Bring back TBC raid progression.

[Cognition]

That's not a progressive story like he said. They interacted absolutely zero, a quest saying "Get a vial from Vashj and Kael" is not an overarching storyline. The only time bosses between different tiers of raiding ever had any in game interaction outside of a quest was Arthas' taunting you after killing Kel'thuzad, and him sending Anub'arak to screw over the tournament.

TBC raids were all self contained story.

Somebody hasnt done the Deathsworn quest line... And my point wasnt the storyline of the raids my point was the storyling of going from Kara epics to T4-5-6 when you rguild was good enough. It was the best feeling iv had in wow progressing through alll that. Why did i inspect ppl you ask? Well that proove smy point.. that was a time when inspecting ppl was an intersting thing because people had very different gear to each other from palces you only heard about. Compared to now,.. when you know what gear ppl have without inspecting because its all the fucking same.

Bring back the times where all the gear in the expasion was relevant the whole expansion, rather then JUST the gear thats in the latest patch.

[Seranov]

As someone who raided through all of BC, I can strongly say FUCK THAT.

I ran Karazhan every week for nearly a year and a half. I'd rather not have to do that again.

[Cognition]

only at the very very end.

Exactly. Stupid post from tryana, that stuff came right at the end, and even then it wasnt the actual tier gear, it was some random shit with decent stats, for extreme high prices. (200 badges this, 100 badges that). That was like 20+ instances for ONE of those pieces

[Recondition]

Blizz thinks making new content availible to bad players will make them more money.

There are roughly 6 billion people in the world, of which maybe 12 million have played wow at one point or another.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that there will never be a person who joins wow in cataclysm, if you join the game late it's easier to gear up in the current style and jump headfirst. As long as it's not as ridiculous as gearing up got during tier 10 then I'm ok with it. The good news is you can't just jump into Firelands on a new toon without going 12/12 normal modes in tier 11 if you want your hands on a legendary.

[Echohunter]

Think of this...

If Vanilla and BC started with all the nice(ISH) itemization, talents and abilities we have now it would have been a whole lot easier than you remember it being. It would have been a lot better to since warrior could really only tank and druids could only heal in Vanilla.

Bullshit. Any class could reasonably fulfill any specs roles. The gear for it was just more time consuming to obtain since a tier only appealed to a single role. We had a druid tank and multiple dps warriors in our MC and ZG runs.

[Cognition]

As someone who raided through all of BC, I can strongly say FUCK THAT.

I ran Karazhan every week for nearly a year and a half. I'd rather not have to do that again.

You must have sucked... once you had th egear from there you moved up the scale.. i raided it for about 4 months, once a week, and grull/mag after we geared up a little also during that time.

[Chaoslux]

Here's BC without nostalgia goggles:
Oh no, we lost a tank! We have two options for now:
- Gear up a new tank, force ourselves through Kara, SSC and TK, Hyjal maybe, for two weeks while we try to not get that tank just straight up killed going into BT and Sunwell. During that time, we are doing things we've been doing for the past year and totally hate it.
- Second choice: Lets poach another guild, and get a tier 5 geared tank from them!

In that Tier 5 guild:
Oh no! We lost a tank because he joined that uber guild. we have two options
- Slave ourselves and backlashing on progression for 3 weeks while we are.
- Steal a tank that's fully geared from Karazhan/Gruul/Mags from a guild thats barely making their attendance works.

Then SUNWELL happened. Which is what happened up here, but even WORSE since you couldnt afford to poach from tier 5 guilds, you had to steal from other Tier 6 geared guilds.

[Cognition]

There are roughly 6 billion people in the world, of which maybe 12 million have played wow at one point or another.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that there will never be a person who joins wow in cataclysm, if you join the game late it's easier to gear up in the current style and jump headfirst. As long as it's not as ridiculous as gearing up got during tier 10 then I'm ok with it. The good news is you can't just jump into Firelands on a new toon without going 12/12 normal modes in tier 11 if you want your hands on a legendary.

First of all the had around 13 million subscribers at ONCE during wrath, not including the millions and millions who have played and have stopped playing. So saying 12 is well off.

Secondly, my point of this thread is you WILL be able to go into firelands without going 12/12 because the epic valor gear is going to be buyable with justice points. Meaning do a few heriocs, buy full epic gear and head into firelands.

Then next patch it will be do a few heroics, buy FIRELANDS gear with justce points from those heroics and head over to C'Thun, or whatever the raid may be. This is a sef destructive system because it means that all the work they put into fire lands, wont even be being seen by ppl who start raiding in 6 months time, because it will be OLD CONTENT, AND HEAVEN FORBID WE RAID OLD CONTENT WHEN WE START OUR RAIDING ONCE WE HIT 85.

[lightz]

As far as attunements go, i agree... felt alot more like an accomplishment to raid, when you had to do attunements. like the ssc/tk attunements.. all great quest lines.. followed by the hyjal attunement, needed to clear ssc and tk, and of course the bt attunement, also great quest line, had to kill first boss in hyjal to be able to go to bt, although alot more people werent raiding, it felt cooler.

[Cognition]

[QUOTE=Chaoslux;11603778]Here's BC without nostalgia googles:
QUOTE]

Googles? Are you saying i should google nostalgia?

Goggles*

Aside from that, you have a very grim view and my guild raided for 3 years and that happened ONCE. What we did was just get our paladin to go his respec to tank, since he had picked of OS pieces here and there as we raided. FANCY THAT! WHO WOULD OF IMAGINED!!!

