[Megathread] Secret World Legends

[Ashnazg]

I'd prefer a sub fee without a cash shop than a F2P/B2P with one.

[Edge-]

most is a bit of an overstatement isn't it? all the big games are still monthly sub, altho SWTOR is talking about going F2P, but other then that i can't rly think of many F2P games that are moderately big

LOTRO, Aion, Lineage 2, Vindictus, DDO, STO, Champions Online, CoH, AoC, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard (soon), Fallen Earth...I could go on.

Subscription only games: WoW, EVE, SWTOR, Rift, TERA, TSW (soon) and...I'm about out of ideas (I'm tired).

[Larynx]

LOTRO, Aion, Lineage 2, Vindictus, DDO, STO, Champions Online, CoH, AoC, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard (soon), Fallen Earth...I could go on.

Subscription only games: WoW, EVE, SWTOR, Rift, TERA, TSW (soon) and...I'm about out of ideas (I'm tired).

B2P: Lonely GW2

[Buckwald]

I wouldn't mind a B2P + cash shop, if the cash shop just had cosmetic item and +exp boosts type items that didn't break the game. I LOTRO is the only F2P game I play. And even then they give you very little to play with when you start. It's like yeah 20% of their game is F2P but you still have to drop $60+ to get the full game any way.

[Arrowstormen]

LOTRO, Aion, Lineage 2, Vindictus, DDO, STO, Champions Online, CoH, AoC, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard (soon), Fallen Earth...I could go on.

Subscription only games: WoW, EVE, SWTOR, Rift, TERA, TSW (soon) and...I'm about out of ideas (I'm tired).

Don't you buy a box to play LOTRO? It has expansions too, doesn't it?

[Edge-]

Don't you buy a box to play LOTRO? It has expansions too, doesn't it?

Nope. The expansion you can purchase gives you a bunch of rewards and the cash shop currency, but as far as I know you don't need to buy the expansion box to get access to at least some of the expansion content. I may be wrong though as I haven't looked into it that much.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind a B2P + cash shop, if the cash shop just had cosmetic item and +exp boosts type items that didn't break the game. I LOTRO is the only F2P game I play. And even then they give you very little to play with when you start. It's like yeah 20% of their game is F2P but you still have to drop $60+ to get the full game any way.

I think seeing the current market, they are killing their own game by adding a 15$ subscription model. Even a 5$ subscription would make a huge difference for people. Me included. Though I'd rather see a one time purchase and a cash shop for those who want it, personally.

[Maelle]

LOTRO, Aion, Lineage 2, Vindictus, DDO, STO, Champions Online, CoH, AoC, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard (soon), Fallen Earth...I could go on.

Subscription only games: WoW, EVE, SWTOR, Rift, TERA, TSW (soon) and...I'm about out of ideas (I'm tired).

Quite a few of the F2P games you mentioned there are "old" games, which were sub-based in their hay days, and have since gone F2P, rather than actually being F2P games by design.

[Edge-]

Quite a few of the F2P games you mentioned there are "old" games, which were sub-based in their hay days, and have since gone F2P, rather than actually being F2P games by design.

I don't see how that makes them any less relevant to the discussion. If anything, it shows that for moderately successful games (none of them are really "failures", since we've already seen that "failures" get closed down), transitioning to a F2P of a F2P/Hybrid business model is far more profitable.

That and most are games that were part of the "WoW bubble" where everyone tried to get in on the action of P2P games. Now though, F2P has shown itself to be a massively successful business model and superior to P2P exclusive for most games.

[Maelle]

I don't see how that makes them any less relevant to the discussion. If anything, it shows that for moderately successful games (none of them are really "failures", since we've already seen that "failures" get closed down), transitioning to a F2P of a F2P/Hybrid business model is far more profitable.

That and most are games that were part of the "WoW bubble" where everyone tried to get in on the action of P2P games. Now though, F2P has shown itself to be a massively successful business model and superior to P2P exclusive for most games.

Well, I was more highlighting the fact they were supposed to be popular games you listed. They only went F2P after their main popularity had decreased. So while they are still popular-ish they are not exactly in a position to be demanding a full-monthly fee anymore anyway.

Kind of like paying the same price for the two-day old bread, and the fresh bread in the supermarket. You would expect the older bread to be reduced.

