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  1. #21
    Good guide! If i got time tonight or tomorrow i'll help you with the index/anchors.

    Cheerios!
    It's like we are all Red Jelly Beans in a Jar full of various colors. Every now and then they reach in and get a Red Jelly Bean.
    We know we are in there, we can see the color, we just can't do anything to speed up our being taken out of the jar -- Jelly Beans can't speak.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Cheers Nocturnes. Seems people are still creating new threads asking stuff I have covered

    Should add some glyph info this weekend.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bobty View Post
    Stamina
    Our health pool is still an important factor as a tank, but much less so than it was in WotLK. Not to mention that even DPS gear will now give you as much stamina as a tanking piece will. There is no need to focus on stamina for the majority of tanks(that is all the tanks doing 5 mans, normal raids and also a large chunk of heroic raids)
    I think this is profoundly controversial.

    In practical play, the relative value of stamina subjectively has a lot to do with your overall gear level relative to the encounters you are trying. For example, during the first week or two of Cata, starting up the first few raid boss fights on regular in mostly 346 gear (possibly some 333's, and maybe a couple crafted or rep epics), Stamina felt incredibly important.

    The reason that the majority of middle-of-the-road raiding tankadins disparage the importance of Stamina is because by the time reasonably informed guides started popping up on sites, the majority of players were already well-overgeared for the content they were progressing through. If you're in full 359 starting T11 hardmodes, your gear already has more stamina and armor than the encounters were necessarily tuned around. If on the other hand, your guild cleared all the normal modes and started pushing hardmodes before getting completely epic'ed out, you would have felt the need for gemming stamina.

    TL;DR -- Mastery stacking is an ilvl-overgeared strategy for players in guilds that need more gear than is strictly necessary to defeat encounters.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    As only the cutting edge guilds, or extremely unlucky drop guilds attempt hard modes without most or all 359 gear it is still extremely relevant.

    Most guilds that are working their way through heroic modes also do not tend to drop doing normal modes altogether, especially when the core of their raid team still need a reasonable amount of items from them. For instance as Halfus is almost always the first heroic boss guilds go for, whilst double dragons is considered moderately hard. It is not a stretch to say guilds will still clear the rest of the instance weekly on normal after doing Halfus.

    Both myself and many other prot paladins cleared all normal bosses with half blue gear, and likewise got heroic bosses down with at least a handful of blue slots remaining. Doing so with a mastery centric setup.

    TL : DR - This guide isn't written for cutting edge players. Fights across the whole tier favour mastery from normal 5 mans through to the majority of heroic bosses the average raider may encounter.
    Last edited by mmoccff815c062; 2011-06-17 at 08:36 PM. Reason: learned me some english

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobty View Post
    Although Dodge and Parry both completely avoid an incoming physical attack they also suffer greatly from diminishing returns from around the point you have mostly 346 item level gear
    I think it would be valuable for people to understand the significance of diminishing returns at that gear level.

    Supposedly, it takes 176 dodge or parry rating to give you 1% chance. By 11% chance, adding another 176 rating will give only about 0.83% chance, and the higher your chance goes up the less each rating will be adding.

    Whether or not this qualifies for "suffer greatly" at the 346 level or not is subjective; you're effectively wasting 1/6 of the budget points from the stat by adding some, but you're certainly still getting significant improvement.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    I could go into DR in more detail but I am trying to just give more of an outline for less experienced tankadins. Maintankadin, elitist jerks and most likely some other theorycraft sites go into more depth for the players that are interested.

    The point I am basically trying to make in the quoted statement is that diminishing returns affect essentially all protection Paladins. Mastery becomes the go to stat as soon as you start putting together a tanking set for the troll heroics or raids.

  7. #27
    With the 4.2 patch change to Seal of Righteousness. Is it any better then Seal of Truth at single target or AoE tanking?

    Seal of Righteousness now can be activated by any melee ability, not just single target melee abilities. This adds Hammer of the Righteous (the physical component) and Divine Storm to the list of abilities that can activate this seal. In addition, Seal of Righteousness procs can now be critical effects.
    also glyph change

    Glyph of Seal of Truth expertise bonus now also works when Seal of Righteousness is active.

  8. #28
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaugznis View Post
    With the 4.2 patch change to Seal of Righteousness. Is it any better then Seal of Truth at single target or AoE tanking?
    Seal of Truth will still be your seal to use. The only AoE that paladins get out of Righteousness is if you're Ret with the Seals of Command talent. The change to the glyph was primarily to make Ret AoE less of a pain (due to loss of expertise from seal swapping).
    Host of Talking Skritt, a GW2 podcast!

