1. #25921
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You don't need high HP to eat pokes, you need moderate health, armor or MR to mitigate incoming damage (or defensive CD, like Barrier, or golden aegis, or Mao ult, rivens shield) and health regen. If you won't recover poked health, you will end up being on same health as anyone else (i.e. losing Belt advantage) and only base damage to deal damage.
    Personally, (on tanky bruisers) i prefer building aegis + upgraded boots first to get more versatility (i can sustain damage due to higher armor+MRes+regen and avoid ganks with increased movement speed). Building warmog as first item is very expensive, and you will be easy target to kill (due to lane phase, mid laner and jungler can easily dive into you tower and rape you)

    And to get get twice amount of health on line you need to have at least 2 belts -.-
    Winning lane and building more tanky IS a way to win games, but i want to point out that building straight health as first items (especially if your mid lane was lost) not always worth it, since you will be probably ganked several times or zoned out of lane.

    And from personal experience, you don't want to rush one stat (as bruiser), you need to rise all your stats to dominate lane early (like getting Armor+5 pots on top against riven and then rushing armor boots), and building straight health is not a instant win option
    Warmogs = Best HP and regen item... that's what i was talking about. It's the best item against poke if you only consider one single item.

    Additionally most bruisers deal more damage by going HP first because the additional damage they would do with with damage items is completely negated by the fact that they can stay in the fight longer. There is a reason why Hp stacking works so well and became so popular.

    I've got a real problem with your logic how the best overall defensive item makes you EASIER to kill and dive than not having one at all. Obviously having more hp wont automatically win you the lane but denying the enemy the ability to all in you while you still can all in him, gives you a really strong advantage in lane.

    But in the end we will just have to agree that we disagree

  2. #25922
    Herald of the Titans Zelgius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    YAY Lu Bu J4 is finally here immediatly logged in, got it and got my J4 on.

    SUCH a cool skin, love how his ulti looks, just a shame I only remember when I started playing, I'm actually pretty terrible at J4 FAR to much "helping" and nowhere near enough killing...

    anyone got a decent J4 build
    Quote Originally Posted by Rampant Rabbit View Post
    Something like: Trinity Force, Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, GA, Warmogs
    Pretty much what Rampant Rabbit said, rush a giant's belt or something, start with either bead +6 pots and a ward or flask + pot + ward.
    Get a brutalizer early, then make your t-force, finish cleaver, then finish your warmogs or go for the last whisper. Add in GA or Locket/Bulwark to the mix and you'll be a carry-demolishing machine.
    Skills: Q>E>Q>E>Q>R>Q>W>Q>E>R>E>E>W>W>R>W>W. You don't need W early because it's too mana intensive.
    Runes: I'd go 9x Arpen Mark and 3x AD quint, seal and glyph should be obvious.
    Masteries: 9/21/0, you don't need 21 in offense, since the build allows you to decimate enemy carries in mere seconds.

    ~Advice from a Gold I 100% J4 winrate player. Don't disregard bruh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durmindo View Post
    I dont own Him i would suggest mobafire And lolking guides, i dont like solomid it just sems such a mess
    Don't you dare mention that abomination here, mobafire builds are written by people who usually don't even have a clue of the game, don't even try those builds lol. Lolpro/Solomid ftw.
    ~ "Crying is a luxury I cannot afford." ~

  3. #25923
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    Warmogs = Best HP and regen item... that's what i was talking about. It's the best item against poke if you only consider one single item.

    Additionally most bruisers deal more damage by going HP first because the additional damage they would do with with damage items is completely negated by the fact that they can stay in the fight longer. There is a reason why Hp stacking works so well and became so popular.

    I've got a real problem with your logic how the best overall defensive item makes you EASIER to kill and dive than not having one at all. Obviously having more hp wont automatically win you the lane but denying the enemy the ability to all in you while you still can all in him, gives you a really strong advantage in lane.

    But in the end we will just have to agree that we disagree
    I didn't said that best overall item makes you easier to kill, I said that getting HP item (like belt) can be easily countered buy poking you in the face with range skills, or pulling creeps on you. Not all top lane duels starts at 100% vs 100% health, usually you want to weaken your enemy and force your creeps to hit him (like when you have 6 ranged creeps and he has last one melee, if he is still in range on creep attack, you can stun/slow him so he will eat damage from them).

    IMO the best item against poke is a Banshee =)
    And Omen brings much more utility into a fight than Warmogs
    I mean extra HP can be negated by long-range poke and bringing ONLY HP is a bad thing to do, while bringing less HP but mixed with armor/MR (depending on threat) is good, but even with armor/MR you need means to recover your lost health (lifesteal, regen, abilities, potions).
    I tried building Rene into sunfire and it was horrible, i did zero damage on line, i had 400 more health and ton of armor on line, but enemy irelia hit me twice as hard and i couldn't even deal damage to her due to healing from her lifesteal. But if i fight on top and mine enemy builds warmog, usually it won't end good for him since i still be able to crush through it with hit-and-run tactic.

