1. #3861
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    There is nothing NOBLE about a power hungry bastard using the banner of Freedom to gain it. I would not be at all surprised if once he got the throne, if he ever does, he turned around and taxed Skyrim into Oblivion. He does what he wants for himself and no one else. I think he's blindsiding everyone. While I understand and can agree with the sentiment that yeah that empire didn't fully do its duty, I can understand and agree with empire's side. it was either risk being destroyed or doing something "small" in order to save thousands of lives. Of course with this civil war you still run the risk of being destroyed. EITHER WAY THIS WAR IS STUPID AND HELPS NO ONE.
    That's how I feel. I don't feel like siding with either group like at all. I wish there was an option to be on your own side...

    On another topic, how is the patch? Is it even worth getting? I've been reading complaints that this patch ruins some other things that are not worth the fixing done by the patch...
    Last edited by tangosmango; 2011-12-02 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #3862
    The patch seems to react differently to each person. It hasn't really done anything bad to my game but others have reported lots of issues. So patch up at your own risk.

  3. #3863
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelwryn View Post
    There is nothing NOBLE about a power hungry bastard using the banner of Freedom to gain it. I would not be at all surprised if once he got the throne, if he ever does, he turned around and taxed Skyrim into Oblivion. He does what he wants for himself and no one else. I think he's blindsiding everyone. While I understand and can agree with the sentiment that yeah that empire didn't fully do its duty, I can understand and agree with empire's side. it was either risk being destroyed or doing something "small" in order to save thousands of lives. Of course with this civil war you still run the risk of being destroyed. EITHER WAY THIS WAR IS STUPID AND HELPS NO ONE.
    When he liberated Markarth, it was not for himself. When he surrendered at the ambush leading to Helgen it was not for himself. He thinks about the freedoms of others and is willing to die so that his followers might have a chance to live. He has never expressed an interest in amassing fortunes for himself. He is constantly talking about how wrong it is that others have had things taken from them. It is better to risk destruction than to guarantee it. The Dominion are true racists. They believe that only their race should rule _everywhere_. Ulfric has no interest in putting a Nord in charge of Elsweyr. What you call his racism is his prioritizing the plight of his own kinsmen. And all the empire has done is allow the Dominion to carry out their atrocities without having to worry about a front line. They can build secret prisons on imperial land, walk into people's homes, and kill or abduct as they see fit. Much more was lost than just the freedom of religion. Ulfric supports liberty well beyond that of his opponents.

    So long as the empire crawled along in skyrim, the average person would live in fear.

  4. #3864
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketsurgeon View Post
    If you want to fight them, why join the side that already surrendered to them? The Stormcloaks want to do what the Hammerfall resistance is doing-continue to resist. The cause is worth fighting for and dying for. The Imperials want to roll over and be Thalmor slaves. They gave up. If you're attacking Thalmor agents to free prisoners, you're doing the opposite of what the empire wants.

    Ulfric wants to reclaim the homeland of his people from an invading aggressor race. Other races who want to live peacefully within Skyrim he is happy to have. His responsibilities do not center on them, however, but on his own people. Calling Ulfric racist when he's the one standing up to genocidal oppression is crazy to me.
    I'm a High Elf, and the Thalmor are rude and snobby to me as well. Ulfric also comes off as a selfish man to me so I joined the Imperials...

    before completing the Dark Brotherhood quest chain, of course

    Doing the Imperials quest chain you really find out that Ulfric is not so noble as people make him to be. He doesn't even honor the nordic traditions that stormcloaks claim to uphold.

    BTW I hate that the story only has the greatest effect if you're a Nord. Logically it makes no sense for me as a High Elf to be Dovakhiin.
    Last edited by Zarasthura; 2011-12-03 at 12:52 AM.
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  5. #3865
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
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    Speaking of banning of Talos, has anyone noticed that praying to him gives you nothing? Or well, it does give a buff that reduces time between shouts by 0%. Got me thinking if it was a bug or intentional. Although very people could actually use shouts so it's kind of irrelevant either way but if praying to him actually does something, wouldn't it be proof that he actually is god.. even if it just cures diseases?
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  6. #3866
    If Ulfric wasn't a little racist (I think his racism is intensified if you join the imperials), then there WOULD be a right/wrong side. Most people agree with what Ulfric is fighting for, just not how he is fighting for it. In the end, it'll come down to individual principals. If Ulfric wasn't racist, it would be incredibly hard to argue in the imperials favor.