  9. #29
    The Patient chris1554's Avatar
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    http://wowtal.com/#k=-kfXNjer.b0w.paladin. should be the new spec, covers AOE and single target perfectly fine and drops guarded by the light which is now virtually useless. On another important note, stamina does come in useful, for anybody aiming for progress I highly advise carrying different trinkets and different gems with you. Dependant upon the fight, I switch between my mastery trinket, mastery stamina trinket ( alch, these 2 make me reach full CTC coverage) and my 2 stamina trinkets.

    Firelands has alot of magic damage, from my point of view CTC isn't too important but is still useful depending on the fight.

    Edit: Reasoning for 1 talent in reckoning is due to the amount you block, you don't need 2.
    Last edited by chris1554; 2011-07-04 at 12:58 AM.
    Tankadin in Aurora. 6/6HC MSV 6/6HC HOF 3/4HC Terrace 3 days a week (25).

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Thank you this guide has come in handy for me. Rolled a paladin for the first time since vanilla and I'm loving it. Also thanks for the macro!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1554 View Post
    http://wowtal.com/#k=-kfXNjer.b0w.paladin. should be the new spec, covers AOE and single target perfectly fine and drops guarded by the light which is now virtually useless. On another important note, stamina does come in useful, for anybody aiming for progress I highly advise carrying different trinkets and different gems with you. Dependant upon the fight, I switch between my mastery trinket, mastery stamina trinket ( alch, these 2 make me reach full CTC coverage) and my 2 stamina trinkets.

    Firelands has alot of magic damage, from my point of view CTC isn't too important but is still useful depending on the fight.

    Edit: Reasoning for 1 talent in reckoning is due to the amount you block, you don't need 2.
    Not really going into magical damage arguements. Mirror was, and still is the best trinket for spell damage fights as far as I am aware. People used to cite nef heroic as a good fight for double stacking stamina trinkets, despite the on use spell resistance from mirror clearly being superior.

    You don't need hallowed ground unless you are look at maximising AOE threat, which is largely a moot point unless you can create two prot specs anyway. GBTL is still the best choice for survival talents given your options. Either you max out AOE threat which is generally not needed and by extension a waste, or you specc into increasing the healing from WoG which will increase your survivability when used correctly.

    Also thanks Jim0r

    I just hope more people read my guide as opposed to just asking stuff I have covered because they can't be bothered to read two pages of text.

  12. #32
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    I like this guide.. it helped me with my 2 open questions
    Thanks for this!

  13. #33
    The Patient chris1554's Avatar
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    That spec works perfectly fine for Aoe, single target and surviving. Guarded by the light is a totally crap talent now. Same goes for Eternal Glory. I was rolling with 2 specs before 4.2 but due to the change I was able to make it into 1 and still have the same effectiveness in raids.

    Carrying a variant of trinkets is what I was talking about, not stacking stamina. I was talking about - if a boss does alot of magic damage, switch gems out from pure mastery to something else, etc. Put on TB trinket and a stamina one, or whichever takes your fancy. If people didn't use 1 stamina trinket and the TB trinket for Nef HC then they are quite silly.
    Last edited by chris1554; 2011-07-03 at 04:51 PM.
    Tankadin in Aurora. 6/6HC MSV 6/6HC HOF 3/4HC Terrace 3 days a week (25).

  14. #34
    Any one here have thoughts on a dif cape chant? 250 armor seems next to worthless.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  15. #35
    250 armor is the only cloak enchant prot gets any appreciable benefit from whatsoever unless you're a tailor.

  16. #36
    I was thinking maybe the crit chant, seems like 50 crit would provid more for threat than 250 armor would for mit. I mean whats 250 armor >.25%?
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Depends how much you want to enchant one of the weakest threat stats going as opposed to reducing the physical damage you take on a fight.

  18. #38
    If you need to enchant for threat, you're doing something horribly wrong and probably have l2p issues. Outside the first few seconds of a pull with clueless/careless/"lucky" dps unloading too early, threat is a nonissue for paladins and crit is an all but wasted stat.

  19. #39
    Not saying I need to enchant for threat Im saying that 250 armor is LOL to the point of almost being worhtless.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    Not saying I need to enchant for threat Im saying that 250 armor is LOL to the point of almost being worhtless.
    We haven't disagreed with you, we just pointed out that threat enchants *are* worthless vs 250 armor being nearly worthless. Prior to the change to agility, that was a viable cloak enchant for the (very small) dodge bonus but now armor is really the only useful cloak enchant for pve prot.

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