The League of Legends thread

[Riboe]

Disagree. If an ELO hell exists, it must be able to trap all kinds of players regardless of skill. Given that there exists players able to carry themselves out of any low rank, ELO hell does not exist.

Just jumping in here... I agree that there's no Elo hell, but I don't agree with your reasoning.

There's alway gonna be edge-cases. Professional players are such edge-cases and therefore they aren't a deciding factor, when it comes to the existence of Elo hell.

Actually, the best argument against Elo hell, I've heard, comes from Riot's very own Phreak.
I can't find his post, but his point was, that if Elo hell is where you always lose, then someone else is winning all the time, which then means there's no Elo hell.

[Kaelwryn]

I'm unranked with like 1000 games played.
Yet people somehow still take me seriously on occasion.
What does this tell you.

Clearly that you're with the "in" crowd and that this is all a giant conspiracy against Firebert and his ideas! I mean, it couldn't possibly be that the reason why people tell him he's wrong is because he's actually wrong! nope.

[BloodyAngel12]

I never call it elo hell i call it elo purgatory.

Purgatory the state or place of purification or temporary punishment.

Its a state of limbo or more akin to being near the event horizon of a black hole, its hard to break free of it.

[Riboe]

I do that sometimes. It's mostly based on factors in the game though, not just because I want ALL the blues. Mid losing lane bad/feeding? No blue. Am I really behind? I would love to give away blue but I need at least one extra to catch up. Am I really fed? Best keep blue to try and carry. Blue reliant while mid is TF or some other self-sustaining champ? I'll take 3rd blue if he doesn't seem to need it.

(Nearly) All of those reasons are fair enough. I don't mind giving away blue, if my jungler really needs it.

The only one I don't agree with, is if you're really fed. Then you need it even less than your mid laner and it'll probably be a better choice to help him snowball, rather than only having you to try to carry.

[bobsmith06]

I'm unranked with like 1000 games played.
Yet people somehow still take me seriously on occasion.
What does this tell you.

no one takes you serious silly

[Boomcats]

The buffs provide a ton of exp compared to regular camps, so I see some junglers taking blue the 2nd time now if red gets stolen or they fall behind due to failed ganks.

I don't really like it if I'm the mid, but I understand. It just really is a huge disadvantage if the opposing laner can buy AP instead of M regen because he/she gets blue and I don't.

One trend that seems to be going on in EVERY game is the battling over red. Have you guys experienced it? I play support a ton, so I try to ward my red, but it seems every game one team has a jungler that invades the other's red. It's just a battle of map awareness and who responds to the million of pings.

[NotValidAnymore]

I like getting Athene's when I'm mid, so my jungler can take blue for himself.

Junglers have it pretty tough.

[Deleted]

i play a lot of jungle and started maining it some months ago, and i would say the jungler decides wether the mid gets blue or not.

i always have this rule.

If your mid is doing bad and dying often, keep the blue for yourself and use it to gank the lane + other lanes, since if he gets it he will prob still die and give it to the enemie mid...
If your mid is doing great, take the blue and use it to gank other lanes, he doesn't need it atm
If your mid is even or the lane is stale, give it to him to give him an advantage


i have played many games where the mid had 2 or 3 kills in the first 8 min and raged on me for not giving him the second blue, because apparently it has become a thing that thejungler is only allowed to get the first buffs, else they belong to mid / adc and the jungler has nothing to say about it

[Firebert]

I'm unranked with like 1000 games played.
Yet people somehow still take me seriously on occasion.
What does this tell you.

You should play ranked. :3

EDIT: Seriously, though, you will have an effective ELO above mine. I'm not going to drop into the argument that, because I've played more ranked games than you, I know more than you, because that's clearly fallacious when I pose it but not when anyone else does. :3

[Deleted]

The only time I would give blue to my mid is if:

1. He isn't feeding
2. He isn't an idiot
3. I think he's probably going to use it for something other than pushing the lane, getting ganked and dying
4. He's playing a champion who needs it
5. None of their players are around to contest it
6. Most important one - THEY ACTUALLY COME TO GET IT AT THE RIGHT TIME

Riot is always trying to find ways to increase jungler income without influencing lane balance. The best way to do it would probably to give the jungler 200g every time your mid ignores your pings for blue, says "just let me back first" or instead decides to take your bloody wraiths. Possibly add some extra gold every time they complain about not having blue. In fact, the only thing I regularly see afking for is junglers refusing to give mid blue buff.

tl;dr I'm taking every blue

[Firebert]

Clearly that you're with the "in" crowd and that this is all a giant conspiracy against Firebert and his ideas! I mean, it couldn't possibly be that the reason why people tell him he's wrong is because he's actually wrong! nope.