[rhorle]

Bring back the storyline of gearing up and progressing through the raids, not this bullshit about ONLY THE LATEST PATCH RAID MATTERS, EVERYTHING ELSE GOES IN THE BIN! I honestly dont even feel like raiding.

If you would like to progress up through the tier progression, then what is stopping you? What is stopping you from doing heroics to do t11 to do t12? Are you incapable of playing the way you want? Are you incapable of finding like minded people to have a guild that plays that way? There are plenty of guilds out there that are niche roles. From low level guilds, to all one race, to level 60/vanilla guilds.

The power is yours, and only yours. What does it matter if others choose to do it differently? Don't be concerned with others and just be concerned with your journey. Don't play any differently then the way you want because blizzard allows you to approach progression any way you want.

Not to mention you can still inspect people in their t12 and say hey they are good. Or people in their heroic gear and say hey they are good.The only difference is you aren't a scrub in t4, but one of the scrubs that had t6. If you are in heroic gear now you would be having the same gear induced feelings, since its the same sort of gear gap. Also you mentioning pride seems to indicate that you aren't proud of progression kills now. Why not? It should still invoke pride no matter what gear anyone else has, since you are doing it yourself.

[Exera]

Well the snake lady, Kael, Illidan, Mount Hyjal and Kill'Jaeden all were linked together.

I'm quite sure you could add magtheridon in there as well seeing as he got kicked out of BT by Illidan.

The only raid so far this expansion that is not linked with the storyline in this expansion is Tot4W, every quest in TH is linked to BoT(just because it doesn't give you a quest to pick up something from a boss in there doesn't mean theres not a storyline), BWD is linked to the whole Cataclysm storyline, and I mean the entire storyline.

Firelands is linked to EVERYTHING you did while questing in MH.

In TBC you only actually only did the quests because you HAD to not because you wanted to, because face it the quests that you had to do wasn't really all that great.

[the9tail]

I do believe sir that your rose colored glasses are on. Please remove them and realise the player base does not agree with you otherwise changes would of been made. There have been many steps taken to improve the experience for players with less time to play and the skill curve has been lowered as well. Its time for you to accept the state-of-the-game.

[Exera]

Blizz thinks making new content availible to bad players will make them more money.

No they think making OLD content available to bad players will make them more money.

[Chaoslux]

As far as attunements go, i agree... felt alot more like an accomplishment to raid, when you had to do attunements. like the ssc/tk attunements.. all great quest lines.. followed by the hyjal attunement, needed to clear ssc and tk, and of course the bt attunement, also great quest line, had to kill first boss in hyjal to be able to go to bt, although alot more people werent raiding, it felt cooler.

It felt cooler when YOU did it. It felt HORRIBLY Mind-crushingly BORING when you had to go through it for the 20th time because you just got a new recruit.

[Ethes]

It would absolutely kill recruiting!

[rhorle]

Then next patch it will be do a few heroics, buy FIRELANDS gear with justce points from those heroics and head over to C'Thun, or whatever the raid may be. This is a sef destructive system because it means that all the work they put into fire lands, wont even be being seen by ppl who start raiding in 6 months time, because it will be OLD CONTENT, AND HEAVEN FORBID WE RAID OLD CONTENT WHEN WE START OUR RAIDING ONCE WE HIT 85.

The fact that they are releasing new content already means all the work they put into past content gets devalued. You can still raid old content with the new content is around. People can see the old content if they want and have never done it. Plenty of people still do wotlk raids and did old wotlk raids during WOTLK just for fun and to do encounters they didn't get a chance to do when it was a current raid.

Many people will still do easy old raids because it provides a source of Loot. Be it justice, valor, gold, legendaries, or profession materials. But its wrong to give people the choice to play how they want. If we use your method you would have to start with BRD-LBRS-UBRS-MC-BWL-AQ40-BC 5-mans-Heroic bc 5-mans - Kara - Gruuls - Mag- SSC - TK - BT - Hyjal - Sunwell etc just to do Firelands.

That isn't a good game. Masochists are no longer needed for game design because developers are actually creating quality products instead of inserting terrible and annoying elements to games just because its what has always been done. The fact that wow still have 10 million subscribers means they are doing something right that other games are not.

If their designs were so terrible, then why are they so popular? Could it be that you have the unpopular/bad view where as blizzard has the popular/good view?

[Exera]

It would absolutely kill recruiting!

I remember how effective it was to recruit when one of your requirements was "Must be attuned to MC, Onyxia, BWL, SSC, BT and MH", I also remember how incredibly fun it was to have to go back and clear SSC for the seventh million time and DE every single piece of gear just to get that one recruit attuned due to the fact the requirements you set got you very little recruits.

Good times those attunements was, good times.

[rhorle]

It felt cooler when YOU did it. It felt HORRIBLY Mind-crushingly BORING when you had to go through it for the 20th time because you just got a new recruit.

Exactly. However with guild-based achievements it would be quite easy for blizzard to implement guild attunements. Where they guild, in a guild group, has to do the quest lines/tasks/whatever to unlock X. Would be interesting way to bring them back while still allowing for new recruits to be ready for the role they need to fill.

[Rork]

I agree with the OP, TBC raid had depht from Karazhan to BT it was a long journey, lots of memories discovering new raids and new bosses you can say what you want about progression, nerf and raid/stuff accesibility, the guy is right it was a freaking adventure.