  7. #3867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zafire View Post
    If Ulfric wasn't a little racist (I think his racism is intensified if you join the imperials), then there WOULD be a right/wrong side. Most people agree with what Ulfric is fighting for, just not how he is fighting for it. In the end, it'll come down to individual principals. If Ulfric wasn't racist, it would be incredibly hard to argue in the imperials favor.
    The General seems to be a fine replacement for what Ulfric stands for.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  8. #3868
    Herald of the Titans Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Speaking of banning of Talos, has anyone noticed that praying to him gives you nothing? Or well, it does give a buff that reduces time between shouts by 0%. Got me thinking if it was a bug or intentional. Although very people could actually use shouts so it's kind of irrelevant either way but if praying to him actually does something, wouldn't it be proof that he actually is god.. even if it just cures diseases?
    According to the UESP it is a bug: " The Blessing of Talos appears to fortify shouts by 0%, when, in fact, it does fortify shouts by 20% as it should do. This has been confirmed on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360."

  9. #3869
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketsurgeon View Post
    When he liberated Markarth, it was not for himself. When he surrendered at the ambush leading to Helgen it was not for himself. He thinks about the freedoms of others and is willing to die so that his followers might have a chance to live. He has never expressed an interest in amassing fortunes for himself. He is constantly talking about how wrong it is that others have had things taken from them. It is better to risk destruction than to guarantee it. The Dominion are true racists. They believe that only their race should rule _everywhere_. Ulfric has no interest in putting a Nord in charge of Elsweyr. What you call his racism is his prioritizing the plight of his own kinsmen. And all the empire has done is allow the Dominion to carry out their atrocities without having to worry about a front line. They can build secret prisons on imperial land, walk into people's homes, and kill or abduct as they see fit. Much more was lost than just the freedom of religion. Ulfric supports liberty well beyond that of his opponents.

    So long as the empire crawled along in skyrim, the average person would live in fear.
    Granted I haven't finished the main questline, exactly how powerful is Dragonborn? How would be fare against...say, Talos?

    ***SPOILERS BELOW*** Press CTRL + A to see

    What about the Daedra? I read that Sheogorath (Jyggalag) was so powerful that the other Daedra got jealous and turned him into Sheo. So how powerful is our Dragonborn compared to this Daedra?

    I'm just trying to get a grasp on the hierarchy of strength in this series.

  10. #3870
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    Skyrim going up against Skyward sword for GOTY by g4. Imperials and Stormcloaks must unite to combat this evil!

    http://www.g4tv.com/vgdm/best-game-2...askywardsword/

  11. #3871
    Quote Originally Posted by tangosmango View Post
    Granted I haven't finished the main questline, exactly how powerful is Dragonborn? How would be fare against...say, Talos?
    Off the cuff I'd have to say that my character, while able to 3 shot dragons routinely, isn't a god and has shown no sign of approaching ascension to one. I think Talos would school me thoroughly. As far as more canon heirarchies of power might go, no idea. I'm still getting used to liking the series

    As for making Ulfric have some sort of negative attribute in order to balance the sides better, I was never looking for a role model. Only a leader. Were Mr Rogers to be found in game I'd take his counsel on faith but I wouldn't support him for jarl or king. I make no claim to him being a good person, but I still don't buy into Ulfric being a racist. There's an ocean between "I take care of my own because they're my own and I have limits," and "I take care of my own because we're better than you and you're not worth it."

  12. #3872
    Quote Originally Posted by tangosmango View Post
    Granted I haven't finished the main questline, exactly how powerful is Dragonborn? How would be fare against...say, Talos?

