1. #6301
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    When I started a stealth character on Master I found it nigh impossible to beat some of the more difficult mobs. Ice trolls in particular. Those just tear you to pieces and take a ton of damage if you don't have a flame enchant.

  2. #6302
    Quote Originally Posted by Vomlix View Post
    There's a mod that does the exact same thing (not sure if it allows adoption) for free.
    No it doesn't.

    People need to stop saying this until they have actually tried Hearthfire.
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  3. #6303
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    No it doesn't.

    People need to stop saying this until they have actually tried Hearthfire.
    If I want a player house, I'd choose official Hearthfire over a mod.

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  4. #6304
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    If I want a player house, I'd choose official Hearthfire over a mod.
    Yea, it's not bad but to be honest, I was expecting more from those towers and other wings as well. When I was building the house, the small house looked ok, the main hall was great (although a little choice in style wouldn't have hurt) but then I built the enchanters tower and well, it was tiny and didn't look like much. Maybe a place for some amateur wannabe enchanter, but definitely not a roomy, magical stone tower I was expecting. The kitchen was ok though. But I was expecting an actual wing, not a small 2 storey closet where you can barely turn around when building the towers.

    Another thing was all the junk lying around:P Like bags and sacks and pots on the floor. I wanted my house look tidy but at least I could fix most of it with console and markfordelete. I don't like cheats and using console but it doesn't make sense that I cant throw the bags and junk out from my own house.

  5. #6305
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    If I want a player house, I'd choose official Hearthfire over a mod.
    I haven't gotten Hearthfire and am not exactly sure if I will. I just think it isn't very unlikely that Hearthfire homes could ever compare to Halls of Dovahndor (http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/25448).
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  6. #6306
    A little off the usual topics but something that I find really annoying when looking for mods for Skyrim is the little extras they always try to put into the mods..

    For example when looking for better water textures etc. I had to not get at least 4, even though I otherwise liked them because they also added talking mudcrab princes and other such things. Or bugfixes that also change gameplay, even though it wasn't a bug but something the author didn't like or thought they could do better. In some cases you can exclude them or ignore them but in many you cant.

  7. #6307
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    For example when looking for better water textures etc. I had to not get at least 4, even though I otherwise liked them because they also added talking mudcrab princes and other such things. Or bugfixes that also change gameplay, even though it wasn't a bug but something the author didn't like or thought they could do better. In some cases you can exclude them or ignore them but in many you cant.
    It gets really funny if this little extras are the only things conflicting with another mod. I also prefer mods that do only one thing and that good.

  8. #6308
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I haven't gotten Hearthfire and am not exactly sure if I will. I just think it isn't very unlikely that Hearthfire homes could ever compare to Halls of Dovahndor (http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/25448).
    I'm normally for smaller houses, but that looks pretty epic.

  9. #6309
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    If I want a player house, I'd choose official Hearthfire over a mod.
    hearthfire was based on a mod and then they added some orphans and dirty edits. the mod was better by a longshot to be honest. the quality of the average mod blows anything bethesda has released away

    they are known for their shitty code. if you know how to read it, it's nothing short of a clusterfuck and would take a team of modders hundreds of hours to clean up.

    and PS: the new skyre patcher is fucking amazing

    patches any armor/mod/ingredient addon into the game via skyre's formulas and when it is missing keywords, take a second to add them in and run the patch again. no more need for skyre compatibility patches and it's the most efficient thing i've ever seen

    i have never seen anyone put out more high quality work than t3nd0 does. chesko knows his shit too though, but at best he's on par with t3nd0

    amazing these guys do this shit for free. donate if you use their mods, they earn it
    Last edited by fizzbob; 2012-12-17 at 12:02 AM.

