1. #5261
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    I would have to disagree, particularly with the conjuration part. Lets say you have maxed both out (which is completely doable). Fighting a melee enemy? Summon two Frost Atronachs/Thralls and blast them with Ice Storm/Ice Spike to prevent them from getting a single power attack in. How about another mage? Use two Storm Atronachs/Thralls and hit them with dual-cast Chain Lightning/Thunderbolt to stagger them while sapping away their magicka to prevent them from getting a single spell off. Is your target immune to either of these? Use a fire spell and kite them, or let your Dremora Lords get their attention first and then unload on them.

    I think you're a bit too hasty to discard the utility destruction magick has in combat. Like Archery and Melee, when coupled with the right talents it becomes godly.
    My character has maxed out conjuration and wears heavy armor with a shield/one-hander... basically it is pretty much impossible to kill me, much more viable than destruction.

  2. #5262
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Is it a bad thing that I'm enjoying my mage over my warrior and assassin characters?

    Don't get me wrong. I loved being a sneaky bitch as an assassin/thief; but once I finished the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild... I found very little to do out side of repetitive quests you get from them and sneaky dungeon looting. But as my mage... I'm enjoying the interplay of weaving lighting and fireballs together mixed in with my ice dragon shout and my conjour dremora lord >=D I've also recently taken to using staves (just got the one off of Morokei and Hevnoraak). I'm normally a melee character (be it archer or hand weapons) and RARELY enjoy casters. But for some reason its SO MUCH more fun in Skyrim.
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  3. #5263
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kivipää View Post
    Most people only have a problem with destruction. When compared to even unexploited weapons, melee or ranged, the damage output is pitiful. Yes, you can easily stunlock an enemy and/or paralyze it and wail away until it dies, but against higher level opponents you could have used melee to defeat 20 of them in the time your master destruction takes care of one.
    Destruction is actually more OP than anything else. How come you claim the damage is pitiful? Have you ever tried it? Destruction potion and dual cast chain lightning is just insanely OP. You can stunlock an entire room with it and the damage isn't so bad at all. Frost and fire are kind of crappy though. What makes lightning spells so great is the fact that they hit instantly. You can shoot flying dragons and moving targets with ease while it is nearly impossible to hit them with a bow. I even used lightning spells to shoot down eagles :P Something not easily done with a bow.
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  4. #5264
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
    My character has maxed out conjuration and wears heavy armor with a shield/one-hander... basically it is pretty much impossible to kill me, much more viable than destruction.
    So that's four skills (conjuration, heavy armor, block, and one-handed) that you say are better than destruction. Congratulations on missing the point. But replace heavy armor, block and one-handed with alteration, restoration and destruction and you have an equally unstoppable character.

  5. #5265
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
    My character has maxed out conjuration and wears heavy armor with a shield/one-hander... basically it is pretty much impossible to kill me, much more viable than destruction.
    Funny thing is I can do the same without conjuration and weapons on my Kahjiit. Currently at level 36 with Daedric gloves that do 163 damage without any exploits. I just need to get my heavy armor skill up a bit more (currently at 85).

  6. #5266
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    After trying all the magic schools, double one handed, 1 handed shield, 2 handed, assassin, stealth archer (all of them to level 30 or more)

    I finally decided that my main, the one that ill take to 81, is this one:

    Gianna Nord Female Stealth Archer

  7. #5267
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    No, I don't. You might want to elaborate so that I do.

    I will take destruction's ability to stagger anything and everything every time over archery's 50% chance to stagger medium sized enemies.

    And if you master archery you don't need one/two-handed. Did you have a point?
    Sneak boosts archer damage, but not spell, while they are both ranged attacking trees. You can combine archer with anything magic related but not the other way around. Added to the fact its pretty boring to watch the near-master spells over and over and over, I decided to quit my mage at around lvl 40. Magic in this game is boring, you dont have situational/niche spells to utilize in various situations in better designed games but the retarded "new spells here, abuse it and forget all you ve learned thus far". Not to mention the ridiculously well thought "wards" and half-baked "armor" perks. In short, its dual-cast lightning spamming to eternity. Even more broken if you abuse 100 enchanting to its max potential: 0% mana cost for 2 schools of your choice.

