1. #6501
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    Fair enough. What cheat loops mod are/were you using? I think I need to get a couple for myself (sneak, alchemy, enchanting) although I refuse to use them in my current game.
    Vanilla game? Didn't use the fortify restoration one, it was an obvious bug and probably not intended (enchant gear with fortify alchemy, make fortify restoration potion, drink it, unequip, reequip fortify alchemy gear, make new potion etc. and in the end make godmode fortify enchanting or fortify smithing potion). But even without that, the obvious although slower fortify enchanting potion, make fortify alchemy gear with it loop is still there. I had a mod before that broke the restoration bug loop but I abused the last one till I got skyre, which thankfully broke it. Bethesda really needs to hire some balance developers for TES 6 Everything is either super, mindnumbingly hard and then after you learn one trick, make one spell, it's effortless. Oblivion had that sleep spell abuse too, weakness to magic + paralyze custom spell which put everything to sleep for hours if you used it a few times in a row.

    And cheat mods? Me? Unthinkable! I've never used any cheat or godmode item or code or mod in any game, honestly! Yea, Im boring:P I just dont want to intentionally not use game mechanics that are right out in the open. It just breaks immersion and is kinda stupid. I mean if there's a daedric goddagger of epic oneshotting right in my reach, why would I possibly take some crummy iron dagger instead?

    I just hope the author of Skyre gets over hes obsession with crossbows and nerfs them. He got rid of destruction stunlock and then intentionally creates a new, stronger one?

  2. #6502
    The Lightbringer Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    And cheat mods? Me? Unthinkable! I've never used any cheat or godmode item or code or mod in any game, honestly! Yea, Im boring:P I just dont want to intentionally not use game mechanics that are right out in the open. It just breaks immersion and is kinda stupid. I mean if there's a daedric goddagger of epic oneshotting right in my reach, why would I possibly take some crummy iron dagger instead?
    No, lol, I meant mods that fix the exploits so you can't use them. ACE had them, but sadly it doesn't cover all the trees. I guess I'll just stay away from those skill trees. I'm playing hardcore RP anyway - sticking with steel armor only.

  3. #6503
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    No, lol, I meant mods that fix the exploits so you can't use them. ACE had them, but sadly it doesn't cover all the trees. I guess I'll just stay away from those skill trees. I'm playing hardcore RP anyway - sticking with steel armor only.
    I guess I misunderstood you then:P Thought you were looking for cheats and exploits. Actually theres just so many of them in vanilla game. Skyre fixes a lot but it also adds some things that are not exactly immersive so I guess it's not for everyone.

    There an exploit in nearly every tree in vanilla. Destruction has stunlock, illusion has invisibility, enchanting has 0 mana cost with 4 or fewer armor pieces, sneak gets too strong too fast and after 60-70 with perks invested, you become undetectable indoors and call kill everything with a dagger even on master. To fix most of them you'd need a complete overhaul.

    What worked for me before Skyre was just patching the loops, I forgot what the mod was called but it was some tiny one that worked well and slowed down leveling speed to 1/5 of the original. Most of the overpowered things only come later in game so I was hoping to complete most of the game before getting any skill to 100 and then its not that bad if I do become OP, after saving the world 5 times and being the archmage and leader of the thieves and everything buuut nah. I barely got through the thieves guild quests + maybe 50 or so odd jobs for them and my enchanting was at 100 again, then 0 mana cost invisibility and everything became boring.

  4. #6504
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I guess I misunderstood you then:P Thought you were looking for cheats and exploits. Actually theres just so many of them in vanilla game. Skyre fixes a lot but it also adds some things that are not exactly immersive so I guess it's not for everyone.

    There an exploit in nearly every tree in vanilla. Destruction has stunlock, illusion has invisibility, enchanting has 0 mana cost with 4 or fewer armor pieces, sneak gets too strong too fast and after 60-70 with perks invested, you become undetectable indoors and call kill everything with a dagger even on master. To fix most of them you'd need a complete overhaul.