  10. #6310
    What mods is chesko known for? I'm not home so I don't have access to my Skyrim but does the new SkyRE patch turn other mod's added bows to a longbow/shortbow list? It sucks not having immersive weapons not benefit from skyre while immersive armors has it's very own skyre variant.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  11. #6311
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    hearthfire was based on a mod and then they added some orphans and dirty edits. the mod was better by a longshot to be honest. the quality of the average mod blows anything bethesda has released away

    they are known for their shitty code. if you know how to read it, it's nothing short of a clusterfuck and would take a team of modders hundreds of hours to clean up.
    I'll give you they got bugs but official DLC's have a lot of things most mods never get right. Voice acting for one, then quests, animations, stuff like that. Most mods just use the old animations and either embarrassingly bad voice acting or just text which just give a wrong ersatz feel to it. Then another thing with mod houses is that they arent very lore friendly and the authors usually add a number of things that just don't make sense or I wouldn't want or are simply overpowered. There are a few that let you customize the houses though but still no children, no quests with voice acting to get the place etc.

    Take the Dovador one for example.. floating islands, sky portals? It might look great but immersion goes right out of the window with things like that. Sure the author provides some explanation for that but it's still not "official" and besides I wouldn't want some god home anyway, just a relatively normal house, castle, manor or whatever would do

  12. #6312
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I'll give you they got bugs but official DLC's have a lot of things most mods never get right. Voice acting for one, then quests, animations, stuff like that. Most mods just use the old animations and either embarrassingly bad voice acting or just text which just give a wrong ersatz feel to it. Then another thing with mod houses is that they arent very lore friendly and the authors usually add a number of things that just don't make sense or I wouldn't want or are simply overpowered. There are a few that let you customize the houses though but still no children, no quests with voice acting to get the place etc.

    Take the Dovador one for example.. floating islands, sky portals? It might look great but immersion goes right out of the window with things like that. Sure the author provides some explanation for that but it's still not "official" and besides I wouldn't want some god home anyway, just a relatively normal house, castle, manor or whatever would do
    Floating islands and sky portals don't make sense for Sovngarde? Really? While I agree with you on your earlier points your comparison is a bad one.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  13. #6313
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post

    and PS: the new skyre patcher is fucking amazing
    You talking about the semi-closed beta patch?


  14. #6314
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Sure the author provides some explanation for that but it's still not "official" and besides I wouldn't want some god home anyway, just a relatively normal house, castle, manor or whatever would do
    I think at that point it just boils down to personal taste. And I do have to agree with Flaks, especially considering the method of entering Sovngarde. It's mystical enough to allow for portals and floating islands.

  15. #6315
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Floating islands and sky portals don't make sense for Sovngarde? Really? While I agree with you on your earlier points your comparison is a bad one.
    No they don't.. besides, you don't really get to go to Sovngarde unless you're dead. In main quest you get there once by completing a difficult quest so it's more like a heroic deed and I didn't see any floating islands there, just very deep canyons and mountain peaks rising above clouds.

    It doesn't really matter though, things like that just feel off for me. I never tried that mod, just looked at the pictures but I've tried a few others and they usually add some funky lore that doesn't make much sense to them and they're usually heavily influenced by something the author fancies. For example if the author is a LOTR fan, they make it look like a place from the movie and add characters with LOTR names in there.

  16. #6316
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    they are known for their shitty code. if you know how to read it, it's nothing short of a clusterfuck and would take a team of modders hundreds of hours to clean up.
    Is there a way to do this without (illegally) decompiling their code? I couldn't imagine it being that bad, it's just that a game with millions of lines of code is bound to have errors.
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  17. #6317
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I'll give you they got bugs but official DLC's have a lot of things most mods never get right. Voice acting for one, then quests, animations, stuff like that. Most mods just use the old animations and either embarrassingly bad voice acting or just text which just give a wrong ersatz feel to it. Then another thing with mod houses is that they arent very lore friendly and the authors usually add a number of things that just don't make sense or I wouldn't want or are simply overpowered. There are a few that let you customize the houses though but still no children, no quests with voice acting to get the place etc.