    Maybe i think like this because of that horrible olaf with 7/0/0 at 15 minute and boot+phage+warmog who owned our J4 on top and then went bot to kill us but gave me +500 shutdown and proceed to try to kill me under tower resulting 4 more kills and almost free Big Fucking Sword
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2013-02-10 at 02:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  4. #25924
    Banshee is not great vs poke, it's not bad either though. It shines vs initiation (like those binds people fish all day long, or perhaps wild mumu/malphite ult). Extremely good on kiters to build on. (for example Ashe with that thing will just slow bruiser who will not get his secondary effect from gap closer and walk away, for example Xin Zhao charging it will not get his slow off, and between furor boots, frost arrows and PD/SS there is nothing to keep him in range anymore).
    Sunfire is OP as hell, no other item gives so much damage on it's own, but it has some limits.

    I don't personally know how good randuins is, because ... well it's a bit weird item at the moment, gives some edge over AD carry, but it's no longer that old item which had killer AS reduction, it's more like just slow/hp/armor item now. But warden's mail, the thing you build it from is extremely good item in lane vs autoattackers. Unlike tabis it also affect on-hit guys like Irelia.

    When talking about poke, I think the best item against it is bulwark.
    Last edited by AFK-Champion; 2013-02-10 at 02:48 PM.

  5. #25925
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    cool, thanks for all the builds, I'll be trying them out momentarily...

    time to ddduuunnnkkk!
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  6. #25926
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I didn't said that best overall item makes you easier to kill, I said that getting HP item (like belt) can be easily countered buy poking you in the face with range skills, or pulling creeps on you. Not all top lane duels starts at 100% vs 100% health, usually you want to weaken your enemy and force your creeps to hit him (like when you have 6 ranged creeps and he has last one melee, if he is still in range on creep attack, you can stun/slow him so he will eat damage from them).

    IMO the best item against poke is a Banshee =)
    And Omen brings much more utility into a fight than Warmogs
    I mean extra HP can be negated by long-range poke and bringing ONLY HP is a bad thing to do, while bringing less HP but mixed with armor/MR (depending on threat) is good, but even with armor/MR you need means to recover your lost health (lifesteal, regen, abilities, potions).
    I tried building Rene into sunfire and it was horrible, i did zero damage on line, i had 400 more health and ton of armor on line, but enemy irelia hit me twice as hard and i couldn't even deal damage to her due to healing from her lifesteal. But if i fight on top and mine enemy builds warmog, usually it won't end good for him since i still be able to crush through it with hit-and-run tactic.
    Banshee is a terrible item against constant poke actually. You would need to not be hit for 25 seconds to get the shield back. It's more of an item to counter champions who have one ability that will mess you up if they land it. Warmogs at least provides regen to sustain some of the damage.

  7. #25927
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Yes. Since they made Armor and MR more expensive and health cheaper, rushing Giant's Belt into a Warmog's later is the new form of snowballing a lane.
    This. Most champs add a Brutalizer into the equation right after the Giant's Belt. This makes for a very solid, but rather cheap early-mid build.

  8. #25928
    It's an interesting feeling when you get so fed as Poppy that your ult is more for just ignoring CC rather than damage. Triforce/Gunblade/Shurelya's/GA with a score of 19/2/9. Didn't even use my ult sometimes because I was chasing Kat and Graves away from their entire team in a 1v2 situation and neither wanted to stop running. Was more like let the one I catch die so the other can get away.

    Oh Poppy, you so unfair to the enemy sometimes. Too bad it's hard to lane as Poppy and she has no wave clear for mass farming. Apparently Riot doesn't want to try to make Poppy viable for competitive play because of how oppressive she can be. I guess that makes sense considering she can win games all by herself if she gets items. They cant really mess with her ult or passive without ruining who Poppy is like how you cant change Shen's ult.

  9. #25929
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    It's an interesting feeling when you get so fed as Poppy that your ult is more for just ignoring CC rather than damage. Triforce/Gunblade/Shurelya's/GA with a score of 19/2/9. Didn't even use my ult sometimes because I was chasing Kat and Graves away from their entire team in a 1v2 situation and neither wanted to stop running. Was more like let the one I catch die so the other can get away.

    Oh Poppy, you so unfair to the enemy sometimes. Too bad it's hard to lane as Poppy and she has no wave clear for mass farming. Apparently Riot doesn't want to try to make Poppy viable for competitive play because of how oppressive she can be. I guess that makes sense considering she can win games all by herself if she gets items. They cant really mess with her ult or passive without ruining who Poppy is like how you cant change Shen's ult.
    It's not just Poppy, quite a bit of champions are still not viable in competitive play due to being nerfed because their kits are toxic to pub games (i.e. Heimerdinger, all the melee carries, not counting AP Yi because that's something different), they can't deal enough damage in teamfights overall or survive massive burst damage (i.e. LeBlanc, Brand, Annie, Veigar), their kits are completely outclassed by others (Viktor, Volibear borderline because while GG did pick him, he wasn't able to bring much to their team, Sejuani) or the kits were not designed to fit with the current meta. (Karma)
    Last edited by Thallidomaniac; 2013-02-11 at 06:46 AM.

