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  1. #1

    Is there a place for a non-keybind focused MMO?

    I'm growing quite tired of MMOs with 50 different spells that you bind to qwert, 123456, shift+12345 etc.

    I, personally, would loooove an MMO with a more action-RPG take on combat, where it's less numbers determining how much damage you take and more of an active approach to avoiding damage. (Guild Wars 2 is a start but it's still a keybind-MMO).

    Would an MMO with Dark Souls combat work? I would personally love to play something like that.
    We already know that you can have different classes because you "have" classes in Dark Souls. Just increase the number of spells for casters, while melee classes focus more on weapon attacks á la light and heavy attacks.

    There would be more of an emphasis on self-healing (Think Bloodborne's blood vials), and that you are king of your own survival.

    I think that the MMO genre is stagnant, and need some new ideas. I understand that keybind MMOs are working, that's why they are still here, but there MUST be a way for alternative combat even in this genre?

    For some more extreme thoughts, imagine an MMO with Devil May Cry-style combat.

  2. #2
    Most modern MMOs have either vastly reduced numbers of keybinds compared to your more traditional tab targeters.

    ESO - RMB / LMB main attacks, 1-5 keybinds
    GW2 - 8 Spells + 1 Autoshot
    Skyforge - RMB / LMB main attacks, 3 keybinds I believe

    As a few things to try out
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  3. #3
    Destiny too.

    10 CHAR

  4. #4
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Vindictus?

  5. #5
    The 3rd era of MMOs is defined by an arcade or action game centered approach to design and interface. So, of course there is such a place for non-keybind MMOs. The question seems ignorant of the current market and design.

  6. #6
    Doesn't TERA and Wildstar sort of meet this criteria as well?
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyclone View Post
    Doesn't TERA and Wildstar sort of meet this criteria as well?
    Not sure about TERA but yeah Wildstar is 1-8 only.
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  8. #8
    The Secret World as well. it's not far from ESO or wildstar in it's bar set up. though it often has some odd consumable things you may consider using, like a flamethrower or or lesser version of a skill you can unlock.

  9. #9
    Vindictus
    Neverwinter online
    Gw2
    Firefall
    Warframe
    Elderscrolls online
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  10. #10
    Warchief Littleraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyclone View Post
    Doesn't TERA and Wildstar sort of meet this criteria as well?
    ^This. TERA and Wildstar are both similar to what you are looking for. TERA especially. TERA is focused a lot on the mouse with the only real key presses being reactionary to things. From the little I played of it there was no real rotation to speak of but I never got to the point of doing endgame stuff so it could change radically then.

    Wildstar though made a concious decision to limit you to 8 keys. You have more abilities than that but unlike in WoW you can only bind abilities to 8 keys and not every key. So there is much more "choice" when it comes to building your character. I never did end game in that either so I don't know if there are cookie cutter builds or whatever but those 2 games probably come closest to what you are looking for.

    Honorable mention goes out to ESO but I have next to no experience with that game.
    "The Horde has committed heinous crimes, Vol'jin. But some among you fought against Garrosh's tyranny. For that, I'm willing to end this bloodshed. But know this : if your Horde fails to uphold honor as Garrosh did, we will end you." - High King Varian Wrynn

  11. #11
    If anything, Wildstar is even further from what the OP is looking for than GW2 is.

  12. #12
    PVE content without a trinity system is garbage IMO. It becomes Diablo esque with just a bunch of people hacking away at a mob with little to no strategic thinking involved.

    But yea, you can play FFXIV just fine on the ps4 controller so you can def do a traditional MMO without the need of a million key binds. Hell, square even got the game to work fine for you on remote play on the vita with 2 less buttons.(Strictly from a keybind perspective, FFXIV is nothing like the action based game you describe that you want)

  13. #13
    I always wondered if TERA was worth the investment to play. I had played Wildstar at two seperate times, and while it has improved a decent bit since the launch, it is still very ruthless/slow/challenging to level (Tho I heard they just recently nerfed the monsters, I kind of hope so since life or death battles any time it becomes a 2v1 fight gets old... fast). I enjoy a challenge when it is something worth putting a challenge towards (Big boss fights, raids, etc) but... in the leveling side of things, I don't want to slowly grind myself through hell to get anywhere, that would be my biggest complaint of wildstar. I like the game... but they really made leveling a pain in the ass.

    How has TERA been for that?
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  14. #14
    The Insane Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    Vindictus
    Neverwinter online
    Gw2
    Firefall
    Warframe
    Elderscrolls online
    TERA
    Wildstar
    Dragon's Nest
    Blade and Soul coming west
    and so many more.