    Take the Dovador one for example.. floating islands, sky portals? It might look great but immersion goes right out of the window with things like that. Sure the author provides some explanation for that but it's still not "official" and besides I wouldn't want some god home anyway, just a relatively normal house, castle, manor or whatever would do
    c'mon, who gives a shit about "most mods"? the only mods that matter are the best mods. Interesting NPCs has thousands of lines of high quality voice acting and some of the most creative writing i've personally ever seen. some of those NPCs are genuinely creepy, or funny as hell, or even ones you get emotionally attached to.

    then what about the hundreds of broken or incomplete quests bethesda sold us? guess who fixes that shit for free and no, it's not bethesda. moonpath to elsweyr was an enjoyable mini expansion. i didn't love the khajiit voice acting in some cases, but i can't stand the queer black farmer nazeem's voice acting either. more of a preference than quality thing.

    as for animations, ever animation mod i've seen adds a high quality animation that bethesda left out. everything from the ability to dual wield parry to jumping while sprinting to the way a chick's ass moves while she walks. they're all high quality and will be downloaded and used for years. even made a dance mod that added all those animations.

    as for the mod houses, the one hearthfire straight up copied is http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18480 (build your own home). they took his great ideas and added orphans and a few locations and made tens of thousands of dollars on it.

    i know what you're saying, you're saying the shitty mods are shitty mods. well no shit. hot water is hot too. i know you WON'T try to tell me that there aren't great mods out there though. that's why you've already resorted to what you did. you want to argue, your argument is shitty and we both know you won't change your mind.

    hell there are 3 skyrim devs who release shit on the nexus. i'm sure you'd put it down because it's a free mod even though the same guys make the shit bethesda charges you for

    your argument is the same stupid ass immature shit people say when they think the $100 jeans are superior to the $40 jeans. or that paying $15 a month for an mmo means you get more for your money. it's what people who haven't had to pay for their own shit usually say. it's inexperience, stupidity and youth that makes you say shit like that.

    if not for the modding community they wouldn't have succeeded with morrowind, much less oblivion and skyrim.

    if you haven't played the console version with no mods, try it. it's fucking pathetic and it's bethesda's work that makes it pathetic.

    they sell us a skeleton that modders flesh out

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 07:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    Is there a way to do this without (illegally) decompiling their code? I couldn't imagine it being that bad, it's just that a game with millions of lines of code is bound to have errors.
    1) it's 100% legal already. if you can do it, do it. if someone went through and optimized skyrim's code, they'd end up creating the #1 mod of all time by a large margin.

    2) here is some info on this based on what alexander (skyboost, scriptdragon) told some magazine:

    According to Alexander Blade, developer of the Skyrim performance enhancing tools SkyBoost, and his anonymous source, Bethesda have no interest in boosting the PC version of Skyrim with patches.

    First, let’s get up to speed with the state of Skyrim on the PC because, other than patch updates, we’ve not talked a great deal about Skyrim performance mods (instead focusing on a different sort of update). A great many of the flaws in in Skyrim have begun to be addressed by the modding community: graphics capabilities, the UI, and most importantly, the game’s performance. Modders quickly found whilst diving into Skyrim’s code that parts of it were missing vital optimisation.

    One modder, Arisu, managed to improve the frame rate in CPU intensive areas of the game by up to 20 fps simply by optimising the code (his mod can be found here). Alexander Blade then built on the work of Arisu, further improving the game’s performance in a mod called SkyBoost (you can get his mod here).

    It is important to note that these mods are optimising Bethesda’s work, they aren’t adding completely new extensions. So it begins to pose the question, are Bethesda going to implement these changes in a patch, applying the benefits to all Skyrim players instead of just those who are comfortable with modding?

    Well according to Blade, no. Instead, he claims they have no plans of implementing these changes. Whether this is because they are working intently on DLC and only patching the game-breaking bugs we don’t yet know.

    3) it's bad. really, really, really bad. you will not find a game that is worse. bethesda knows that modders will fix that shit for free. they know that competition in that market isn't bigger than the TES brand can overcome.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 07:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    You talking about the semi-closed beta patch?
    yeah. pm t3nd0 and he'll send it to you or i can send it via pm if you want it now. lets you get rid of a bunch of patches and even modify some stuff via .xml and he's got it set up to be very simple.
    Last edited by fizzbob; 2012-12-17 at 01:24 AM.