    ***SPOILERS BELOW*** Press CTRL + A to see

    What about the Daedra? I read that Sheogorath (Jyggalag) was so powerful that the other Daedra got jealous and turned him into Sheo. So how powerful is our Dragonborn compared to this Daedra?

    I'm just trying to get a grasp on the hierarchy of strength in this series.
    Dragonborn is a human with dragon blood. He'd be absolutely no match for Talos. Talos is basically omnipotent. All knowing, all seeing, all powerful. Even if he chooses to appear in a physical form, and you kill him, he wouldn't actually be dead, or even hurt, and he could stop you with a thought.

    In general, the 9 Divines are completely superior to the daedric princes. With a thought, the 9 Divines could make the daedric princes not exist. For example, Mehrunes Dagon, during the Oblivion crisis he came to Tamriel in his physical form. He was defeated by Martin, as the avatar of Akatosh.

    Without the intervention of the 9 Divines, that would have been the end of the world. No mortal army, even the Empire, the Aldmeri Dominion, and all dragons teaming up, would have ever been able to even wound Mehrunes Dagon. He's a virtually invincible, all powerful force of destruction.

    He is so infinitely limited compared to the 9 Divines though. Dagon destroying the world, (without the use of his army) would require him to individually kill every mortal. When the dwarves tried to tap into the power of the dead god Lorkhan, their entire species vanished in an instant. That's the difference between the daedra, and the 9 Divines. Extreme overwhelming power vs true omnipotence.

    Concerning beings currently on the physical plane, the dragonborn is really high up there. If I had to guess, I'd say he's the second strongest, under the Neravarine.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  13. #3873
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Dragonborn is a human with dragon blood. He'd be absolutely no match for Talos. Talos is basically omnipotent. All knowing, all seeing, all powerful. Even if he chooses to appear in a physical form, and you kill him, he wouldn't actually be dead, or even hurt, and he could stop you with a thought.

    In general, the 9 Divines are completely superior to the daedric princes. With a thought, the 9 Divines could make the daedric princes not exist. For example, Mehrunes Dagon, during the Oblivion crisis he came to Tamriel in his physical form. He was defeated by Martin, as the avatar of Akatosh.

    Without the intervention of the 9 Divines, that would have been the end of the world. No mortal army, even the Empire, the Aldmeri Dominion, and all dragons teaming up, would have ever been able to even wound Mehrunes Dagon. He's a virtually invincible, all powerful force of destruction.

    He is so infinitely limited compared to the 9 Divines though. Dagon destroying the world, (without the use of his army) would require him to individually kill every mortal. When the dwarves tried to tap into the power of the dead god Lorkhan, their entire species vanished in an instant. That's the difference between the daedra, and the 9 Divines. Extreme overwhelming power vs true omnipotence.

    Concerning beings currently on the physical plane, the dragonborn is really high up there. If I had to guess, I'd say he's the second strongest, under the Neravarine.
    Very damn interesting. Thanks for the insight!

  14. #3874
    I really do feel like I picked the wrong horse as an orc worshiping Malacath. Seriously, when you knowingly bend your knee to something another god literally crapped out...

  15. #3875
    Playing this game slowly made me realize how good blizzard is; and how much we've been spoilt with good gameplay.

    I've put in about 35-40ish hours into this game; and now I have almost no incentive to open it up anymore.

    I'm playing a one-handed dual wield warrior; level 42 or 43 now. I'm probably 2/3rds through the main quest (just finished the mountaintop stuff). Dragon + daedric armor and weapons, 100 smithing, 100 one handed, 100 alch, 70 or so enchanting; 65 or so restoration magic.

    Everything I come across dies in 3-4 hits at most. Why is game balance so bad ? What's the point of levelling up skills and getting better armor if there is absolutely zero challenge from any of the enemies in the game ?

    Dragons that are supposed to be all "EPIC" and "MAJESTIC" die to 1 shout and 4-5 hits. "hard" in this game seems to just involve pausing more, using the same craptastic ui and using just a few more potions. Why ?

    Combat involves :

    1. Nudge close to enemy
    2. Hit right/left mouse buttons
    3. Nudge back
    4. If health is low then {spam click 10,000 potatoes, 200 potions} else go back to (1).

