Theralion's Mirror and us?

[Deleted]

Abusing the Theralion's Mirror proc is something we shuold do to gain most DPS, aka cast MB as soon as it procs and be sure to cast a MB right before the proc ends. My question however is: should I cancel my Shadow Orbs so I can continue to cast Mind Blast after the proc has ended and I still have a buffed Empowered Shadow up. Of course I do not want to override my ES with a weaker one so I am currently holding off my MB during this time but I ahve thought about if you gain DPS by canceling shadow orbs and casting a orbless MB.

What are you opinions on this?

[Haedess]

When i used TH (got atramedes hc trinket now) I didn't really think about the proc :P
the only thing i'm doing that has anything to do with procs is to refrsh DP when my DCM card and power torrent are up.

[Culexus]

Abusing the Theralion's Mirror proc is something we shuold do to gain most DPS, aka cast MB as soon as it procs and be sure to cast a MB right before the proc ends. My question however is: should I cancel my Shadow Orbs so I can continue to cast Mind Blast after the proc has ended and I still have a buffed Empowered Shadow up. Of course I do not want to override my ES with a weaker one so I am currently holding off my MB during this time but I ahve thought about if you gain DPS by canceling shadow orbs and casting a orbless MB.

What are you opinions on this?

You should just stop casting mb if you cant fit another mb cooldown in. When you cancel them and use mb you have the possibility of not procing a new one until the trinket wears off and you have the possibility of a shadow orb procing right in the second your mb cast ends. Both will result in a dps loss that is much more than just not fitting in an additional mb.

[Fuzz]

Since you asked for opinions and not math, I personally keep it up and refresh DP right before it goes out. Would love to see some beautiful math on the subject though

---------- Post added 2011-05-27 at 03:48 PM ----------

You should just stop casting mb if you cant fit another mb cooldown in. When you cancel them and use mb you have the possibility of not procing a new one until the trinket wears off and you have the possibility of a shadow orb procing right in the second your mb cast ends. Both will result in a dps loss that is much more than just not fitting in an additional mb.

As long as you proc an orb before ~10s left the odds are on your side, I've had 17 MFs without an Orb though so it can bite you in the ass.

[Culexus]

As long as you proc an orb before ~10s left the odds are on your side, I've had 17 MFs without an Orb though so it can bite you in the ass.

Jeah we all know these situations where it feels like you are just not getting an orb for a minute or so .

[Xcuse]

You should just stop casting mb if you cant fit another mb cooldown in. When you cancel them and use mb you have the possibility of not procing a new one until the trinket wears off and you have the possibility of a shadow orb procing right in the second your mb cast ends. Both will result in a dps loss that is much more than just not fitting in an additional mb.

Relatively sure OP was talking about "My Empowered Shadows is up with the mastery of the trinket. Trinket buff has ran out. I have a shadow orb. I want to cast MB without overwriting my empowered Empowered Shadows - I'll clear the Shadow Orb buff so I can cast MB. Does that sound like a good idea?"

No it doesn't to me.

[Culexus]

Relatively sure OP was talking about "My Empowered Shadows is up with the mastery of the trinket. Trinket buff has ran out. I have a shadow orb. I want to cast MB without overwriting my empowered Empowered Shadows - I'll clear the Shadow Orb buff so I can cast MB. Does that sound like a good idea?"

No it doesn't to me.

Ah okay. Misunderstood the post. Thanks for clarification. In this case. Yes i would say use your mb anyways. But i cant back it up with math.

[schoenkid37]

No that will not be a good idea, 0 orb mind blast is already not much farther ahead of mind flay for DPET, and since mind flay is technically a DoT it gets the benefit from the 2k some mastery added to your ES. If mind flay did 35% more damage than it currently does, it will have a higher DPET than mind blast with 0 orbs, therefore its not worth the time or effort to cancel orb procs.

Personally what I do is refresh my ES with mirror proc ONLY when the time left on mirror proc is > 11 seconds (I've found anything less might not yield another orb) as you need to cast MB again with 2 seconds left on the proc to benefit. This means in the 9 seconds between time 11s and time 9s you can recast all your dots in about 4.5 seconds and flay for about 4.5 seconds to get one orb. Delaying mind blast during this time and after the mirror proc expires but you still have buffed ES is the best case dps scenario. Hope this helped

[Deleted]

Well, we (should) be using mind blast on cooldown even if it doesn't have orbs - so yes, I think it's a good idea. Only DPS you lose is the (fairly small) extra MB damage from the shadow orb, and gain a fair few stronger MF's as well as a longer duration of strong DoTs.

[Solia]

Hmm, interesting idea that I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up; especially considering how this reminds me of Aura cancelling Shadowmourne buff (and even Wrath Boomkins)?

Our 3 options are:
a) do not cast Mind Blast at all until the Empowered Shadow(+) proc is over,
b) aura cancel orbs, allowing us to cast 2-3 Mind Blasts, (would a macro like /auracancel Shadow Orb /cast Mind Blast work?)
c) cast a 2 or 3 orb Mind Blast but override the Empowered Shadow(+) with a regular one.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

When i used TH (got atramedes hc trinket now) I didn't really think about the proc :P
the only thing i'm doing that has anything to do with procs is to refrsh DP when my DCM card and power torrent are up.