[Edge-]

Well, I was more highlighting the fact they were supposed to be popular games you listed. They only went F2P after their main popularity had decreased. So while they are still popular-ish they are not exactly in a position to be demanding a full-monthly fee anymore anyway.

Kind of like paying the same price for the two-day old bread, and the fresh bread in the supermarket. You would expect the older bread to be reduced.

Meh, they weren't necessarily "unpopular". They were still profitable. They just though (rightfully so) that they could bring in more revenue through a F2P transition. Many of the games (CO/CoH/LOTRO/EQ2/DCUO/AoC ect.) still have the option for players to subscribe, and all of them saw an increase in subscriptions after going F2P (strange, I know). They've all seen a big jump in popularity overall since going F2P too (new players, revenue, concurrent users ect.)

And the old bread analogy isn't really very accurate. These games all still put out content updates and provide new things for players to do. Sure they may not necessarily be graphically up-to-date, or mechanically, and may be based off of a lot of currently "outdated" concepts, but that doesn't make them any worse than games that come out nowadays. Heck, people still play EQ1 (a 13 year old game) and other old games like Ultima Online, Ascherons Call (can't spell it), and DAOC despite how EXTREMELY outdated they are.

[Wewlad]

From the footage I've seen the voice acting is terrible...

[Edge-]

From the footage I've seen the voice acting is terrible...

>.>

The writing and voice acting has been the high point for me from what I've played in the beta.

[Repefe]

Pretty much this... unfortunately I can't warrant the price of the game plus $15 a month.

I expect to buy the game, get my moneys worth in the first month maybe two and stop after that. Basically same deal as with usual b2p games.

[Wewlad]

>.>

The writing and voice acting has been the high point for me from what I've played in the beta.

I watched a few of TB's videos, and the first person you encountered made me cringe. Although I suppose it does get better.

[Maelle]

Meh, they weren't necessarily "unpopular". They were still profitable. They just though (rightfully so) that they could bring in more revenue through a F2P transition. Many of the games (CO/CoH/LOTRO/EQ2/DCUO/AoC ect.) still have the option for players to subscribe, and all of them saw an increase in subscriptions after going F2P (strange, I know). They've all seen a big jump in popularity overall since going F2P too (new players, revenue, concurrent users ect.)

And the old bread analogy isn't really very accurate. These games all still put out content updates and provide new things for players to do. Sure they may not necessarily be graphically up-to-date, or mechanically, and may be based off of a lot of currently "outdated" concepts, but that doesn't make them any worse than games that come out nowadays. Heck, people still play EQ1 (a 13 year old game) and other old games like Ultima Online, Ascherons Call (can't spell it), and DAOC despite how EXTREMELY outdated they are.

Exactly, they are out of date, but still good to eat You wouldn't want to pay full whack for them though!

All this comparing games to food has made me hanker after a snack...

I agree with you about the voice acting, and for me the quests and lore where the best things about the game. Sadly the fact that it runs like abosolute crap on my PC however I tinker with the settings has turned me off the game

[Deleted]

There is F2P (WoT, EQ), B2P (GW2, CoD) and P2P (WoW, SWTOR).

F2P is free to play, but might have cash shop (sometimes gives big advance like gold ammo in WoT, sometimes just vanity store) or big grinds which can be skipped (like in LOTRO).
B2P you buy once and then might have expansions. There is no monthly fee. Expansions possible, free or for pay.
P2P you buy once and then buy a subscription for. While the buy once isn't necessarily part of P2P (only the sub is) it is usually part of it. Expansions possible, free or for pay.

TSW falls in the third category (P2P), and it is very true this model is in decline since the last decenium.

I heard for LOTRO you need to grind so much for the expansion content that you're just better off buying the expansions.

I would buy this game if it didn't have a subscription fee, but sadly, it has one.

Well, it is summer, so many people have a lot of free time. You can probably see a lot of the game in the first month (it comes with a month of subscription).

This is what I did with SWTOR originally. But for some reason the game did not allow me to play immediately and forced me to set up a subscription or buy game time. So I had to buy additional game time in order to play the game. Which I did. Unfortunately my server was already dead in less than one month...

