1. #1

    Dots and Static Gains

    Scenario: I apply all 3 dots to a target and start mind flaying, a SP trinket procs, and boost my SP by 1710. Do dots need to be refreshed asap to get the effect or will they naturally do more damage?

    Same question for Theralions Mirror, If it procs, and i activate empowered shadows, will dots already on boss tick harder, or do i need to reapply?

    I have posted this on the wow forums and another forum, and i get a mix of responses. either NO ONE REALLY KNOWS, or someone can provide a link or patchnotes that can clarify this.

  2. #2
    No! Just.. No.

  3. #3
    This has been asked a bajillion times over.

    No they do not immediately apply, and must be refreshed. Period. No doubt, at all. Shadow Word: Pain can get by through a Mind Flay refresh instead of a full on hard-cast.

    However, this also is true for the DoTs applied when the buff is active, as when it falls off the DoTs already ticking will keep their empowered strength. It's because of this rule that generally speaking (few exceptions of course) you want to just not worry about DoT refreshes through procs, as they'll cycle through and get the bonus anyways. I believe the exception is Devouring Plague through a Mirror proc (after you retrigger an orb sexplosion) but that's about it.
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  4. #4
    Procs and such only apply to a spell when it was cast. Thus, if you have a DoT on a target, and then the proc happens, the debuff on the target does not have the buff factored into its damage. This can work for you and against you depending on the situation. You want to maximize the time your DoTs get these extra buffs, but refreshing will also cost you MF tics (damage loss), which means fewer chances to proc orbs, which can affect your ES uptime (also damage loss). In short, there will be times that refreshing is worth it, but they are specific to how much of a boost each proc gives you for the duration of the refreshed DoT compared to the loss of a potential orb and MF damage. It varies a lot.

    The best way to know for sure is to do your own testing, whether on a dummy or with Simcraft, since that takes your gear and skill into account. I haven't done any for Theralion's Mirror because it's never dropped for me, but the sheer absurdity of the mastery on it may make it worth while if it's the only extra proc when you had ES up anyway. Hopefully someone else has done that math and would be willing to share. In general, I definitely refresh when both Power Torrent and Volcano proc (amg, the intellect!), but they also have very close ICD's, so I've rarely had the issue of refreshing or not because only one came up.

  5. #5
    thank you, this makes sense for sp gains, but this seems like a design flaw for pve and pvp with empowered shadows, but meh, least its all cleared up

  6. #6
    No design flaw at all. In fact, an intelligent spriest can use this mechanic to their advantage and eek out more dps when combined with a mastery proc such as that from Theralion's Mirror.

  7. #7
    thank you, this makes sense for sp gains, but this seems like a design flaw for pve and pvp with empowered shadows, but meh, least its all cleared up
    Not bad design, but a mechanic which seperates (spelling) the "good" from the "really good"
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    Kel, could you work the phrase "orb sexplosion" into every form post? That was too awesome!
    Last edited by h3lladvocate; 2011-06-04 at 08:40 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by h3lladvocate View Post
    Kes, could you work the phrase "orb sexplosion" into every form post? That was too awesome!
    I'll see what I can do.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dharmabhum View Post
    No design flaw at all. In fact, an intelligent spriest can use this mechanic to their advantage and eek out more dps when combined with a mastery proc such as that from Theralion's Mirror.
    Pretty sure that being able to extend a 20s proc to effectively last up to 50-60s is something that Blizz did not intend for and will fix (or nerf if you prefer to see it that way) soon enough.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Solia View Post
    Pretty sure that being able to extend a 20s proc to effectively last up to 50-60s is something that Blizz did not intend for and will fix (or nerf if you prefer to see it that way) soon enough.
    Show me how you can extend a proc that long?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
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  12. #12
    eh i play a warrior, i guess if i look at ES as a colossus smash mechanic, where it creates a window for more dmg, it makes more sense.

    and yea how would you extend the effect of TM by a minute? most i can see is proccing ES at the last second of buff, this would at most extend the buff for the duration of 15 seconds. (recasting dots before the last second). possible 30 secs of bonus dmg at max.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Show me how you can extend a proc that long?
    quoting Twintop from H2P.com
    Once the proc occurs, lets assume best case scenario -- you have MB off CD with at least 1 orb up and your DoTs are in a position to be refreshed. Casting MB takes 1 GCD (18.75sec left on proc), recasting DP takes 1 GCD (17.50 sec left), and recasting VT takes 1 GCD (16.25 sec left). SW: Pain gets refreshed on your next MF. Now assuming that you have a MB with at least 1 orb casted at the very end of the proc, your uptime of improved ES (with VT/DP/SWP also improved) is going to be 16.25sec+15sec = 31.25sec (specifically for SWP). Additionally, you can recast VT and DP within the last ~1.3 sec of the proc-affected ES buff, increasing the effective time that VT is improved by 15sec and DP by 24sec, giving you 46.25sec of increased mastery effecting VT and 55.25sec of increased mastery effecting DP.
    Pretty close to the 50-60s that Solia said.

  14. #14
    T=0 mirrror procs. You have an orb, you refresh ES, you get dots up immediately.
    T=20 Mirror proc ends. You have an orb, and refresh ES.
    T=35 Your stronger ES ends. You refresh DoTs.
    T=53 Your VT wears off.
    T=57 Your DP wears off.


    Edit: Above post is more precise than mine :P
    Last edited by Priestlyone; 2011-06-02 at 09:52 PM.

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