[Megathread] Secret World Legends

[Odeezee]

You're assuming that the patch you last played will be released. As far as we know the CBT could be 1, 2, 15 patches behind. Or hey, it just might be the patch that's released. Beta testing ... oh sorry Beta is over so now it's "testlive" will continue through 28 June. Headstart on 29 June.

if Pvp was something that could be fixed in 3 weeks then yes you would have a point and if we are not testing the builds as Closed Beta testers, then who is? the devs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8TjtBrH2fs

Combat looks pretty much the same to me ...

talk about STRETCHING at best. just because he was using his 1 skill does not in anyway mean he did not have other skill he could have used and it certainly did not mean he was using it to build charges to execute other more powerful skills. that was a very sad reach you attempted to go for there and it saddens me that you would even stoop to that level. /sigh.

[staticflare]

Ok First off, I played the game for about 8 hours total throughout a weekend. Here is essentially what you said, "I DISAGREE WITH YOU THEREFORE I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME." Ok bro, that's a winning argument.

What does bad anatomy, their facial structure being off, as well as the joints and ratios, have to do with it being a fantasy game? It just has to do with bad modelers, there are countless games out there with the same realistic style they're trying to pull off but with great models that are anatomically correct, Mass Effect to mention one. The character models in TSW look and move awkwardly, in my opinion, and being that it's MY CHARACTER that I have to look at throughout the entire game, I hardly see how that bothering me is just me "arbitrarily finding something to pick on."

"Yes it's strange and awkward but," enough said. There is no 'but'.

First of you seem confused about the plural of ability, it is abilities, "ability's" is a possessive of ability as in "this ability's power". With that out of the way, obviously the skills between the different weapons look different, work differently, and have different synergies. But they all boil down to just a couple of resource mechanics, as opposed to let's say if you look at a game like WoW where you can find dozens of markedly different resource mechanics in the game. There is ONE skill wheel, so my standards for the depth and complexity of it will be naturally much higher. And when I compare TSW with a game like Rift, I see more interesting synergy and variability within a single class in Rift than I see with the entire ability wheel in this game, and then Rift has three more classes. If it's enough for you great, for me there isn't enough to chew on and I know I'd be bored with it within a month. The ability icons also look pretty terrible, which doesn't help.

No it's nowhere as difficult to design a piece of modern clothing than a fictional full set of armor. The reason being the hardest part of design is not creating the model is coming up with a concept. You can find all the "gear" in this game by flipping through a Macy's catalog, which from a design standpoint, makes it very easy to create. Your argument that it "doesn't make sense" for them to have armor I can't follow at all. So these super powerful and wealthy secret organizations you just got recruited into don't have the means to provide proper armor to their recruits? That's what doesn't make sense.

Yes, the puzzles were ok, the only thing in fact, I found interesting throughout my beta experience. But overall, my opinion, is that they took a lot of shortcuts with the development of the game, it does not feel polished, the animations are awkward, the dialogue is awkward and the skill wheel is boring. That's my opinion, try sharing yours without repeatedly stating I'm simply wrong because I didn't play the game, which I did or I wouldn't have written a review of it, or just because you say so.

^ He wins the thread. The game will go free 2 play by summer next year. A good idea, but failed execution

Time to move on.

[Buckwald]

if Pvp was something that could be fixed in 3 weeks then yes you would have a point and if we are not testing the builds as Closed Beta testers, then who is? the devs?

Who says the Devs weren't already doing this and then just ramped up their efforts. We dont know what goes on in their offices. You're assumptions might be right but you dont know. So until the game launches you can't say, definitively that PvP is an after thought. That's my point there.

talk about STRETCHING at best. just because he was using his 1 skill does not in anyway mean he did not have other skill he could have used and it certainly did not mean he was using it to build charges to execute other more powerful skills. that was a very sad reach you attempted to go for there and it saddens me that you would even stoop to that level. /sigh.

I didn't reach nor did I attempt. I took a video from YouTube that shows combat. I looked at a few others of recent combat to get the most up-to-date and the majority was under water. Now had I done that you'd still be upset.