    What worked for me before Skyre was just patching the loops, I forgot what the mod was called but it was some tiny one that worked well and slowed down leveling speed to 1/5 of the original. Most of the overpowered things only come later in game so I was hoping to complete most of the game before getting any skill to 100 and then its not that bad if I do become OP, after saving the world 5 times and being the archmage and leader of the thieves and everything buuut nah. I barely got through the thieves guild quests + maybe 50 or so odd jobs for them and my enchanting was at 100 again, then 0 mana cost invisibility and everything became boring.
    This world is so far away from me. I have 50 hours played on one character. His smithing is 30 and his enchanting is like..15. The only way to level them fast is running around buying everything from vendors allover the place and rinse and repeat that. As long as you do not do this and just nicely play the game as it is intended, you'll never have enough steel or iron to even get beyond 45 before level 30. Unless, of course, you neglect all other progress and just go hunting for iron in mines.

    I always have to laugh when I see people claiming that everything went too fast for them, while forgetting to mention that they exploited the system (shop respawns etc) to get that fast in first place.

  5. #6505
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    This world is so far away from me. I have 50 hours played on one character. His smithing is 30 and his enchanting is like..15. The only way to level them fast is running around buying everything from vendors allover the place and rinse and repeat that. As long as you do not do this and just nicely play the game as it is intended, you'll never have enough steel or iron to even get beyond 45 before level 30. Unless, of course, you neglect all other progress and just go hunting for iron in mines.

    I always have to laugh when I see people claiming that everything went too fast for them, while forgetting to mention that they exploited the system (shop respawns etc) to get that fast in first place.
    Never did that. I don't use fast travel so I was just running from place to place, picking up all the flowers and butterflies and stuff as well as mining ores. Even at the start, after one trip when I made all those into potions, I ended up with 10-20 more alchemy levels and 10k gold. So alchemy went up FAST. After exploring all the cities and maybe doing 1-2 quests, I was already at 60-70. Same with enchanting.. I never really used it before 100 for my own enchants but even disenchanting everything and only using the soul gems I found game I got that to 60 70 as well before even really starting playing.

    And no, I never used wait command or exploited like that (besides, I was using needs mod from the start so I would have starved to death anyway like that:P) but I did buy every herb and bar when visiting a town yes. How is that exploiting? It's there for sale, not buying it is as stupid as not using armor because it makes you get hit too little..

    Besides, even if I did, why should players force themselves not to use some of the game features? If I set the difficulty to master or experts, I should expect some challenge, no? Handicapping yourself is not a challenge. You could argue for bug abuse but not something that is just plain out there.
    Last edited by Lizbeth; 2013-01-07 at 07:09 PM.

  6. #6506
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Never did that. I don't use fast travel so I was just running from place to place, picking up all the flowers and butterflies and stuff as well as mining ores. Even at the start, after one trip when I made all those into potions, I ended up with 10-20 more alchemy levels and 10k gold. So alchemy went up FAST. After exploring all the cities and maybe doing 1-2 quests, I was already at 60-70. Same with enchanting.. I never really used it before 100 for my own enchants but even disenchanting everything and only using the soul gems I found game I got that to 60 70 as well before even really starting playing.

    And no, I never used wait command or exploited like that (besides, I was using needs mod from the start so I would have starved to death anyway like that:P) but I did buy every herb and bar when visiting a town yes. How is that exploiting? It's there for sale, not buying it is as stupid as not using armor because it makes you get hit too little..
    Because, as far as I know, their assortment replenishes and is therefore infinite and is therefore, in my eyes, an exploit. So I don't.

  7. #6507
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Because, as far as I know, their assortment replenishes and is therefore infinite and is therefore, in my eyes, an exploit. So I don't.
    It's a shop, of course it replenishes. If you buy all the cheese from your local supermarket and go back tomorrow, do you expect there to be no more cheese then?

  8. #6508
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    It's a shop, of course it replenishes. If you buy all the cheese from your local supermarket and go back tomorrow, do you expect there to be no more cheese then?
    Practically, I expect them to. But waiting for it to happen also takes a lot longer Purely from a gameplay mechanic, I see it as abusing the system Which is why my road to LOLSOEASY TO GET 100, is actually a lot slower. And I enjoy it, while at the same time, never needing mods to force that particular speed.

