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  1. #1

    Why are 4x RTS so hard to get into?

    I mean, the genre appeals to me, but when I buy one of these 4x games, they're so complicated to learn that it just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I want to play the game and have fun, not be overwhelmed and get headaches trying to figure out how to do stuff.

    In other words, what are some good 4x games that even an idiot can understand and have fun with.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Descense's Avatar
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    Stardrive is simple enogh to understand...its nothing special tho.

  3. #3
    Pretty much every 4x game on the lowest diffculty. A specific game? Probably civ5 or the heroes of might and magic series.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Joathen's Avatar
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    Sins of a Solar Empire is pretty basic, if you decide to check it out their standalone Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion has the content from all the previous iterations.

  5. #5
    Civ5 on low difficulty setting would probably be a good entry point that is not too complicated.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Joathen View Post
    Sins of a Solar Empire is pretty basic
    Yeah, try Sins of a Solar Empire. It has a grand scale, but the gameplay is pretty quick to learn, just like normal RTSs. I did the tutorial myself and I knew how to play the game from there.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Civ5 on low difficulty setting would probably be a good entry point that is not too complicated.
    I already own Civ 5. Good game. =)

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    Sins is easy to learn, but still retains massive depth and challenge. Should start there.
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  9. #9
    Grand Strategy games often has a hard time introducing new players to the game, simply due to their immense complexity.

    One of the best ways to get into those games is to look up tutorials on youtube, and watch those for an hour or two, in order to get an understanding of the game. Then start the game, and if possible choose an easy starting point. Afterwards whenever there's something you don't remember or understands what does, alt-tab out and google it.

    For Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 I've found that youtuber Arumba has some pretty good videos, both having some for general introduction, and some explaining different ingame-concepts.

    Some people might not like the idea of spending a few hours learning how to play a game, but compared to the rediculous number of hours of entertainment you can get from these games, it's not really that bad to spend a few learning how to play
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  10. #10
    Mechagnome Nazrark's Avatar
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    Id start with Sins: Rebellion. There is a very active mod community for it as well. Plus it can be relatively easy to learn. But when you attempt to play the insane AI. Things get down right ugly. Other than that, Civ 5 is great as well. GalCiv2 is getting more complex and 3 really cleaned up the ui. But it is in Alpha and costs 100 dollars. But that includes all future expansions for the game. So easily worth it. We have Endless Space. And to round out the insane planning of Crusadet Kings 2 or EU4. Like, when starting a game. Sitting with the game paused for about an hour seeing how to set up your current children and then planning for future children. It is extremely rewarding to beat the scenario.

    The major obstacle for most people trying to play these types of games. Is time and the ability to plan 4-5 moves ahead of what you are doing. There really isn't a quick gratification for the games. Even with Sins. If you are winning, the AI will ally and gang up on you. They will also give the pirates missions to attack your planets without you being the roaming target. Watching the AI band together to fight you off is awesome. With a 400-500 ship fleet engaging 1200 ships. There is no way you can come out a victor without losing your entire fleet.

    Currently using the Galactic Empire mod. I've been attacked by over 40 cap ships and they carved a nice hole in my empire before I stopped their advance.

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  11. #11
    Well most of 4X games were TB, don't know the recent games, but it seems weird to make them RT. I guess it's just mistake on your part and you meant strategies in general, not limited to real-time ones.

    If they are difficult to get into it's probably interface/feature bloat fault. Old Civilization (the very first one) was very easy to get into, very simple and yet deep enough to be entertaining.

  12. #12
    Because they don't lend themselves to ease of use by their nature. No worries though, if the 4x genre ever gets big enough I'm sure it'll be streamlined and murdered like any other.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    Well most of 4X games were TB, don't know the recent games, but it seems weird to make them RT. I guess it's just mistake on your part and you meant strategies in general, not limited to real-time ones.
    Yeah, I think the OP is misusing genre names. RTS and 4X are two completely different genres.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  14. #14
    Mmmm, Civ isn't all that complex but it does take a few playthroughs to really understand it. IIRC my first playthrough was a total disaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siffi View Post
    Pretty much every 4x game on the lowest diffculty. A specific game? Probably civ5 or the heroes of might and magic series.
    I don't think HoMM is 4x.
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  15. #15
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I don't think HoMM is 4x.
    Umm... Why wouldn't it be 4X? What do you think it is, then?
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  16. #16
    the genre is hard to get into but you need to play a few games to get the idea, last 4x i played was distant worlds which allows you to set near the whole game on automated while letting you wean into what you want to do most be that combat or diplomacy. the drawing point to a 4x is that a lot of them have depth which sets it apart from the regular rts.

    i'm still waiting for someone to do a good 4x maybe combine the depth of something like distant worlds with the custom ship building of either star ruler or star drive. both games i thought were quite fun but lacking in the depth department.

    i don't think there is an easy way to get into 4x without the trial and error, you could start with something like sins of a solar empire which is imo hybrid rts/4x or C&C in space with a tech tree.

  17. #17
    What is a 4x genre?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    What is a 4x genre?
    eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate
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  19. #19
    The Total War series are quite simplistic... especially the latest Rome: Total War 2. Shogun 2 and Medieval 2 and Rome 1 are slightly more complex, but still easy to get into.

    Start with those?
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  20. #20
    Mechagnome
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    Sins of a Solar Empire Rebellion is fantastic.

    I recently got both a Star Wars mod and a Star Trek Mod. Both mods make the game extremely enjoyable again

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