The fact is simple combat in both games feels similar to me. I've played both. Just So happens I played more of TSW to know that combat isn't as simple as you or others make it. In a basic stand there don't move situation. Yeah one attack as a builder 2 attacks as finishers. But that situation rarely occurs past KM. if you're in beta like you say you are, go to Egypt and tell me how well that works.

[Deleted]

Seems to be a bit discussions here about pvp but can someone answer these questions?
1. Do they separate people for pvp? Since there are no levels, people will still have more skills and from what I heard better stats the more they play? All these people play together or it splits up?
2. How is balance? I noticed some pvp was dominating areas in the world. I also understand illuminati will be most popular faction. What did you see?
That's probably the most important questions about pvp. "Class" or choice of abilities can always be buffed or nerfed along the way.

[Mazinger-Z]

Just So happens I played more of TSW to know that combat isn't as simple as you or others make it.

...This sounds horrifically condescending. So we should all drop $60 the game and stumble around blind until we have your clarity, eh?

[Buckwald]

...This sounds horrifically condescending. So we should all drop $60 the game and stumble around blind until we have your clarity, eh?

Wow. No. That was a reply to someone in the beta. Not a reply to those not in a beta.

[procne]

Wow. No. That was a reply to someone in the beta. Not a reply to those not in a beta.

I spent roughly 20 hours in beta weekends (this and a week before), and I assume that I also qualify in "(...) you or others make it"

Bottom line is that either combat / ability system is not that exciting, or devs didn't introduce it well enough. If everyone starts with bland "spam 1 to build resources, then spend them" and it requires more than 20 hours for a new player to find this depth then something is kinda wrong. And you can't expect that everyone will scan the whole wheel and make theorycrafting on paper to figure out what would be fun.

Pacox's example build does sound interesting, but how long does it take to reach it?

[Mazinger-Z]

Wow. No. That was a reply to someone in the beta. Not a reply to those not in a beta.

I played through Beta last weekend and managed to unlock some Elemental and the first tier of Pistol. I had ot have earned something like 15 SP. The combat didn't seem that engaging and rather shallow. It wasn't obvious what you had to do to get better. Even in WoW Vanilla, you had an idea on how to improve. I spent SP on pistols before realizing I needed the Talisman skills. The only thing I had synergistic-ally going was the 8th hit crit from a passive ability. Everything else was Pistols, then Shoot Out. Over. And Over.

While Zombies were chewing on me. Couldn't even kite them.

[Odeezee]

Who says the Devs weren't already doing this and then just ramped up their efforts. We dont know what goes on in their offices. You're assumptions might be right but you dont know. So until the game launches you can't say, definitively that PvP is an after thought. That's my point there.

maybe you do not get what afterthought means in this instance, it means that the devs rush to put it in, which is clearly what they are doing. hence why it is an afterthought. they are not just polishing the game at this point, they are changing whole mechanics this late in the dev cycle.

I didn't reach nor did I attempt. I took a video from YouTube that shows combat. I looked at a few others of recent combat to get the most up-to-date and the majority was under water. Now had I done that you'd still be upset.

why would i have been upset if you showed underwater combat? it's really well executed in GW2 and makes sense and adds more skill options for every profession. it is an example of what you can get when combat is a primary design goal. what you also fail to realize is that the video you linked does not exemplify what you were hoping it would at all.

The fact is simple combat in both games feels similar to me. I've played both. Just So happens I played more of TSW to know that combat isn't as simple as you or others make it.

i too have played both and played TSW more extensively than i have GW2 for obvious reasons and combat in TSW is in no way shape or form similar to GW2 in feel and execution. they both have skills that can be cast on the move, they have limited hotbar skill sizes and that is pretty much where the similarities end.

