feared, sheeped, Death Gripped, ect. And it prevents the Priest from doing anything other than moving.
    You mean just as deterrence (by being able to take dmg from dots you are not immune to dmg) it doesn't remove stuns/snares either



    deterrence lasts 5sec, anything cast and in the air when pressed will still hit any dots/bleeds will tick for same amount of dmg and you are unable to do any dmg (not even wingclip/raptor strike) compare that to some of the other abilities that you are able to use while holding the flag, heck even popping feign death drops the flag so the only thing we CAN do to "defend" ourselves beside running is silence casters xD..

    so what do we have

    warriors can shieldwall/shield block enraged regen/retalliate (don't know bout brostorm)
    dks can AMS/IBF/coilheal/AMZ
    paladins can't do anything (though justified seeing as buble as is is)

    locks can port with le flag(not 100% sure)/netherward/shadowward/coil /mr demon form (yes I will give locks that they don't have an abundance of hard shields but they have potential)
    mages got nuthin' (besides frostshield/images/mana shield)
    priests got depending on spec either hard CD combined with healing or as shadow Le dispersion

    Rogues got cloak/smokebomb/wombat readiness/evasion
    ferals got SI/barkskin/kittystand/baerform! for los tankos
    boomies/restos are stuck with only barkskin + barkskin glyph and le passive heals they can pump out..

    shambams got shamatic rage if specced enhance and le totemshield + los passive heals..

    hunters got deterrence/roar of sacrifice (<3 effin life saver) + a lack of reliable heals
    Last edited by Dunee; 2011-05-24 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Mufasaprime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunee View Post
    You mean just as deterrence (by being able to take dmg from dots you are not immune to dmg) it doesn't remove stuns/snares either



    deterrence lasts 5sec, anything cast and in the air when pressed will still hit any dots/bleeds will tick for same amount of dmg and you are unable to do any dmg (not even wingclip/raptor strike) compare that to some of the other abilities that you are able to use while holding the flag, heck even popping feign death drops the flag so the only thing we CAN do to "defend" ourselves beside running is silence casters xD..

    so what do we have

    warriors can shieldwall/shield block enraged regen/retalliate (don't know bout brostorm)
    dks can AMS/IBF/coilheal/ AMZ <= Unholy dks only
    paladins can't do anything ( besides heal themselves, hammer stun twice (if ret) hand of freedom and LoH

    locks can port with le flag(not 100% sure)/netherward/shadowward/coil /mr demon form (yes I will give locks that they don't have an abundance of hard shields but they have potential) + Fear / Howl
    mages got nuthin' (besides frostshield/images/mana shield/ Blink )
    priests got depending on spec either hard CD combined with healing or as shadow Le dispersion

    Rogues got cloak/smokebomb/wombat readiness/evasion Sprint, readiness, sprint again / Shadow step (if the correct spec and an enemy infront of you)
    ferals got SI/barkskin/kittystand/baerform! for los tankos + insta cyclones with the correct ability useage, roots
    boomies/restos are stuck with only barkskin + barkskin glyph and le passive heals they can pump out..

    shambams got shamatic rage if specced enhance and le totemshield + los passive heals.. AND FROST SHOCK!, and slowing totems, and ghost wolf form

    hunters got deterrence/roar of sacrifice (<3 effin life saver) + a lack of reliable heals + Aoe frost traps, single target frost traps, snakes that slow
    bolded part fixed for you
    Last edited by Mufasaprime; 2011-05-24 at 10:39 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mufasax View Post
    bolded part fixed for you
    I deliberately didn't take movement improving effects (read blink/disengage/sprint/shadowstep/charge/intercept/intervene/leap/wolf) aswell as cc (clones/fears/sheeps/traps/hexes)

    also didn't include hunter traps since I was in an arena mentality and thus all trap cds goes for CC (aka freezing trap) and by freezing trap the snake trap is just a killer since it spreads a deadly poison that ticks for 25dmg on all effin targets.. besides they nerfed the slow from it so it is no longer 70% crippling poison but rather 50% slow, so equivalent to our concussive shot (even worse than glyphed conc shot).
    all this was excluded due to it being a discussion regarding defensive cds and flag carrying

    but yeah you got a point in sprint/blink/disengage(in some cases)/wolf/dudu forms/leapvenesept(warrior shit) and offensive stuns are highly effective when defending a flag.

  4. #24
    Warchief Whisperawr's Avatar
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    I didn't even know Hunters couldn't do this, and I would expect them to be able to... this sounds ridiculous...

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    Then again, who in their right mind would use a hunter as FC in a Rated Battleground. I would have no problem with them being able to use it, at least. There's no reason to.
    rocket boots jump spin disengage + parashute of the gy side of the enemy base, momentum from boots keeps you fast until you hit the floor and with parashute that takes a while.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    rocket boots jump spin disengage + parashute of the gy side of the enemy base, momentum from boots keeps you fast until you hit the floor and with parashute that takes a while.
    Except you cant use rocket boots while carrying the flag.. but good try thou.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunee View Post
    Rogues got cloak/smokebomb/wombat readiness/evasion
    I lol'd. Inc new feral form!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Except you cant use rocket boots while carrying the flag.. but good try thou.
    I think he means goblin rocket jump.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-25 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Renowned View Post
    I lol'd. Inc new feral form!
    Yeah I laughed at that too.