    Oh and now I think about it, re-stocking calculations are based on average sales. So if you buy all cheese in the store and the average sale per day is like ~2 and you just bought a 100 pieces, he will only have two the next day. If you respect the fact that the lore suggests that in Skyrim, we have no cars, no distribution centres and no on demand delivery, I would imagine restocking in a "real" Skyrim world, would take more than a few weeks.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2013-01-07 at 09:14 PM.

  9. #6509
    The Lightbringer Fhi's Avatar
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    I kinda see both sides to be honest. The question lies in the degree of extremity. On one hand, someone who deliberately exploits would, say, sneak around the bear in the Helgen escape for 2 hours until sneak = 100 before leaving Helgen. On the other hand, someone else might say "Master is too easy, I'll just fight in my undies" and never spend perks. You can't really say that anyone who then chooses to wear armor and spend perk points are exploiting. I think, if by playing the game regularly, you become overpowered, that's a design fault, not abusing the system.

    Crafting loop, yes. Not intended, definitely an exploit. But buying items from vendors when they're there, it's a design fault if it is not intended. There's a difference between avoiding exploits and deliberately restricting/gimping your game play. You shouldn't have to min/max, but you shouldn't have to intentionally screw yourself over anyway.

    In my case, I have an economics mod. Prices are brutal (as they should be) depending on where you are. Iron ore in Whiterun where it is cheapest due to abundance of iron mines is 187g per ore, so it's not like I can just buy 300 of them and get smithing up by 50 levels. With the mod, I don't have to deliberately gimp myself, and I made a personal choice not to use exploits. I can play the game regularly, get frustrated that I can't seem to find enough corundrum ore to make steel items to get past level 28 smithing, but I don't have to gimp myself.

    Ultimately, mods are a personal preference. Many play perfectly fine without any - the game is made playable without mods. They are far from necessary, but for some of us who likes more depth in a video game, mods suit our needs just fine.

  10. #6510
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post

    Ultimately, mods are a personal preference. Many play perfectly fine without any - the game is made playable without mods. They are far from necessary, but for some of us who likes more depth in a video game, mods suit our needs just fine.
    All I was saying is, many, many people go like: "Skyrim Vanilla is just sooo waaay easy. I like, leveled all my perks to 100 before level 20 and I didn't even tryyyy *gay handgesture*" [for the record, not a stab at gay people, but you know what I mean] And then they start explaining how mods made that experience so much better because it's now hardcore hard to do things. But little old me, well, I have a few mods that add more flavour to my game, does it all without and can't even begin to see himself get a 100 smithing without dedicating a hundred hours of farming in mines.

    My issue is not with mods. Nor is my issue with one person specifically. I just noticed a lot of this behaviour and in my humble opinion it's due to the fact that the game mechanics allow you to excessively "make use" of vendors to actually get your perks up to 100 with the speed of a train, that people show this behaviour. In essence, it's still abuse. Don't do it and it all becomes a lot harder and more rewarding.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2013-01-07 at 10:26 PM.

  11. #6511
    I just think that without any mods, there should be far less obvious exploits, overpowered things and shortcuts. Every time I played on vanilla settings and without even trying, I got alchemy to 100 in less than 5 hours into the game. I didn't wait around in shops, just picked flowers etc. on my path because I didn't like fast travel as it didn't feel very immersive. Only way around that would have deliberately not picking up herbs or make potions.

    And 100 alchemy was already godmode even on master difficulty. Insane smithing potions to make 1 shotting bows and daggers and invisibility potions to bypass everything. Not that I needed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijB2f-s5iyg pretty much guaranteed I could clear any dungeon even at level 1.

    So yea, Bethesdas balancing is just terrible and always have been but the mods have always improved everything considerably. I just feel a little sorry for the console players.

  12. #6512
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    And 100 alchemy was already godmode even on master difficulty. Insane smithing potions to make 1 shotting bows and daggers and invisibility potions to bypass everything. Not that I needed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijB2f-s5iyg pretty much guaranteed I could clear any dungeon even at level 1.
    Oh yeah, no one is saying stealth isn't overpowered. Up to the point that I refuse to take it on some characters. All stealth + bow attacks are just too bloody bugged. Oh there's this guy I absolutely can't oneshot with anything and I have no frost or fire resistance so his spells literally oneshot me, so instead I will lurk in the dark and shoot over 50 arrows in his face until he dies.