    I would have to disagree, particularly with the conjuration part. Lets say you have maxed both out (which is completely doable). Fighting a melee enemy? Summon two Frost Atronachs/Thralls and blast them with Ice Storm/Ice Spike to prevent them from getting a single power attack in. How about another mage? Use two Storm Atronachs/Thralls and hit them with dual-cast Chain Lightning/Thunderbolt to stagger them while sapping away their magicka to prevent them from getting a single spell off. Is your target immune to either of these? Use a fire spell and kite them, or let your Dremora Lords get their attention first and then unload on them.

    I think you're a bit too hasty to discard the utility destruction magick has in combat. Like Archery and Melee, when coupled with the right talents it becomes godly.
    Its pretty simple actually. You can summon at max 2 ridiculously strong draedas. With sufficient magicka and magicka regen, summon a demon right at the boss/mobs, the other close to protect you. Pick a safe corner, many dungeons in the game consists of narrow corridors and AI is unbelievably buggy, then re summon when they die. Repeat. The same for dragons. Shout it down then summon. Later in the main chain it might become tricky with so many boss-level mobs around, but then the Shouts come in handy. I poured like 80% of my level into magicka, but didnt die much even though most mobs later in the game could 1-hit me. Nothing but conjuration and a lot of mana to clear every dungeons.

  8. #5268
    Quote Originally Posted by kronpas View Post
    Sneak boosts archer damage, but not spell, while they are both ranged attacking trees. You can combine archer with anything magic related but not the other way around. Added to the fact its pretty boring to watch the near-master spells over and over and over, I decided to quit my mage at around lvl 40. Magic in this game is boring, you dont have situational/niche spells to utilize in various situations in better designed games but the retarded "new spells here, abuse it and forget all you ve learned thus far". Not to mention the ridiculously well thought "wards" and half-baked "armor" perks. In short, its dual-cast lightning spamming to eternity. Even more broken if you abuse 100 enchanting to its max potential: 0% mana cost for 2 schools of your choice.
    So destruction is just a long range attacking tree, huh? Just like archery? See, this is exactly the problem with people making these comparisons. They think it's a straight comparison. Like how you mention sneak does nothing for destruction but leave out that archery has nothing comparable to runes, cloaks, or walls. It's almost like you have no clue how destruction actually works...

  9. #5269
    What do you guys think the next Elder Scrolls game will be? (unless it's been announced already O.o) What haven't they done? The Dwimer (spelling)? Elseweyr?
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  10. #5270
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    What do you guys think the next Elder Scrolls game will be? (unless it's been announced already O.o) What haven't they done? The Dwimer (spelling)? Elseweyr?
    they should make a Elder Scrolls: Tamriel, sadly this would take at least a decade of massive development

  11. #5271
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    What do you guys think the next Elder Scrolls game will be? (unless it's been announced already O.o) What haven't they done? The Dwimer (spelling)? Elseweyr?
    I have this feeling they are headed for the MMO Market with Elder Scrolls.

  12. #5272
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    So destruction is just a long range attacking tree, huh? Just like archery? See, this is exactly the problem with people making these comparisons. They think it's a straight comparison. Like how you mention sneak does nothing for destruction but leave out that archery has nothing comparable to runes, cloaks, or walls. It's almost like you have no clue how destruction actually works...
    Cloak is almost useless if you plan on building 'pure' mage instead of hybrid mage wearing armor. As a pure mage, you have to stack magicka to keep staggering enemies, leaving no point for stamina & health, or abuse enchanting making to make 0% cost sets - its cheating then. Alter tree mage armor isnt really good as it requires so much micro managing (relatively short duration), plus being a pure mage you dont have much stamina - so much inconvenience. Runes works well in theory, but in practice the game doesnt credit player for pausing and planning ahead of a fight like more 'traditional' top-view DnD games - whacking or sneaking through it gives much smoother experience. The game flow, the 'rhythm' is off. And its funny you never mention the severe limit of spell choice and out of date 'throw old spells away after getting a new one' design.

    I dont come here to prove anything, so feel free to shoehorn your play style to a flawed game design. Each to his own game. For me, destruction magic is a total failure and I'm glad I switched to sneak/bow instead.

  13. #5273
    I enjoyed Destruction Magic (and a couple other schools), but it is weaker, even at max level and having unlocked the final talents and skills, than leveling up BS all the way and getting your Daedric Equipment.