    Combat is supposed to be a reward in itself of gameplay; not sure why bethesda never realized this. Combo points, multiple resource mechanics, proc and reactive abilities, multiple attack directions, debuffs, or simply put = HITTING MORE BUTTONS. Another thing, constantly pausing in a real-time game totally destroys game flow and immersion.

    Using spells or bows involves wading through an ocean of horrendous UI garbage. I'm not sure I've ever seen a UI this unresponsive or horribly designed.

    Every other kill there is a badly animated "slow motion" death scene; very similar to fallout 3 ones; that appeal to the "AMG EXPLOOOSHUNZ" crowd. The beheading is usually done wrong and the camera angles are really weird. Why not make a QTE death move or a finisher or just do away with this gimmick completely ?

    Every dungeon seems to be 1 of 3 types :
    1) Crypts
    2) Indoor barracks/tower type affair with a spiral staircase (the spiral stairs are a must guys)
    3) Dwemer ruins with falmers.

    Quests are the same mmorpg crap of fetch/deliver/kill [aka fedex quests]. The worst of these are the "gather 20 nirnroot" or "gather 5 flawless sapphire and get 100gold yay" type quests.

    - get quest from npc
    - fast travel to dungeon
    - take everything that has some value (300+)
    - fast travel to store and sell
    - fast travel to npc to end the quest (NPC: Omg you saved the universe! You are now the king of the world!)
    - repeat

    Levelling itself isn't balanced; you level up in the most bizarre way in this game. Quests themselves give you zero xp. XP progresses based of skill use. However there's a problem. As you level up a certain skill, it takes longer and longer to level it up. And if you go to a trainer it gets incredibly costly.

    BUT, getting +1 skill level in ANY skill has exactly the same xp progression for your character. What this means is as you reach higher levels; if you want to level up; it becomes optimal to go to a trainer and train in a skill you rarely use since it's cheap; or use crap skills on opponents and then switch to your weapons. Again doing this means wading through a mountain of dung that is the UI.

    As you level up you rapidly outscale your npc companions, which become little more than an extra backpack to dump dragon bones/scales/ore on to. Because it somehow makes sense to allow friendly fire; onto an npc that will die in 2 hits.
    Companions don't always follow you, and there is no notification if they die. Every time you save you have to make sure your companion isn't dead. If you think he/she's stuck somewhere and not realize they're dead; and then hit quicksave THAT'S IT. You just lost 10 dragonbones and the companion; whoopteedoo. Horses are also equally retarded; they die in 1 hit apparently and just have to attack everything.

    Which brings me to - inventory weight: why does stuff weigh so much ? Why do I have to open up the crap UI every time I pick up something and trade it to my companion ? Even with 420 carry capacity the entire inventory system is an exercise in frustration ....

    And so then I have to run back to my "home" and put junk in cupboards. When I want to make dragon armor I grab them and walk at 1 cm per second to the smith in whiterun - but o no you can't fast travel so it takes a full 10 minutes to do this.

    The main quest so far is very disappointing - it's the same cliched "chosen one" that gets to kill dragons. There is a big evil dragon rezzing dragons, only you can kill him. He still dies in 5 hits though, of course.

    The economy is another thing that i find strange. It's just so easy to make money in this game. But it's just annoying. Merchants having a fixed gold limit serves no purpose to make the game fun, why implement this in the first place ? To level smithing I had to hit the wait 48 hours thing about 30 times to wait for smiths to restock. NPCs only have 2000g, so selling a lot of high value stuff means fast travelling all over the place to find that 1 npc with more than 500g left.

    Then there's LOADING SCREENS for every single small house in cities. There's a loading screen for the companion house in whiterun, then ANOTHER loading screen for the basement. whyyyyyy ???
    I know loading screens take 3-5 seconds but it's just annoying as hell.

    Voice acting is probably better in general than oblivion and fallout 3 but some of the npc's have really bad fake accents and the typical bethesda bored voice actor comes to light quite often.