    Seriously though, it does seem kinda incongruous when compared to stuff like dispersion, cloak of shadows, AMS...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperawr View Post
    I didn't even know Hunters couldn't do this, and I would expect them to be able to... this sounds ridiculous...
    One deterrence wouldn't be to much of an issue, but when MM hunters? use that ablilty that resets all their abilities it's over the top.

    10sec of not being able to do anything to the flag carrier is not ok.

    edit: haven't played a hunter since wotlk so they might not be able to do 2x deterrence anymore for all I know.

  10. #30
    Warchief Whisperawr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post
    One deterrence wouldn't be to much of an issue, but when MM hunters? use that ablilty that resets all their abilities it's over the top.

    10sec of not being able to do anything to the flag carrier is not ok.

    edit: haven't played a hunter since wotlk so they might not be able to do 2x deterrence anymore for all I know.
    Yeah I haven't played Hunter since the end of WotLK either, and they still can double deterrence. 10 seconds seems eh... haha.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Eggwolls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunee View Post
    You mean just as deterrence (by being able to take dmg from dots you are not immune to dmg) it doesn't remove stuns/snares either



    deterrence lasts 5sec, anything cast and in the air when pressed will still hit any dots/bleeds will tick for same amount of dmg and you are unable to do any dmg (not even wingclip/raptor strike) compare that to some of the other abilities that you are able to use while holding the flag, heck even popping feign death drops the flag so the only thing we CAN do to "defend" ourselves beside running is silence casters xD..

    so what do we have

    warriors can shieldwall/shield block enraged regen/retalliate (don't know bout brostorm)
    dks can AMS/IBF/coilheal/AMZ
    paladins can't do anything (though justified seeing as buble as is is)

    locks can port with le flag(not 100% sure)/netherward/shadowward/coil /mr demon form (yes I will give locks that they don't have an abundance of hard shields but they have potential)
    mages got nuthin' (besides frostshield/images/mana shield)
    priests got depending on spec either hard CD combined with healing or as shadow Le dispersion

    Rogues got cloak/smokebomb/wombat readiness/evasion
    ferals got SI/barkskin/kittystand/baerform! for los tankos
    boomies/restos are stuck with only barkskin + barkskin glyph and le passive heals they can pump out..

    shambams got shamatic rage if specced enhance and le totemshield + los passive heals..

    hunters got deterrence/roar of sacrifice (<3 effin life saver) + a lack of reliable heals
    Shamanistic Rage only reduces 30% damage taken. When you're a FC, you typically deal with a lot of incoming damage (especially with the stacked debuff), which means Shamanistic Rage may only save you another second or two. Self-healing as enhancement is reliant upon hitting things to proc Maelstrom. Otherwise, the cast time is slow, the heal is weak, or the cast time is fast, but you oom after 2 heals. If you are healing yourself while Sham Rage is up, it would be better, but oftentimes it isn't feasible to stop and heal when you are carrying a flag. The BEST thing about Sham Rage is being able to use it while stunned. Passive healing is a totem you have to be in range for that doesn't spot heal for that much. Stoneclaw totem doesn't absorb THAT much damage considering how much you will be taking (it didn't scale well imho), and you have to be in range for it.

    All in all, the shaman's tools will only keep you alive MAYBE a few seconds longer. We don't get immunity to any sort of damage at all. Deterrence may not make you immune to ALL damage, but there are some damages you are immune to while using it, and that is what makes it unacceptable.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    rocket boots jump spin disengage + parashute of the gy side of the enemy base, momentum from boots keeps you fast until you hit the floor and with parashute that takes a while.
    except you can't use parachute nor rocket boots any more.. (yeah no more disengage parachute to actually move some distance) and yes this is from a RBG PoV I do know you can use parachute in normals


    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Shamanistic Rage only reduces 30% damage taken. When you're a FC, you typically deal with a lot of incoming damage (especially with the stacked debuff), which means Shamanistic Rage may only save you another second or two. Self-healing as enhancement is reliant upon hitting things to proc Maelstrom. Otherwise, the cast time is slow, the heal is weak, or the cast time is fast, but you oom after 2 heals. If you are healing yourself while Sham Rage is up, it would be better, but oftentimes it isn't feasible to stop and heal when you are carrying a flag. The BEST thing about Sham Rage is being able to use it while stunned. Passive healing is a totem you have to be in range for that doesn't spot heal for that much. Stoneclaw totem doesn't absorb THAT much damage considering how much you will be taking (it didn't scale well imho), and you have to be in range for it.

    All in all, the shaman's tools will only keep you alive MAYBE a few seconds longer. We don't get immunity to any sort of damage at all. Deterrence may not make you immune to ALL damage, but there are some damages you are immune to while using it, and that is what makes it unacceptable.
    Yes it is only 30% from SR and a 16k shield from stoneclaw as well as spiritwolves healing you while being while being immune to movement impairing effects while that spirit wolf sprint is up aswell as the passive healing from le maelstrom....

    If we are in your scenario and being focused down then yes deterrence will be quite a help, BUT we will most likely be fully dottet up, still be slowed/rooted thus taking a beating much like how you would.. it's different kinds of ways of defending, but it is a way of defending defending none the less...


    also yes it's called Wombat readiness !

  13. #33
    Since when can they not detterence? I remember double deterrencing as an FC to save my ass in normal bgs back when I played my hunter a few months ago..

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