TSW has an "active dodge" but it is pretty much useless as it was something just recently added to show that they have "dodging" too. there are no skills or passives that augment the "active dodge" in any way and thus it is a prime example of "tacked on" game mechanics. dodging in GW2 is meaningful and tactical there is no denying that and it augmented by many different boons and conditions, utilities and traits. you have to have a target for pretty much all skills that are not aoe in TSW, which is many of them, so that is another difference, whereas in GW2 you can free aim. there is no skill physics in the game so all ranged skills heat-seek and once fired cannot be avoided and you cannot avoid the skills simply by moving, GW2 has those. TSW does not have cross-class synergies, GW2 has those. you move at the same speed in GW2 when casting unless under the effect of a boon or condition, in TSW you move slower while casting. in TSW mobs move ridiculously faster than players whereas in GW2 mobs move at the same speed as players unless they are under a movement boon or condition or executing a skill that gives them rapid movement. for me playing TSW world reminds me more of GW1 than GW2 to be honest TSW has taken SO many design guides from GW1 like the mixing and matching of classes, the large skill pool and the small hotbar. you may prefer TSW combat over GW2, but that does not mean you can make statements such as they are similar, when in reality they are not. there are probably a lot more, but i think the point is clear.

In a basic stand there don't move situation. Yeah one attack as a builder 2 attacks as finishers. But that situation rarely occurs past KM. if you're in beta like you say you are, go to Egypt and tell me how well that works.

who was even talking about standing still and casting? neither i nor the person you had quoted mentioned that. this statement had no bearing what-so-ever on what was being discussed other than you acknowledging that combat in TSW is about building resources to execute more powerful skills, which is all he/she had also said.

[Sj]

...requires more than 20 hours for a new player to find this depth then something is kinda wrong.

This has always been what I consider the fatal flaw, not animations, combat execution, character creation or roughness. It shouldn't take so long to let new players get into the meat of the ability and force them to make decisions regarding CDs and positioning. I'm in full QL10 gear (mostly green, yes) and I get my ass handed to me regularly in Transylvania. When you make the proper choices and position correctly, you'll survive. If you mess up or try to muscle through, you get fucked up hard. It's refreshing, somewhat frustrating, and all kinds of satisfying when you do things right. I love that I have to swap out builds and weapons from mission to mission.

Edit: Soundtrack's on iTunes now: http://itunes.apple.com/album/secret...eo/id530642356

[Ashnazg]

Beta is beta. But...

The game lacks coherence. Played the beta this past weekend and...

1) I didn't know what the character icons meant. I eventually realized that Boone had a quest that would give me new guns or another weapon of higher quality, but I didn't pick that up. I went to town, like he said. I was wondering why I was so underpowered halfway through Kingsmouth and why I didn't have any damn weapon drops.

2) I went with pistols. I felt incredibly weak, even after upgrading. There is no kiting and I feel silly blasting away at something at point-blank range and not even getting any stopping power.

3) Ability and skill progression were not explained well. I had spent SP in pistols before realizing I needed SP in talismans to equip ANY of the crap I got. Severely hindered my killing ability until I could grind up the SP.

4) Crafting is not intuitive. I was throwing things into that silly damn window with nothing clicking.

5) I spent several hours in Kingsmouth and tried to work over to the Savage Coast. Was grossly "under leveled" for lack of a better term. There was nothing left to do in Kingsmouth though. I had done everything except for the locked investigative missions. Everything else was on CD.

6) I felt silly having to run through and avoiding zombies. Just their aggro radius. There was no stealth whatsoever. Even the stealth missions were about evading sensors and lasers and didn't feel stealthy ala 'Thief' or 'Batman: Arkham *"

This game is better quality than AoC. The setting and story are engaging, but I wouldn't pay a subscription fee. F2P with clothing/cosmetic shop.

And for a game coming out in a week, the game seems very unoptimized.

I'm hoping the Vampire game is better.

1 and 3 are user problems. Realistically, spending a little time thinking about those things and reading tooltips solves those problems. And the game is advertised as one for the thinking crowd, instead of the handholding crowd.

2 - yes there is kiting. No, you can't kite every mob, but you can kite a number of them by running sideways and shooting. A lot of the mobs also stop for their telegraphed abilities and you can easily gain range. If you pick up some snares/roots and stuns, you can kite even better.

4 - True. Crafting is completely non intuitive and aside from sitting down and taking notes, you are pretty much relegated to using websites for pattern information.

5 - I think that if you do Kingsmouth without repeating, you arrive in SC with every quest at hard/very hard. They're still doable, but not a faceroll. If you cleared Kingmouth in its entirety, you'd probably get to Savage Coast with normal / hard.

6. Not sure what to say. Is your issue with feeling silly, with having to avoid zombies, or with the fact that you can't stealth?

