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  1. #21
    The problem with relying on a raid healer to keep inspiration on the tank comes from that the heal on him or her also has to crit. You may throw a heal that land on the tank every now and then but with current levels of crit on gear (and often even more so on priests not geared for tank healing) you have to be a bit lucky still to land a crit on the tank every 15 seconds.

    Btw, didn't Zusterke had a guest post at World of Snarkcraft about inspiration uptime with some math attached once upon a time? If you can find that it may have some relevant info still. It's most certainly for pre-cataclysm content though the inspiration mechanic hasn't really changed since it went from increasing armor to damage reduction late 2009.

  2. #22
    inspiration and ancestral healing is a flat 10 % dmg reduce. on the tank, its 100 % up if the shaman is keeping a riptide on him (any decent shaman would do this).
    The benefit is not only the tank dmg reduce, but also the raiddmg reduce. 10% is huge, and having a big coverage of this buff in the raid means 10 % less dmg to heal in ae heavy situation, this 10 % can make or break some situations (sink of nef ae or maloriak red phase).

    so 2 healers with inspiriation / ancestral guarantee a higher uptime in the raid, which is cool. On the tanks, it will be always up from the shamans hot alone.

  3. #23
    I know I'm rusty on the fine details of shaman healing, but how does keeping 100% uptime on RT equate to a 100% uptime on AH [assuming the shaman has "normal" levels of crit for a raid healer].


    Also, AH & Insp are a flat 10% physical damage reduction, and very, very few abilities meant to hit healers/dps are physical. In fact, the only unavoidable physical damage that will be taken by a dps or healer in T11, I believe, is Halfus' roar. Insp. is almost exclusively only useful on tanks.

    Now, personally, when I raid heal as Disc in a 25man raid, I don't pick up Inspiration. I will not spend effort to "try" and keep it up on the tank(s) when my job is to keep 22-24 other people alive. Will I throw a heal on the tank? Of course, but only if they are "critical." If there is a dedicated tank healer, and its not me, then I trust them to do their job. My healing patterns when disc raid healing would result in a very, very low Inspiration uptime, assuming I was the only one in a 25man raid with the buff.

  4. #24
    i was wondering a few things about disc which i recently changed to.

    playing in a 10 man guild, with a holy pally and druid healer with 6 hc progress. we kinda heal ffa whenever its possible.

    it's never the paladin comming on to of the healing for tanks and in fact he's rather low on healing all the time. is it paladins in general or is it becos me and the druid snipe tank healing? i would gladly give the pally more space but honestly i dont think he's quite on the ball. so does it make me mostly tank healer if i come on top of healing done on tanks? or shall i just back off to shielding the raid more and pressure the pally into doing more healing?

    i'm leaning towards dropping attonement and picking inspiration but honestly healing without assignments been a little of a puzzle for me... it's only a casual guild, i think they like the casual ffa attitude until there's a problem we cant overcome with "common sense" which hasnt happened yet, but on the other hand i like giving the most of my character.

    i'm only looking for opinions, unfortunately we dont run logs, so i cant provide those.

  5. #25
    A tough call if your guild has a FAA mentality. Your paladin should be able to not only rock tank healing, but provide a pretty solid amount of raid support through Jesus Beam(tm) and Radiance. His overall HPS should be comparable, especially in a 10player setting.

    In a casual guild setting without any healing direction, do what is most fun to you. If "fun" is AA, and you using your AA spec isn't the margin of error of your guild's success [or lack there of], then rock on with your bad self. However, if tank death is a common problem in your guild, and your tank dying a lot isn't very fun, then you may want to go with a tank healing build and focus primarily on keeping him or her alive.

    Alternatively, you can attempt to lay down the law and get your healing team to start thinking in the terms of assignments, which should make your spec decision more clear and you'll be better able to identify weaknesses that need to be addressed.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
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    I'll just throw a quick question of a doubt I have with my recently leveled discipline Priest which can also help on the topic.
    Is Soul Warding really worth it? Are you Shield-spamming really often? I feel like it's wasted mana most of the time and it's even worse if the whole shield doesn't get used (now with 15 seconds..).