This is what I do in P2P MMOs: I buy the game, pay monthly (DON'T buy stuff like annual pass, 6 month sub, it is too long; you cannot be 100% sure what happens in your life if you are able to play much, or enough to warrant the sub, or if the game stays fun, or if they make patches/updates and when), and let the sub run out. If new content comes and I hear it is good I resub for a month to see the content. I don't join the grinds like dailies except in WoW, and there I don't do any content hardcore. This way I don't have too many subs active, and if a new game goes out it can influence if I want to resub for something or not.

I won't resub for SWTOR because I could care less for LFD (the PvE content is both boring and faceroll) and I can't say 15 EUR a month if worth it for me to play a lil bit of PvP. I've also paid more than enough for the game while not playing it.

PS: The voice acting is also top notch in my opinion.

[Cyclone Jack]

The story and writing for this game is impressively good, and very entertaining. The missions were fun, even some of the side missions. I also like that the game is open-group friendly when it comes to various objectives. The combat side of things is a little lacking, IMO. It's not inherently bad, just...old.

Still, I'm thinking of picking it up just to run through the content. I haven't played a game where I took notes in a long time.

[Jailbuild]

Are you sure your RAM is OK? How much RAM do you have? RAM is very cheap. I bought 8 GB for 50 EUR the other day.

My loading screen is near instant, but it is in every game. WoW, MoP, TERA, GW2, SWTOR (OK that one is the slowest). I use SSD, and mechanical SATA2 + RAID0 for games I don't often play. SSDs are afforable nowadays.

On my previous graphics card and before SSD with SWTOR I lowered my settings. That improved performance in WZ and also loading screens. There's nothing like waiting 2 minutes in Corellia before you can do your dailies... (which are boring as hell anyway, but that is a different discussion)

My systems are fine, This issue was something that has been known and reported to Funcom from the closed beta several months ago. it is an issue with the game not peoples hardware. The OOM error is almost always a software issue in my experience, be it from 3rd party software or from windows itself, if a sick of RAM is bad you know about it. Now I don't know if the issue has been fixed to any extent since I last saw it, but it's the first time I have seen it from an MMO. It isn't like the memory leaks in SWTOR where your system would start to slowdown if the client was left at the log-on screen for a long time along with some people getting graphic issues, you could see the system start to degradate from the resource monitor etc. The problem is just it fills up your RAM to the point were it gives you Out of Memory. as soon as the client is closed the RAM is cleared and the game works fine once re-launched, no blue screen or system crash. and It happened to everyone eventually, no PC is special or immune to it, it happens on both Intel and AMD systems and from 4Gb to 16Gb of ram. it was just a matter of time till it filled the ram up and dumped the error, some systems took longer than others ofc.

And please don't exaggerate your load screens are not "near instant" even if you were running your game from a RAM drive never mind an SSD your load screens aint even close to "near instant" especially in SWTOR and TSW.

[Odeezee]

Don't laugh at me. As I am going over what TSW's underlying gameplay mechanics and what it has to offer, if you take away hype and place GW2 and TSW on a level playing field, TSW might just beat it. The more I think about it, the actually gameplay that makes up the two games is somewhat similar.

- Combat is similar
no. TSW does not have an actual dodge, more a gap widener/melee avoidance on a 10 sec cd. there are also very few other skills which can help avoid damage other than "dodge". ranged skills heat-seek so they cannot be avoided. only true similarities are a small hotbar and active dodge. GW2 offers multiple ways to avoid damage, quick movement (due to active physics), many skills move the character to avoid damage (burning speed), and active dodging with other skills, traits and utilities which augment it's effectiveness.
- Player scaling is comparable
no. there may be no leveling in TSW but there is definitely gear scaling so if you go to a starter area you DO roflstomp content. just go from like q6 to q1 areas and see the level of carnage that you can unleash.
- Progression philosophies are somewhat comparable
not really. due to different player scaling, gear is far more important in TSW than it is in GW2. and as far as skill progression it is VERY much like GW1 from the hotbar, to the 2 weapon/class skill setup, to the bajillion skills and it take many of the issues GW1 had with a skill system like that, namely skill bloat and redundancy.
- Both offer non linear gameplay
eh, i disagree. in GW2 you are only mainly only limited by gear and skill, in TSW you are heavily limited by gear, skills and skill and the only way to gain AP/SP is through questing, there is no other avenue to "level" through to get skills that that as far as i noticed up to and through Bluemountain. also there was nothing to "discover" in the way you can in GW2 but going off the beaten path and having large areas to wander around in. i think for TSW that was such a greatly missed opportunity as the atmosphere and environments were practically begging to be explored, it just was very limited and in the end not worth it at all.
- The way gear is designed
i disagree, gear in TSW is very powerful especially if you get mats to craft your own stuff and quickly leads to content being trivialized
- Quest presentation
quests in the secret world require more thought than the average MMO and are very intriguing but are still plagued with fed-ex quests/kill quests and due to the limitations of the quest log you end up going multiple times to the same area as quests have you running around SO much and you cannot just interact with mobs for other quests and get them as you run around as without the quest you get no credit. imo, it's more akin to SWTOR's quest presentation but with some better and thought provoking quests.
- Persistent PVP Map
yes, they both have a persistent PvP maps, but the ones in TSW lack scope and depth and, due to the poorly animated and feeling combat, is not as engaging.