[Jailbuild]

this is one i will completely disagree on. PvP at best is just an afterthought, hell SWTOR had more balanced and engaging PvP 1-49 than TSW. the issues lie with a lack of multiple viable builds for ones playstyle and if you were in the CBT like i was then you know about the channel instagib builds and the one shot, yes i said one shot builds that were available as well. and as someone who instagibed people with Thor's Hammer i just did not appreciate the PvP it reminded me of Bearshaman dps back in AoC /shudder.

SWTOR did not have balance in pvp, lower lvl's lacked sprint, and many abilities you didn't get till later levels.

[Mazinger-Z]

1 and 3 are user problems. Realistically, spending a little time thinking about those things and reading tooltips solves those problems. And the game is advertised as one for the thinking crowd, instead of the handholding crowd.

2 - yes there is kiting. No, you can't kite every mob, but you can kite a number of them by running sideways and shooting. A lot of the mobs also stop for their telegraphed abilities and you can easily gain range. If you pick up some snares/roots and stuns, you can kite even better.

4 - True. Crafting is completely non intuitive and aside from sitting down and taking notes, you are pretty much relegated to using websites for pattern information.

5 - I think that if you do Kingsmouth without repeating, you arrive in SC with every quest at hard/very hard. They're still doable, but not a faceroll. If you cleared Kingmouth in its entirety, you'd probably get to Savage Coast with normal / hard.

6. Not sure what to say. Is your issue with feeling silly, with having to avoid zombies, or with the fact that you can't stealth?

1/3) There were no tips for any of that. I understood GW2's skill system tutorials better.

2) No there's not. You can dodge when they're doing their silly AOE or Axe Swing, but beyond that, if they're just wailing on you, they run at you. There's no way to keep distance and your 'active dodge' skill does nothing to gain distance.

4) And that's a little stupid. I can understand googling "Four Seasons" to come up with Vivaldi even if it was counter-intuitive to people who try to avoid Googling puzzle games, but not for finding out mystical arcane transmutations.

5) That makes no sense. "do Kingsmouth without repeating" or "clear Kingsmouth in its entirety." There's no indication that repeatable quests are finite.

6) Silly in that I either have to a) wade through Zombies to go anywhere or b) just outrun them. It totally ruins the fact that I'm in a zombie town... The town is under seige, but everyone just zips on through the area.

6b) The missions designated as 'stealth' were bad because there was no 'stealth.' It was trap avoidance. I wasn't trying to get to my objective unnoticed, like in Batman or Hitman.

[Jailbuild]

Ok First off, I played the game for about 8 hours total throughout a weekend. Here is essentially what you said, "I DISAGREE WITH YOU THEREFORE I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME." Ok bro, that's a winning argument.

No I disagree with most of your points because you had limited experience of the game and didn't play it long enough to get to the real meat of the game, that was obvious.

What does bad anatomy, their facial structure being off, as well as the joints and ratios, have to do with it being a fantasy game? It just has to do with bad modelers, there are countless games out there with the same realistic style they're trying to pull off but with great models that are anatomically correct, Mass Effect to mention one. The character models in TSW look and move awkwardly, in my opinion, and being that it's MY CHARACTER that I have to look at throughout the entire game, I hardly see how that bothering me is just me "arbitrarily finding something to pick on."

"Yes it's strange and awkward but," enough said. There is no 'but'.

Again its a game, it's not an anatomy class, you are the first person I have seen bitching about this, it looks fine, your clutching at straws.

First of you seem confused about the plural of ability, it is abilities, "ability's" is a possessive of ability as in "this ability's power".

Really ? your going to point out a spelling error, you cant backup any of your points with validity but you point out a spelling error. yeah good job *golf clap*

With that out of the way, obviously the skills between the different weapons look different, work differently, and have different synergies. But they all boil down to just a couple of resource mechanics, as opposed to let's say if you look at a game like WoW where you can find dozens of markedly different resource mechanics in the game. There is ONE skill wheel, so my standards for the depth and complexity of it will be naturally much higher. And when I compare TSW with a game like Rift, I see more interesting synergy and variability within a single class in Rift than I see with the entire ability wheel in this game, and then Rift has three more classes. If it's enough for you great, for me there isn't enough to chew on and I know I'd be bored with it within a month. The ability icons also look pretty terrible, which doesn't help.