    Personally, I hate that talent right now so it offers me 2 more points to spend around.

    Could you give me opinions on this? Maybe I don't realise how useful it can be in some situation..

  7. #27
    thanks for your input spiritus, i thik you're right, at certain level of progression assignments become a necessity. i never use nowhere near as much atonement as i would like to already, not enough to justify all them talent points sunk into it, although it will take certain amount of fun from content on farm and it makes me a little sad.

    khatsoo i tried specc without soul warding for a brief moment and you wouldnt belive the amount of times you wished you had the talent to save someone's life :P
    u might not spam shields for majority of the fight but there will be moments where a shield with no cooldown will be priceless

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by khatsoo View Post
    Is Soul Warding really worth it? Are you Shield-spamming really often? I feel like it's wasted mana most of the time and it's even worse if the whole shield doesn't get used (now with 15 seconds..).
    Pretty much what CodeM said.

    I may be the most vocal anti-shield spam person ever, but that doesn't mean that I don't find use for 2,3,4, or 5 consecutive shields. 2/2 SW is worth the investment for any role of disc priest. For the raid healer it gives you a powerful, expensive tool when you need it [H. Maloriak purple phase, for ex.]. For the tank healer, it allows you to use PW:S consecutively when 2+ tanks are present, as well as use it as an emergency button for any GCD for a spot shield on the raid. Since you should be throwing down a PW:S on the tank at least every 7-8ish seconds, w/o SW it means you have a very slim margin to use the tool on anything other than the tank w/o interrupting your PW:S uptime.

    In short, PW:S is still a very powerful tool and you should want the capability to cast consecutive shields, even if it isn't every GCD you use.

  9. #29
    Spiritus, without hijacking the thread, can I have a direct question to you (ofc also interested in others opinion).

    If you go with A/A spec, as above, which talents are better to max, SoS or Inspiration?
    Details: mostly tank healing, with assist on melee's (that is where atonement comes into picture). Holy priest already in raid (2x Inspiration, raid heal duty), and also a holy paladin as 3rd healer (10 men normal raid setting).

    So the question is: go for a sure 10% melee dmg reduce, or more shields -> more absorbs, lesser spikes, but obviously more mana intensive. Right now, I'm leaning towards SoS.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by deemer2150 View Post
    So the question is: go for a sure 10% melee dmg reduce, or more shields -> more absorbs, lesser spikes, but obviously more mana intensive. Right now, I'm leaning towards SoS.
    My opinion? Drop AA and pick up Insp & SoS. If you need to assist with Melee, put em in the group with the tank and press PoH when applicable. That would be my recommendation.

    However, if you just like having AA [nothing 'wrong' with that], and you are tank healing normal encounters, then Inspiration. To explain further, the problem with Atonement is it does not apply Inspiration and it does not work w/ SoS. So, all things considered, having AA and using it as your 'filler' when assisting with melee healing interfaces with neither Insp., nor SoS. However, keeping the melee in the tank group allows you to use PoH, which can apply Inspiration, so you can still benefit from the talent for your primary role [tank healing] while assisting melee.

    To be flatly honest, SoS shouldn't be the make or break between winning or losing a normal mode encounter. If you feel it is, then there are bigger fish to fry for your guild.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by deemer2150 View Post
    If you go with A/A spec, as above, which talents are better to max, SoS or Inspiration?
    Details: mostly tank healing, with assist on melee's (that is where atonement comes into picture). Holy priest already in raid (2x Inspiration, raid heal duty), and also a holy paladin as 3rd healer (10 men normal raid setting).
    You can get both. I usually run this spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfGorRsbfoMochM. You basically give up ToT and 2% haste, neither of which is really that good.

  12. #32
    Aye thanks for the input, I'll take the good advices.

    Something in my head wants me to keep that atonement/archangel, truth to be told, I'm pretty satisfied with my output using it. Having a strong faith in blizz knowing what they are doing, I'm keeping it as far as the grp doesn't suffer.