What's holding TSW back:

- Combat isn't fluid as GW2s despite sharing many elements with GW2
yes combat is not as fluid as GW2, but it also shares little with it.
- Apparently players really care about animations, TSW's animations suck (ironically its emotes are amazing)
yes, you have to look at them every time you want to execute an action so having them feel meaningful and deliberate as well as "cool" is essential for many gamers.
- Subscription. You would be surprised how many MMORPG players are completely over P2P games.
yes, as it stands i do not feel it is worth a sub. B2P or F2P imo.
- No dynamic events. Dynamic Events are "it" right now
yes, the game world looks very pretty and has a great atmosphere but it seems SO lifeless, excuse the pun, it reminds me of SWTOR all over again; pretty background with no substance and one which you cannot interact with or impact in any meaningful way. :/
- PVP. Its going hold up the devs. A lot of people aren't playing TSW with PVP in mind at all.
they should really just make TSW a PvE game at this point. i have been in CBT for the last 2-3 months and PvP is definitely not ready to compete with what is currently available or soon to be out.
- Its not a fantasy game.
i was initially draw to the contemporary setting and i think it has great potential, Funcom's execution just pains me as they always seem to have great concepts but no follow through.

What is TSW offers:

- Its not a fantasy game.
yes, choice and diversity is a great thing for gamers.
- The lore and environments is very familiar and pretty much untapped real estate.
yes, great looking environments and intriguing stories. they just need to fix their glitchy coding for certain environments like the Savage Coast where there are poor lighting transitions and crazy FPS drops.
- Quest will always be "grab x, kill x, etc" Thats video games. Thats life. They way TSW presents them is amazing though. The way they can hide you fetch and kill quest behind clever gameplay is also amzing.
eh, no the fetch quest are still rather apparent and this is exacerbated by having no mounts or fast travel system along with a restrictive quest log. after a while you just get "virtually tired" of running.
- Scaling is even less linear than GW2. The no level thing feels a lot better than downscaling in GW2. I can tune my own difficulty. I can choose to steam roll old content with my souped up build or run through it in a new build that I am progressing. Even with downscaling in GW2, you can't go back an redo hearts with your friends, you're only there to kill stuff and maybe do events. In TSW world, you can completely redo everything with them.
this is completely not true. like i said before gear and higher tier skills make such a big difference in TSW that scaling is non-existent. hearts in GW2 are not the main form of content delivery but more of a guide/something to do while DEs start, chain or are triggered. basically you can go from high level content in TSW to lowbie areas and not die as there will be no threat of danger, unlike in GW2 where you can and will still die.
- ARGs. ARGs. ARGs.
it is a very nice change of pace yes.
- Again the lore. The world feels so familiar as if it were just an parallel universe away. Every is more "real". Folklore and legends that have come to life. If you're one of those people who get immerse in their games, you're in for a treat. Its like playing an episode of X-Files, Supernatural, Fringe, etc.
yes that is a great addition to the MMO space and it is one way to comple players through content that i appreciate.


If by some miracle Funcom can get the combat in order and make the game B2P/F2P. I'm on board and will finance their cash shop.
you and me both. if only

remarks in bold.