  18. #6318
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    c'mon, who gives a shit about "most mods"? the only mods that matter are the best mods. Interesting NPCs has thousands of lines of high quality voice acting and some of the most creative writing i've personally ever seen. some of those NPCs are genuinely creepy, or funny as hell, or even ones you get emotionally attached to.

    then what about the hundreds of broken or incomplete quests bethesda sold us? guess who fixes that shit for free and no, it's not bethesda. moonpath to elsweyr was an enjoyable mini expansion. i didn't love the khajiit voice acting in some cases, but i can't stand the queer black farmer nazeem's voice acting either. more of a preference than quality thing.

    as for animations, ever animation mod i've seen adds a high quality animation that bethesda left out. everything from the ability to dual wield parry to jumping while sprinting to the way a chick's ass moves while she walks. they're all high quality and will be downloaded and used for years. even made a dance mod that added all those animations.

    as for the mod houses, the one hearthfire straight up copied is http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18480 (build your own home). they took his great ideas and added orphans and a few locations and made tens of thousands of dollars on it.

    i know what you're saying, you're saying the shitty mods are shitty mods. well no shit. hot water is hot too. i know you WON'T try to tell me that there aren't great mods out there though. that's why you've already resorted to what you did. you want to argue, your argument is shitty and we both know you won't change your mind.

    hell there are 3 skyrim devs who release shit on the nexus. i'm sure you'd put it down because it's a free mod even though the same guys make the shit bethesda charges you for

    your argument is the same stupid ass immature shit people say when they think the $100 jeans are superior to the $40 jeans. or that paying $15 a month for an mmo means you get more for your money. it's what people who haven't had to pay for their own shit usually say. it's inexperience, stupidity and youth that makes you say shit like that.

    if not for the modding community they wouldn't have succeeded with morrowind, much less oblivion and skyrim.

    if you haven't played the console version with no mods, try it. it's fucking pathetic and it's bethesda's work that makes it pathetic.

    they sell us a skeleton that modders flesh out

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 07:15 PM ----------



    1) it's 100% legal already. if you can do it, do it. if someone went through and optimized skyrim's code, they'd end up creating the #1 mod of all time by a large margin.

    2) here is some info on this based on what alexander (skyboost, scriptdragon) told someone:

    According to Alexander Blade, developer of the Skyrim performance enhancing tools SkyBoost, and his anonymous source, Bethesda have no interest in boosting the PC version of Skyrim with patches.
    First, let’s get up to speed with the state of Skyrim on the PC because, other than patch updates, we’ve not talked a great deal about Skyrim performance mods (instead focusing on a different sort of update). A great many of the flaws in in Skyrim have begun to be addressed by the modding community: graphics capabilities, the UI, and most importantly, the game’s performance. Modders quickly found whilst diving into Skyrim’s code that parts of it were missing vital optimisation.
    One modder, Arisu, managed to improve the frame rate in CPU intensive areas of the game by up to 20 fps simply by optimising the code (his mod can be found here). Alexander Blade then built on the work of Arisu, further improving the game’s performance in a mod called SkyBoost (you can get his mod here).
    It is important to note that these mods are optimising Bethesda’s work, they aren’t adding completely new extensions. So it begins to pose the question, are Bethesda going to implement these changes in a patch, applying the benefits to all Skyrim players instead of just those who are comfortable with modding?
    Well according to Blade, no. Instead, he claims they have no plans of implementing these changes. Whether this is because they are working intently on DLC and only patching the game-breaking bugs we don’t yet know.

    3) it's bad. really, really, really bad. you will not find a game that is worse. bethesda knows that modders will fix that shit for free. they know that competition in that market isn't bigger than the TES brand can overcome.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 07:17 PM ----------



    yeah. pm t3nd0 and he'll send it to you or i can send it via pm if you want it now. lets you get rid of a bunch of patches and even modify some stuff via .xml and he's got it set up to be very simple.
    Whoa.. why so hostile? I never said all mods are bad, in fact I'm using over 15 mods myself..

    What I was saying was

    1) Official mods are always the lore friendliest so they are "safe bet" so to speak.