    That was on a char that didn't have any ranged perks and tried to go 1H all the way.

  13. #6513
    It's amazing how no matter which start I pick on Alternate Start, I always drift to Riverwood first.

  14. #6514
    Bloodsail Admiral Vathdar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    It's amazing how no matter which start I pick on Alternate Start, I always drift to Riverwood first.
    Yeah, happens to me all the time aswell, except this time I started in Winterhold so it's taking me a very long time. :P

  15. #6515
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I just think that without any mods, there should be far less obvious exploits, overpowered things and shortcuts. Every time I played on vanilla settings and without even trying, I got alchemy to 100 in less than 5 hours into the game. I didn't wait around in shops, just picked flowers etc. on my path because I didn't like fast travel as it didn't feel very immersive. Only way around that would have deliberately not picking up herbs or make potions.

    And 100 alchemy was already godmode even on master difficulty. Insane smithing potions to make 1 shotting bows and daggers and invisibility potions to bypass everything. Not that I needed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijB2f-s5iyg pretty much guaranteed I could clear any dungeon even at level 1.

    So yea, Bethesdas balancing is just terrible and always have been but the mods have always improved everything considerably. I just feel a little sorry for the console players.
    Why feel sorry for us console players in terms of balance? I actually LIKE being able to become a bit OP for a change! ^_^

    Only thing I wish I can get are a few tiny mods like the bug fixes that the PC gets. It really infuriates me that Bethesda has NOT even put out a bug-fix patch for ANY version of the game. >_<

    I didn't even touch any professions until I was nearly done exploring the majority of the world. Alchemy was the one I leveled the last - and hated every minute of it. >_<
    Isn't it immature that you call him Donald "Dump"?
    I agree, it's childish and stupid - and that's my point. it's meant as a deliberate mockery of his blatant disrespect via using "Crooked Hillary", and thus I can call him "Dump" since he dumps his campaign promises, dumps campaign managers, dumps his wives, wants to dump the first amendment, dumps common-sense war ethics and dumps the use of proper English in favor of a mongrel white-trash dialect.

  16. #6516
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    They have put out bug fix patches.

  17. #6517
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Why feel sorry for us console players in terms of balance? I actually LIKE being able to become a bit OP for a change! ^_^

    Only thing I wish I can get are a few tiny mods like the bug fixes that the PC gets. It really infuriates me that Bethesda has NOT even put out a bug-fix patch for ANY version of the game. >_<

    I didn't even touch any professions until I was nearly done exploring the majority of the world. Alchemy was the one I leveled the last - and hated every minute of it. >_<
    because people without a modded PC skyrim are playing a shitty game. a game they got royally fucked on. that's why people feel sorry for console gamers who play skyrim

    the game is buggy, broken and of low overall quality. without mods it's not worth $10

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 11:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    They have put out bug fix patches.
    of the 750 known bugs they've fixed around 60

    the unofficial patch fixes more bugs right now than bethesda ever will. they're not known for making top quality games. the modding community is why they're still in business and it's always been this way.

    that's why their nickname is bugthesda

  18. #6518
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    It's amazing how no matter which start I pick on Alternate Start, I always drift to Riverwood first.
    This, so much this...

    Please post constructively and not spam
    Last edited by Remilia; 2013-01-08 at 05:56 AM.

  19. #6519
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    of the 750 known bugs they've fixed around 60

    the unofficial patch fixes more bugs right now than bethesda ever will. they're not known for making top quality games. the modding community is why they're still in business and it's always been this way.

    that's why their nickname is bugthesda
    Eh, I've never had that many issues with Bethesda titles. I understand the complaints, though.

  20. #6520
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    because people without a modded PC skyrim are playing a shitty game. a game they got royally fucked on. that's why people feel sorry for console gamers who play skyrim

    the game is buggy, broken and of low overall quality. without mods it's not worth $10
    I disagree with you. Honestly, from all the posts I've read in this thread, I don't see that great of a difference between console and pc. So far, my Skyrim has worked just fine and I have yet to encounter any groundbreaking bugs that makes the game unplayable for me. The mods, while cool, do not seem necessary to make the game better in anyway.

    But hey, everyone has a preference. I just happen to prefer playing on my xbox.

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