    Currently on Nefarian, I can handle my job very well. That being said I'm not sure I'd do such on hard mode, but it's not our purpose - not for now, anyways. Smite not proccing inspiration is quite sad, actually... especially that I know it does not refresh grace either. It does offer a lot of absorbs through DA, so again, I'm trying to stay positive about it.

    SoS ruled out then for now, too bad, but life goes on. Truth to be told, now you mention I do not spam too many great heals, having a lot of Penances and even inner focused PoH-s available a lot, not an extreme necessity. I still feel somewhat limited lacking such an awesome thing as reduced weakened soul, but life goes on I guess.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-30 at 03:58 PM ----------

    Thank you, I'm never ever going to give up ToT, it's just too great for my atonement + penance. However I do think darkness is overrated at times, my gear provides enough at the moment anyways. Good amount mastery, balanced crit and haste.

  13. #33
    To be clear, for you or anyone else reading, I'm not saying that AA isn't worth the investment for any disc priest, I just don't recommend it to any disc priest that is tank healing as a primary role.

    The reason I hold on to ToT when tank healing is the IF reduction via GH usage, which is much more common on hardmodes and, again, for tank healing, far more reliable than AA.

  14. #34
    Absolutely clear Spiritus, I'm making the needed adjustment in my role with the other healers, so we all can be the most effective.

    Our team is rather dynamic when it comes to this anyways, I guess that is why we had no issues so far whatsoever. Lesson for the masses: always adapt to the others as well as to the task given.

  15. #35
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses on the Soul Warding talent. I guess in 5-mans the talent loses more utility and maybe that's why I thought that the talent wasn't worth it.

    Priest is my fifth alter, but healing a Discipline is attracting my atention the most.
    So, another quick question to enlighten me and keep improving with priests.

    The talent Borrowed time, as, again, you're not using Shield that much, is it worth it? I guess that with some of the arguments used before it will, as you're using shield more often, but just for knowledge.

    Also, I've been using the talent Surge of Light as it also procs from Smite. Do you find it any good? I can barely notice the haste from Darkness and I don't really need it to reach another tick of Renew because I don't use it as Disc.

    I guess some of these questions would answer a bit by themselves if I was raiding more with my priest, but anyway, knowledge is always welcome, who knows if I'll be Disc-healing in Firelands!
    Thanks in advance.

    Edit> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../upyr/advanced My armory link if I can get help in some other way.
    Last edited by khatsoo; 2011-06-08 at 11:42 AM. Reason: link to armory

  16. #36
    I don't recommend SoL.
    I smite for one reason: stacking up Evangelism and go ballistic with AA up. Look at your logs: how many times do you really use those spells to make a 6% chance worth spending 2 points?
    Considering you're smiting mostly in low-dmg phases, why would you need a free FH?
    Furthermore there is no synergy with FH like for Holys with Serendipity.

  17. #37
    Yeah, I ran SoL a few times to test, and I'd rather have 2%/3% Haste. I know I can feel the difference, but I also think .5sec is a literal lifetime in WoW healing.

    Borrowed Time is a must for any Disc priest. Even if you don't prioritize PW:S, you'll still use it often for the talent to be worth it. As I said, it is hard for PW:S not to be the #1 or #2 contributor to your HPS. It is a core ability and you will use it often. [NOTE: Which doesn't mean you have to use it exclusively, or even primarily].

  18. #38
    So why don't we take Strength of Soul? I fail to understand is it mana inefficient or just not useful because when tank healing our bubbles suck anyway?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Darktheist View Post
    So why don't we take Strength of Soul? I fail to understand is it mana inefficient or just not useful because when tank healing our bubbles suck anyway?
    Disc raid healers do not take SoS because the number of times you'll cast FH, Heal. or GH will be few.

    It is mandatory, however, for Disc tank healers... IDK where you got the impression that PW:S sucks when tank healing. SoS is the bow that ties together the nice synergy disc tank healers enjoy.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    Disc raid healers do not take SoS because the number of times you'll cast FH, Heal. or GH will be few.

    It is mandatory, however, for Disc tank healers... IDK where you got the impression that PW:S sucks when tank healing. SoS is the bow that ties together the nice synergy disc tank healers enjoy.
    I see, thanks for the reply

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