Let me sum this one up real quick, No you don't know what you are talking about, you are making assumptions without experience. ohh and now the Icons look terrible ? Dude have you ever considered that you are coming across as what is known as a "back seat driver" e.g you are an artist there for other peoples work is just not as good as your own, you hold others to standards that must not only be exceptional but to your own personal liking, else it is just terrible ?

No it's nowhere as difficult to design a piece of modern clothing than a fictional full set of armor. The reason being the hardest part of design is not creating the model is coming up with a concept. You can find all the "gear" in this game by flipping through a Macy's catalog, which from a design standpoint, makes it very easy to create. Your argument that it "doesn't make sense" for them to have armor I can't follow at all. So these super powerful and wealthy secret organizations you just got recruited into don't have the means to provide proper armor to their recruits? That's what doesn't make sense.

No point in trying explain in any more detail to you, you simply just don't get it.

Yes, the puzzles were ok, the only thing in fact, I found interesting throughout my beta experience. But overall, my opinion, is that they took a lot of shortcuts with the development of the game, it does not feel polished, the animations are awkward, the dialogue is awkward and the skill wheel is boring. That's my opinion, try sharing yours without repeatedly stating I'm simply wrong because I didn't play the game, which I did or I wouldn't have written a review of it, or just because you say so.

The puzzles are not just ok, the puzzles are great and very well put together. When is anything ever polished enough ? this is the number one complaint I see during beta testing many games. Its a beta and its an MMO. all mmos are work in progress. and yes you are entitled to your opinion but your experience is limited and your views are very critical of things you have taken personally due to you being an artist, your view of the artwork/models are just blown out of proportion and your comments about the ability system are just wrong and inaccurate.

[Sj]

1/3) There were no tips for any of that. I understood GW2's skill system tutorials better.

The full tutorials are supposedly going to be in at launch.

2) No there's not. You can dodge when they're doing their silly AOE or Axe Swing, but beyond that, if they're just wailing on you, they run at you. There's no way to keep distance and your 'active dodge' skill does nothing to gain distance.

There is a passive that increases your run speed upon using a consumer. It's actually in the pistols section. You can kite all day if you equip it as your elite passive.

4) And that's a little stupid. I can understand googling "Four Seasons" to come up with Vivaldi even if it was counter-intuitive to people who try to avoid Googling puzzle games, but not for finding out mystical arcane transmutations.

You learn crafting by disassembling. When you place something in the disassemble slot, it shows the shape of the weapon in the assembly grid. The crafting tutorial mission is supposedly going to be put in for launch.

5) That makes no sense. "do Kingsmouth without repeating" or "clear Kingsmouth in its entirety." There's no indication that repeatable quests are finite.

The hourglass icon that appears on mission icons signifies the cooldown. There isn't a tutorial on this, but there really should be.

6) Silly in that I either have to a) wade through Zombies to go anywhere or b) just outrun them. It totally ruins the fact that I'm in a zombie town... The town is under seige, but everyone just zips on through the area.

You don't have to zip through. That's your choice. I'm not sure which part of "zombie-infested" is hard to understand. I don't really grasp what you're complaining about... are there too many or too few?

6b) The missions designated as 'stealth' were bad because there was no 'stealth.' It was trap avoidance. I wasn't trying to get to my objective unnoticed, like in Batman or Hitman.

There were a lot of missions that weren't even available on the closed beta because they didn't want to spoil them. There were quite a few missions where I was dodging actively-searching surveillance cameras, and they were pretty intense. The option to toggle a crouch-walk a la Dreamfall would be a nice addition.

[procne]

Again its a game, it's not an anatomy class, you are the first person I have seen bitching about this, it looks fine, your clutching at straws.

I'm pretty sure I complained about it in this thread already, and haven seen couple of other people do so as well

Really ? your going to point out a spelling error, you cant backup any of your points with validity but you point out a spelling error. yeah good job *golf clap*

No, he just pointed it out so you stop repeating this typo. Calm down.