No offense, but then you are not maximising your char = getting carried. Theralions Mirror HC is miles ahead of HC Bell (which you should have passes to your Locks and Mages anyway), would even use normal Mirror instead of HC Bell-

On topic: Do a MB (with a orb) asap when you get the procc, then you just have to look at the timer of the proc and judge if you can fit in 2 more MBs before the procc runs out. I usually just MB when I get the procc, then MF until it's 2 sec left, then MB. You just have to get used to the trinket, judging if you can get 3 or 2 MBs off with the proc becomes 2nd nature after raiding with the trinket for a while.

[Martinussen]

Jeah we all know these situations where it feels like you are just not getting an orb for a minute or so .

i've tried to not get an orb procc in 1:30 min...

i just try and "save" an orb after my first one if my TM didnt procc as it'll usually proc quickly.

but i think that the strong ~41% ES shouldn't be able to be overwritten by the weak ones which in my case is ~25%

[Deleted]

Great how if Blizzard implemented dynamic DoT updating of Stats, we wouldn't need to worry about all of this crap.

Personally, I MB as soon as possible, re-apply DoTs and try to fit as many MBs in the buff duration, I then stop casting MB untill emp shadows has almost run off and refresh DP/VT, I then MB again.

I think canceling orbs and casting MB would be a good idea actually, but it's so RNG, it'll become just fustrating.

[Solia]

Great how if Blizzard implemented dynamic DoT updating of Stats, we wouldn't need to worry about all of this crap.

This would be a nerf to our DPS due to how S.Priests are actually abusing the proc at the moment.

[Twintop]

Great how if Blizzard implemented dynamic DoT updating of Stats, we wouldn't need to worry about all of this crap.

Personally, I MB as soon as possible, re-apply DoTs and try to fit as many MBs in the buff duration, I then stop casting MB untill emp shadows has almost run off and refresh DP/VT, I then MB again.

I think canceling orbs and casting MB would be a good idea actually, but it's so RNG, it'll become just fustrating.

I'm not l33t with macros, but couldn't you make one that removed any Shadow Orbs and use it in lieu of a normal Mind Blast when you have ES up (manually, of course)? Something like:

#showtooltip Mind Blast
/cancelaura Shadow Orb
/cast Mind Balst

[Kilee25]

What I have been doing in this situation is cast Mind Blast after the last refresh of dots which would put me in a situation where I'm not going to refresh them again before the Empowered Shadows runs out.

Sequence:

1. Revelation (Theralion's Mirror's proc) procs
2. Mind Blast as soon as possible
3. Refresh dots, cast until Revelation is almost over
4. Mind Blast right before Revelation ends
5. Cast as normal, refresh dots one last time
6. Mind Blast whether the buff is over or not.

Basically I don't care if I over-write ES if I've just refreshed my dots and they won't be down again before the current ES ends.

[Deleted]

I'd love to see a 'a more powerful spell is already active' when trying to apply a weaker ES than is active. sadly it's not the case and so:

I just don't use MB, however looking at my DPET from simcraft it would be a DPS gain to cancel orbs and use MB (assuming I then have MB with orbs ready to activate ES after the buffed ES ends)

[Kayona]

Bare in mind that MF also scales with mastery. I guess with the ES(+) it should be able to do competive DPS to an 2orb-MB.
No math, just a thought

I would keep the ES(+) as long as possible and refresh the DoTs right before it ends if they aren't effected by some powerups (DMC:V, Power Torrent, Potion).

[Solia]

I'd love to see a 'a more powerful spell is already active' when trying to apply a weaker ES than is active. sadly it's not the case and so:

Well, then we'd go back to the issue of power vs duration (nevermind that this buff isn't even directly casted, since it's an effect off casting MB.)

Ultimately, I foresee Blizzard nerfing this for S.Priests so that we won't be able to extend a Mastery proc like we can now. Their reasoning will be that this current way is too much micro managing (let's not kid ourselves, managing ES procs is by far the hardest part of playing a SPriest this expansion, nearly impossible to maximize it without mods like PA and NTK.)

[Deleted]

What I have been doing in this situation is cast Mind Blast after the last refresh of dots which would put me in a situation where I'm not going to refresh them again before the Empowered Shadows runs out.

Sequence:

1. Revelation (Theralion's Mirror's proc) procs
2. Mind Blast as soon as possible
3. Refresh dots, cast until Revelation is almost over
4. Mind Blast right before Revelation ends
5. Cast as normal, refresh dots one last time
6. Mind Blast whether the buff is over or not.

Basically I don't care if I over-write ES if I've just refreshed my dots and they won't be down again before the current ES ends.

Problem is, you want to refresh your DoTs right before the buffed ES ends. By overriding it with a weaker ES, you basically reduce the time your DoTs are buffed.