    That isn't to say I didn't enjoy being an Arch-Mage, but it is obvious that even without min/maxing the system to make your weapons/armor, Physical (melee or archery) do more damage, faster, and are easier to play than going full on Mage.

  14. #5274
    Ignoring the fact that you compleyel missed my point that archery doesn't have the utility of destruction...
    Quote Originally Posted by kronpas View Post
    Cloak is almost useless if you plan on building 'pure' mage instead of hybrid mage wearing armor.
    An extra source of damage on enemies that manage to close the gap is far from useless. Not to mention the spell remains active if cast before and does not dispell the effects of the become ethereal dragon shout.
    As a pure mage, you have to stack magicka to keep staggering enemies, leaving no point for stamina & health, or abuse enchanting making to make 0% cost sets - its cheating then.
    It's also unnecessary. Master robes of destruction + Morokei + Amulet of Akatosh = 275% boost to magicka regeneration (which could be further enhanced another 50% with Restoration perks).

    There's also the option of using staves. Or potions.
    Alter tree mage armor isnt really good as it requires so much micro managing (relatively short duration),
    Casting a spell every 2 1/2 minutes is too much micro-management?
    plus being a pure mage you dont have much stamina - so much inconvenience.
    Restoration spells can restore endurance.
    Runes works well in theory, but in practice the game doesnt credit player for pausing and planning ahead of a fight like more 'traditional' top-view DnD games - whacking or sneaking through it gives much smoother experience. The game flow, the 'rhythm' is off.
    What the hell does this even mean? We're comparing Skyrim to turn-based games now?

    And I would think archery magically slowing down time does more to interrupt the flow of the game.
    And its funny you never mention the severe limit of spell choice and out of date 'throw old spells away after getting a new one' design.
    I do not mention something that does not need addressing. The only spells you ever drop are the novice level channeled spell and the adept level direct damage spell. Everything else remains useful.
    I dont come here to prove anything, so feel free to shoehorn your play style to a flawed game design. Each to his own game. For me, destruction magic is a total failure and I'm glad I switched to sneak/bow instead.
    Wow. You accuse me of shoe horning my playstyle into the game when you're the one trying to say a playstyle is completely invalid... Oh, and you're comparing the game to a turn-based game style.

  15. #5275
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I have this feeling they are headed for the MMO Market with Elder Scrolls.
    As long as they don't make it an amazing leveling experience + story and then "herp gather 9 friends and kill giant dragons once a week for loot"
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  16. #5276
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    As long as they don't make it an amazing leveling experience + story and then "herp gather 9 friends and kill giant dragons once a week for loot"
    You mean like almost every MMO currently on the market?

    I'm just waiting to see how GW2 and The Secret World do before I comment on the current crop of MMOs.

  17. #5277
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    You mean like almost every MMO currently on the market?

    I'm just waiting to see how GW2 and The Secret World do before I comment on the current crop of MMOs.
    Which is why I said in another thread I'm not playing any of the current MMOs

    I love Skyrim for its sandboxy-ness, and I'd rather they not make an MMO and stick to single player RPGs.
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  18. #5278
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I have this feeling they are headed for the MMO Market with Elder Scrolls.
    I think not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Howard
    "I like this kind of game better," he said. "You know, it's what most of us are into. I'm not really an MMO guy. I respect them, I look at them, but I don't play them. It feels more real to me when I'm the hero and it's crafted for that. A community aspect to it, I recognize a lot of people would want that in a game like this, but it changes the flavor for me.

    "The audience we have for our kind of thing is big enough that we don't have to tone it down. We can just do our thing, and it's kind of grown with each game. So there was no pressure from anybody above me to say 'Hey, you need to change this.'"
    Not to mention if Bethesda were to make an MMO they are more likely to do so with another property...
    Last edited by unholytestament; 2012-03-05 at 09:25 AM.

  19. #5279
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    I think not.

    Not to mention if Bethesda were to make an MMO they are more likely to do so with another property...
    They only wanted their rights back so they can farm it out to someone else.

    And when the president or shareholders of the company tell Mr Howard to make an MMO, a mmo there shall be.

    Seriously I would like a game back when the Dwemmer were still around.

  20. #5280
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And when the president or shareholders of the company tell Mr Howard to make an MMO, a mmo there shall be.
    You honestly think they will one day up and tell a studio that makes single player games to make an MMO?

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