The puzzles are not just ok, the puzzles are great and very well put together. When is anything ever polished enough ? this is the number one complaint I see during beta testing many games. Its a beta and its an MMO. all mmos are work in progress. and yes you are entitled to your opinion but your experience is limited and your views are very critical of things you have taken personally due to you being an artist, your view of the artwork/models are just blown out of proportion and your comments about the ability system are just wrong and inaccurate.

Some puzzles are fine, some are dumb. However, this opinion is based on 3 missions only, because investigation missions were disabled this weekend.
But if they repeat mistakes like with "hands of time" in illuminati hideout then I can see people passing by those missions and using guides instead. Because they are forced to do those missions since they unlock others.

---------- Post added 2012-06-25 at 06:02 PM ----------

You don't have to zip through. That's your choice. I'm not sure which part of "zombie-infested" is hard to understand. I don't really grasp what you're complaining about... are there too many or too few?

I can only guess what he meant, but to me it's silly that, while the police station is besieged and people have barricaded themselves with makeshift walls fighting for survival, the area is filled with people (players) running around, like through some amusement park. All this survival and danger atmosphere is extinguished when you see people chasing zombies, not the other way around. But that's because they took single player material and turned it into MMO :/

[Cyclone Jack]

I spent roughly 20 hours in beta weekends (this and a week before), and I assume that I also qualify in "(...) you or others make it"

Bottom line is that either combat / ability system is not that exciting, or devs didn't introduce it well enough. If everyone starts with bland "spam 1 to build resources, then spend them" and it requires more than 20 hours for a new player to find this depth then something is kinda wrong. And you can't expect that everyone will scan the whole wheel and make theorycrafting on paper to figure out what would be fun.

Pacox's example build does sound interesting, but how long does it take to reach it?

This was the issue I was running into. Kingsmouth was decent, but once I hit Savage Coast the combat started to really become repetitive, and it was difficult to see which of the 12 advanced sets that I wanted to use (6 per weapon). Then picking one and realizing that it isn't as cool/useful as the description makes it out to be. Like the fist weapon charge attack. Two feet is not a charge attack. That was a waste of 9 points. They talk about swapping builds, but what they really mean is that once you have 100+ hours in the game and have everything unlocked, THEN you can start to have all these different builds. It makes the mid game feel overly repetitive and somewhat grindy, from the combat perspective (story-wise the game is awesome).

[Aerilius]

When I started out, I was doing Shotgun/Fists as my weapon set. I didn't like it beyond the Kingsmouth zombies because it felt like most of my damage was AoE, so when I faced a tough single monster, I got destroyed. Really, the problem was that I didn't invest in some of the more useful abilities beyond the beginning tiers. I was trying to rely on a very, very low heal in Fists and it wasn't working. I switched it up to Shotgun/Pistols and really enjoyed it. I had a lot of crit/penetration and I could kite like a beast. But I wasn't too crazy about using two guns, so I switched to Shotgun/Elemental, and that's what I'm loving. I have a long root, weakening synergy, breaching shot for the group penetration buff, solid AoE damage good enough for soloing packs, and Thor's Hammer to hit hard. It's a super fun combo, but it doesn't work on everything. I had to change it up for Recursia in Inferno because I needed more utility and less AoE.

Really, I think people are exaggerating the time it takes to get ability points. After about 1.5 hours of doing missions, I had saved 47 AP, before I decided on the Shotgun/Elemental combo. I did "waste" some points in stuff that I really shouldn't have, just out of curiosity to taste AR and Blades.

[Sj]

I can only guess what he meant, but to me it's silly that, while the police station is besieged and people have barricaded themselves with makeshift walls fighting for survival, the area is filled with people (players) running around, like through some amusement park. All this survival and danger atmosphere is extinguished when you see people chasing zombies, not the other way around. But that's because they took single player material and turned it into MMO :/

See, I saw it as the societies sending their operatives out to investigate, not save the day. The people who should be cowering for survival are, and those of us with shit to do... well, we're doing it.

[Aerilius]

See, I saw it as the societies sending their operatives out to investigate, not save the day. The people who should be cowering for survival are, and those of us with shit to do... well, we're doing it.

EXACTLY. We aren't saviors, really. We have our own shit to do, and it doesn't involve saving everyone in Kingsmouth.