    I have to wonder if the OP has even looked at the MMO space in the last 5 years tbh. As insulting as it sounds, it's a post questioning why there are no new ideas, yet it's ignorant of every game that fulfills the criteria listed. I don't understand.
    BAD WOLF

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    TERA
    Wildstar
    Dragon's Nest
    Blade and Soul coming west
    and so many more.

    I have to wonder if the OP has even looked at the MMO space in the last 5 years tbh. As insulting as it sounds, it's a post questioning why there are no new ideas, yet it's ignorant of every game that fulfills the criteria listed. I don't understand.
    He is looking for tightly tuned action combat like Dark Souls. None of those are even close to that criteria. Even the closest games to it like GW2, TERA and Vindictus are still so far from the tightly tuned action combat of Souls. I think he poorly worded the topic of the thread, because his beef clearly is not just with the amount of key binds in MMOs if you read it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    If anything, Wildstar is even further from what the OP is looking for than GW2 is.
    How do you figure? Aside from a very specific circumstance (targetted single heals, which is NOT very common given the way anything works in Wildstar), the game is entirely playable with a gaming mouse and occassionally tapping the keyboard to roll out of the way or sprint.

    To me, active combat is one where you don't have to hit the tab key to select an enemy, and instead you just fight (and your survival is based on your ability to disrupt the enemy or avoid their attacks outright through action, not actual statistic dice rolls). Given that WS also uses minimal keybindings and such, you can almost entirely avoid using a keyboard for the entire game if you wanted. Also WS has a hefty amount of evasion involved, you dodge most of what comes your way. Special abilities and such govern most of what you encounter in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius
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    Alrighty then...

  17. #17
    The Insane Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    He is looking for tightly tuned action combat like Dark Souls. None of those are even close to that criteria. Even the closest games to it like GW2, TERA and Vindictus are still so far from the tightly tuned action combat of Souls. I think he poorly worded the topic of the thread, because his beef clearly is not just with the amount of key binds in MMOs if you read it.
    I think you should read it instead of seeing 'Dark Souls' and creating your own narrative.
    I, personally, would loooove an MMO with a more action-RPG take on combat, where it's less numbers determining how much damage you take and more of an active approach to avoiding damage.
    Ok, that's Tera or Vindictus. The only differences are having numerical leveling systems which have nothing to do with action combat nor keybinds which is what translates into needing stat systems in the first place. Personally I think no levels works fine, but the genre seems pretty hell bent on that. I can understand that bit of design getting tossed out. GW2 without levels would have nailed this to the 99% degree.
    There would be more of an emphasis on self-healing (Think Bloodborne's blood vials), and that you are king of your own survival.
    Again, several games apply, but let's toss out GW2 as this primary example.
    I think that the MMO genre is stagnant, and need some new ideas. I understand that keybind MMOs are working, that's why they are still here, but there MUST be a way for alternative combat even in this genre?
    All of the games listed have alternatives to traditional tab target, large keybind MMOs. I'm sorry, but unless they are just arguing for wanting to use mouseclicks and no keys, what else is trying to be said here? All of the games listed fit into this picture. The one reference of Dark Souls has no bearing on the overall weight of this subject. Fencers stated it correctly. This is ignorant of the current market in its entirety.
    BAD WOLF

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    All of the games listed have alternatives to traditional tab target, large keybind MMOs. I'm sorry, but unless they are just arguing for wanting to use mouseclicks and no keys, what else is trying to be said here? All of the games listed fit into this picture. The one reference of Dark Souls has no bearing on the overall weight of this subject. Fencers stated it correctly. This is ignorant of the current market in its entirety.
    It reminds me of all the posts from people bitching that there are no new games/ideas/etc and when you ask them what they've played in the last year, they say, "Call of Duty and WoW, but there's nothing new!"

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Even the closest games to it like GW2, TERA and Vindictus are still so far from the tightly tuned action combat of Souls.
    GW2 I'll give you as it's a different style of combat, but TERA and especially Vindictus have very tight combat. TERA has longer animation locks which lend it to a slightly slower combat feel, but it's a 100% functional action combat system that makes pretty heavy use of hotkeys to supplement clicks. Vindictus doesn't make us of many hotkeys and has faster/"snappier" combat due to the shorter animation locks and the greater focus on click-based combos.

  20. #20
    The Insane Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It reminds me of all the posts from people bitching that there are no new games/ideas/etc and when you ask them what they've played in the last year, they say, "Call of Duty and WoW, but there's nothing new!"
    That's an accurate assessment in my mind. And I really mean no harm to the OP. I don't use ignorant to mean insulting, but literally that they can't know what's going on or they wouldn't have phrased these questions. Almost like my great grandmother wondering why we haven't come up with something better than a rotary phone, suggesting that we could just push number buttons instead...then I show her a smartphone were you can talk to call someone and her head explodes.
    BAD WOLF

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