    NPCs generally look much better but the classic gamebryo fish eye expressionless stare is still omnipresent.

    Classic to bethesda traditions every single npc has the personality of a potato, and aren't memorable at all. It's never possible to really talk to your companion or have them comment about the area or quest you're in like in other rpg's. They say the same 3-4 things ad nauseum.

    Bugs, I won't go into much detail, but the entire markath zone bugging out and being hostile after a quest (until i did the stormcloak chain and conquered it), dragons stuck in mid-air, suddenly swimming in zones. Weird and buggy steal/wanted system.

    It's been a mediocre hiking simulator; with some pleasant bits like the misty village for the drunken daedra quest and some of the early spriggan caves.

    Someone please tell me why this game is good again.
    Also, why the hype ?
    Last edited by Neeshka; 2011-12-03 at 03:55 AM.

  16. #3876
    In general, the 9 Divines are completely superior to the daedric princes. With a thought, the 9 Divines could make the daedric princes not exist.
    I dont think "9 divines" are as omnipotent as you say they are Laurcus. Yes Akatosh is probably stronger than any daedric prince, but all gods have different powers and their strengths are not the same. Infact in the game's universe its not clear what kind of limits any of immortal beings have and where they really have come from. If youve read any ingame books, there are many different fictional writers who speculate and contradict each other. And the nine divines are often refered to as aedra - the opposite of daedra. One book speculates that daedra and aedra are merely spirits who achieved godhood by some means like worship. And infact the more one god is worshiped the more powerful he is, if that is the case that is probably the reason why Aldmeri dominion outlawed Talos worship, maybe some god is leading them and doesnt like how powerful Talos had gotten from the worship in the north, and now Talos' power will be significantly diminished.

    Heres a little dialogue from the game between Boethiah and you:
    - Are you some kind of god?
    - A god? Assuredly not! When was the last time you saw evidence of Aedra in the world? No, we Daedra are far more powerful than any god. And among my brethren, I am the most feared.

    Yes shes very arrogant but shes not completely full of shit. Daedra can enter the world much more often and much more easily without so much effort and affect the world.
    One of the myths states that Aedra gave part of their power away to create the mortal world, but daedra didnt give anything and kept all to themselves, they are just having fun.
    Last edited by frozenkex; 2011-12-03 at 03:28 AM.

  17. #3877
    Picked the game up yesterday. Was on my way to that Barrow with my follower when I came across a peasant who was going to sacrifice a cow to some giants. Decided to follow him and see how that turned out instead. Long story short, the giants disregarded the cow entirely and simply squashed him flat as he approached. I love this game.
    This is my signature. You will now remember me.

  18. #3878
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neeshka View Post
    Someone please tell me why this game is good again.
    Also, why the hype ?
    I enjoy it because it lets me play because it's a fantasy game which lets me play any which way I want at any given time. I enjoy the fact that I can spend a few hours doing nothing but wandering the forests and tundra and reading every book I find because I might just suddenly feel like doing that. I find the game also has a lot more replay value once you master it on a certain type of character. I've pretty much become godly with maxed enchanting and blacksmithing using 1h sword and shield. My response to that? Reroll a pure mage, or do a rogue wielding a 2h mace. Get creative. Also, my friends and I started the Skyrim Hardcore mode where we turn the difficulty up to master and impose a no fast travel rule. We play until we die, at which point we delete the save.

    Overall the appeal to the game for me is in its freedom. I've spent game sessions where I've done nothing but just explore the map and try and locate whatever random marker pops up on my compass. Right now I am actually scouring all of Skyrim in search of the missing volumes for some of my book collections. I'm specifically looking for the wolf queen V.2. It's things like that which attract me to the game and keep me playing.

  19. #3879
    i like how Ulfric rewarded me on first liberation quest with Daedric sword because i was level 60, then on next ones he gave me simple steel sword and then he gave me a hide shield. Got to love the randomization.
    Brb retrieving "iron dagger" from ancient dwarven ruins, cuz someone lost it there and its important.

  20. #3880
    How do you get dragons to land? Twice I've had them circle me and then fly away.

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