    2) Most otherwise good mods also add clutter, unwanted changes or authors ideas about unrelated thingsthat she/he thinks should be different that are impossible to remove from the mod. For example if I want a house mod, I don't want it to come with teleport spells, skimpy armor and sluts in my house. Or if I want better textures, I don't want some miniquests of buffs to unarmed damage or things like that.

    And finally, yes, there are really good mods without any of these problems but it takes so long to find them and sort through all the trash while official mods are more or less a sure bet for those who dont have the time for it.

    For example Im trying to find a vampire mod that just adds sun damage and reverses the stages (so youre the most powerful after feeding). No luck so far. There are tons of mods that do it but after 4-5 hours of searching at least, I haven't been able to find a single one that isn't bugged or doesn't add unwanted features like making vampire god mode or quests, spells perks etc.
    Last edited by Lizbeth; 2012-12-17 at 01:34 AM.

  19. #6319
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Whoa.. why so hostile? I never said all mods are bad, in fact I'm using over 15 mods myself..

    What I was saying was

    1) Official mods are always the lore friendliest so they are "safe bet" so to speak.

    2) Most otherwise good mods also add clutter, unwanted changes or authors ideas about unrelated thingsthat she/he thinks should be different that are impossible to remove from the mod. For example if I want a house mod, I don't want it to come with teleport spells, skimpy armor and sluts in my house. Or if I want better textures, I don't want some miniquests of buffs to unarmed damage or things like that.

    And finally, yes, there are really good mods without any of these problems but it takes so long to find them and sort through all the trash while official mods are more or less a sure bet for those who dont have the time for it.
    i was about to edit that to make it sound less hostile, i'm sorry about that. i look and sound way more pissed than i usually am.

    my point in a nicer way is that i know what you're saying, i know where you're coming from but for that to be right you have to intentionally ignore all the great mods that people have and will continue to make.

    i love TES lore, i loved dawnguard and serana is probably my favorite NPC ever in any game right now. my point is that there is equal and superior quality work coming from modders who do it for the community. whether the mod/dlc has a price tag or not is totally irrelevant. price does not equate to value.

    it's the same with WoW addons. people don't give mod/addon creators the credit they deserve. around 200 addons have been incorporated into wow since launch just like MOST of the content in morrowind/oblivion/skyrim is NOT made by bethesda.

    you seem hung up on what's canon and what isn't more than what is lore-friendly. i like lore-friendly, my female NPCs don't wear the skimpy shit and i'm not using the TERA armors mod. it's just not immersive. but whether shit is canon or not is just not important, most of what happens in games isn't canon from the user's standpoint.
    Last edited by fizzbob; 2012-12-17 at 01:35 AM.

  20. #6320
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    i was about to edit that to make it sound less hostile, i'm sorry about that. i look and sound way more pissed than i usually am.

    my point in a nicer way is that i know what you're saying, i know where you're coming from but for that to be right you have to intentionally ignore all the great mods that people have and will continue to make.

    i love TES lore, i loved dawnguard and serana is probably my favorite NPC ever in any game right now. my point is that there is equal and superior quality work coming from modders who do it for the community. whether the mod/dlc has a price tag or not is totally irrelevant. price does not equate to value.

    it's the same with WoW addons. people don't give mod/addon creators the credit they deserve. around 200 addons have been incorporated into wow since launch just like MOST of the content in morrowind/oblivion/skyrim is NOT made by bethesda.

    you seem hung up on what's canon and what isn't more than what is lore-friendly. i like lore-friendly, my female NPCs don't wear the skimpy shit and i'm not using the TERA armors mod. it's just not immersive. but whether shit is canon or not is just not important, most of what happens in games isn't canon from the user's standpoint.
    Don't get me wrong, without the mods, I think I wouldn't even be playing Skyrim right now. So yes, the makers of good mods deserve all the credit. I guess I'm just a little frustrated because a lot mod authors can't make otherwise good mods modular.

    I'm not even that obsessed with lore friendliness and whats canon as long as it doesn't feel off somehow or ruin the immersion (like a dwemer machine gun, floating anime city or horse lasers would:P)

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