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  10. #25930
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Bah, i use Poppys ult on enemy ADC and ram into his face, ignite him, shoot from gunblade and crush his skull with hammer. 40% damage increase on ignite is too good to skip. It is almost 1.3k damage burst over 2 seconds without smashing him into a wall
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #25931
    So the lunar skins happened. I wanted the Xin one, but didnt have him, so i decided to get him. Since i have tops i like already, i decided to put him in the jungle. Now im sitting here wondering why i never tried it before. Its so easy to carry a game with Xin, especially from the jungle. Gank a few times, get your damage and tankiness items, then proceed to own. Lategame warmogs -> immortal.

    Suddenly the jungle is incredibly fun to be in 0.o

  12. #25932
    Pedo is a bit like Singed in utility, but capable of jungling. Since somebody did it, people will try it too and find that it's not all that bad.

  13. #25933
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    when is Quinn coming out on the pbe ffs Riot plz

  14. #25934
    What do you guys build on Elise top? I know Mrp is good on her and some tankyness.

    I'm going most of the time Sorc Shoes>Liandrys>Iceborn Gauntlet(Procs of her 6 abilities and the 10% on Liandrys),Warmogs, and a Giants belt in the middle of the itens. what else after this?

    I tried some guides like lolpro and solomid but i find they build her kind glass cannon
    Last edited by Durmindo; 2013-02-11 at 01:54 PM.

  15. #25935
    Quote Originally Posted by Durmindo View Post
    What do you guys build on Elise top? I know Mrp is good on her and some tankyness.

    I'm going most of the time Sorc Shoes>Liandrys>Iceborn Gauntlet(Procs of her 6 abilities and the 10% on Liandrys),Warmogs, and a Giants belt in the middle of the itens. what else after this?

    I tried some guides like lolpro and solomid but i find they build her kind glass cannon
    Abyssal Scepter, Liandry's and Rylai's are pretty much core on her afaik.

    You'll want as much MPen combined with beefiness towards mid game. Haunting Guise is a recommended first buy. After that I would get a Giant's Belt and build that into Rylai's. Build Sorc Shoes whenever.

  16. #25936
    Quote Originally Posted by Durmindo View Post
    What do you guys build on Elise top? I know Mrp is good on her and some tankyness.

    I'm going most of the time Sorc Shoes>Liandrys>Iceborn Gauntlet(Procs of her 6 abilities and the 10% on Liandrys),Warmogs, and a Giants belt in the middle of the itens. what else after this?

    I tried some guides like lolpro and solomid but i find they build her kind glass cannon
    I usually go haunting guise into sunfire cape on her top lane, atleast get a giants belts after your haunting guise. Then you can finish off with abyssal,liandrys rylais and warmogs. Sorc shoes are great but you might need tabis vs some lanes and mercs vs some teams. Frozen heart is also pretty good late game if you have a free spot.

  17. #25937
    Sunfire, Frozen Heart, Hourglass, etc are other options... it really depends on who you are against and what your team needs. Sorc boots and Haunting Guise are the items you should buy all the time.

  18. #25938
    Thanks for the fast response guys i'll check it after watching The walking dead.

  19. #25939
    The Patient Priestlie's Avatar
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    Don't really know where to post this but much laughs where had and I think some of you might enjoy this little story.

    So I was going top as Renekton in normal, it was my first time playing him (picked him up before that). And lo and behold it's Teemo I'm facing. I proceeded with stomping his face in the whole game. Got first blood etc etc. I took his tower down when I already picked up 4 kills. Now here comes the fun part. I went roaming after taking the down the tower and kept on ganking and stealing buffs/creeps from the enemy jungler.

    And what is this? Teemo farming all alone in top? Great! Let's kill him! I screwed up somewhere by showing myself to early resulting Teemo running into a bush. Now I did not know if he was still there so I used Renekton E (Dash) to get into the bush. I see nothing... Meh. But what is this? Dash procced. I hit something. Turns out Teemo never ran away he stealthed in that bush and I hit him with Dash. I started the AOE and eventually ''You have killed an enemy'' pops up. So so satisfying. My whole team cracked up on this. One of the funnest and best games I've had recently.

    So yeah. Killing Teemo. Loving it!

    Also I think i've fallen in love with Renekton such a fun champion.

  20. #25940
    Omg so much win. I would love to kill a teemo while he was stealthed. So annoying that bastard

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