Feel free to go back through the thread and check out how much heat I get for posting, whilst remaining calm and logical in my own counterarguments that undercut the former arguments easily. I think I've broken into a personal attack once and even that was tenuous.

Also, nice that you'd rather underhandedly attack me personally than continue a conversation. Always nice to see.

[Deleted]

Insta-bought bear cavalry Sejuani, finally a worthy skin for one of my favourite junglers <3 Also, I fucking love the recall animation.

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whilst remaining calm and logical in my own counterarguments that undercut the former arguments easily

I have never seen that happen ever since I started following this subforum :P

[Deleted]

Feel free to go back through the thread and check out how much heat I get for posting, whilst remaining calm and logical in my own counterarguments that undercut the former arguments easily.

Huh? Discussions and debates are heated regardless of how you perform them. No one flamed you to the point of it being actually bad that needs infraction and I honestly don't understand why you feel hurt, or wtv, and think that you actually won the discussion about clarity.

Also, nice that you'd rather underhandedly attack me personally than continue a conversation. Always nice to see.

He's not attacking you. He's making a remark about you getting all unnecessarily heated up when people point out your mistakes, like the recent clarity discussion, and then you proceed to think everyone hates you and that you're not allowed to post or be here as you've said several times now, including on the last page.

[Deleted]

i never take blue as jungler unless im a deep trouble

You don't jungle often enough to know our suffering

[Kaelwryn]

Feel free to go back through the thread and check out how much heat I get for posting, whilst remaining calm and logical in my own counterarguments that undercut the former arguments easily. I think I've broken into a personal attack once and even that was tenuous.

Also, nice that you'd rather underhandedly attack me personally than continue a conversation. Always nice to see.

Honestly, I don't bother reading any argument that is with you. It is ultimately very tedious to read the posts because they go nowhere. Part of having a discussion is about being open minded and willing to accept that you might just be wrong. Neither side is willing to give an inch. So it makes for lack-luster reading.

And yeah I'm attacking you. Totally 100% attacking you. /sarcasm


And what Majad said. I was going to write a huge post continuing on with the line of thought but no. Basically just what Majad said.

[Firebert]

Everyone is allowed to discuss in here and come up with new ideas.

I understand that everyone's allowed their opinion. I've seen people on the wrong end of it when I was playing DW Blood and giving feedback on the DK forums.

What I don't understand is when the conversation turns into an argument with evidence on both sides (there is no right or wrong), everyone jumps on me. Reported infractionable but uninfracted material aside, this makes the thread incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders, so you can understand why the same few people post and the thread effectively becomes just for a clique of people.

I cut your second sentence because it contains a premise that presupposes the conclusion, and isn't worth the text.

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Honestly, I don't bother reading any argument that is with you. It is ultimately very tedious to read the posts because they go nowhere. Part of having a discussion is about being open minded and willing to accept that you might just be wrong. Neither side is willing to give an inch. So it makes for lack-luster reading.

Fair enough. I'm glad you kept it balanced at least.

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Huh? Discussions and debates are heated regardless of how you perform them.

Disagree.

I honestly don't understand why you feel hurt, or wtv, and think that you actually won the discussion about clarity.

When was the last time a thread jumped on you for producing coherent arguments?

He's not attacking you.

The implication (or my inference) that I'm some kind of frightened tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist is an attack.

[Deleted]

You should play ranked. :3

>Playing shit gamemode of shit game.

this makes the thread incredibly unwelcoming to people who are consistently and unchangeably incorrect

I feel that my corrections to the preceding quote are more indicative of the truth in this situation.

[Firebert]

For the jungle discussion, as I main Warwick I always take Blue myself because it means more ganks, unless someone else calls for it.

I feel I'm an incredibly flexible player as far as team cohesion goes.

[Kaelwryn]

The implication (or my inference) that I'm some kind of frightened tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist is an attack.

Is calling someone silly an attack? Hm, I'll have to remember that next time. Because, to me, being a conspiracy theorist is a very silly person.

[Duilliath]

What I don't understand is when the conversation turns into an argument with evidence on both sides (there is no right or wrong), everyone jumps on me.

1) People are not jumping on you. They are jumping on your false premise to prevent false information being spread.

2) Because you think they are jumping on you, you become real defensive, brushing aside arguments.

3) You have presented no convincing evidence, despite you thinking such.

There's an opportunity cost to Clarity, which makes it a bad summoner spell: it comes in place of Ignite or Exhaust.

That is its sole, monumental, flaw. It is so far outclassed by those two spells that you are severely hampering your team (which is your main role as Support or AP carry) by taking it.

You have said above that Exhaust is a better spell (if I didn't misread, I did skim over some of the posts). That single line means that Clarity is a bad pick.