1. #34401
    A champion shouldn't be forced away from a spot just because of what they were originally intended for. If it was to be that way then they would have reworked Zyra.

    Also the new Necklace is a bad jungle item when you consider how good the spirit items are for the junglers and that it will no longer be efficient.

  2. #34402
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Since when was taking poke supposed to be fun? It already has the downside of doing less damage than those abilities and having a longer CD and a short range. If you're seriously being beat down by Rengar's E then you're doing something wrong.
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+ 70% Bonus AD)
    COOLDOWN: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11

    plus the ability to jump out of bush and deal extra damage with doubleQ. This leads to:
    Rengar uses bola strike until you are at ~70% health. He walks in a bush at 4 combo points. Uses his Q. Jumps out of bush. Attacks. Uses Q again. Attacks. Ignite.
    It is not fun to play against because you can't really deny him from doing that. There is no downside of spamming bola strike on enemy (And 12 seconds is not a long cooldown for free damage dealing ranged spell) and this is stupid and should be changed. And there is no reason to save bola strike, you just spam it to get ferocity stacks. No mater if the target is a creep or a hero.

    Compare it to a parrrley
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 100% AD)
    EXTRA GOLD: 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8
    COOLDOWN: 5
    COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 MANA

    If you don't build mana items on GP it will drain all your mana after 6 shots which you can spend on getting extra gold (or farm safely if you are contested) or to harass enemy. But point is, you have to chose what you are going to do: harass enemy, get farm or save mana for CC remover.

    Spear shot:
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 65 / 105 / 145 / 185 / 225 (+ 140% Bonus AD)
    COOLDOWN: 4
    COST: 45 MANA

    And again, without mana items he won't be able to spam it and will run out of mana after 6 shots. You have to save your mana to deal stun+heartseaker combo AND have enough mana to finish enemy off with crit spear when he flashes away from you. This greatly reduces Pantheons' desire to spam spears on enemy.

    If riots wants rengar to be back into a jungle then it should affect creeps because getting this skill on level to to early gank will gimp your ability to clear jungle if you fail a gank (imagine you get level 2, get to a lane, kill nothing and you get deleveled back to 1. That's how it feels when you level a skill that deals no damage to creeps as a jungler)

    If they want him to be less annoying when played as a top character, it's a good move and will lead to more "smart" plays as rengar. You now need to think when to use your only CC spell to get your enemy and when to chain it to get a double Q strikes.
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  3. #34403
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    A champion shouldn't be forced away from a spot just because of what they were originally intended for. If it was to be that way then they would have reworked Zyra.

    Also the new Necklace is a bad jungle item when you consider how good the spirit items are for the junglers and that it will no longer be efficient.
    I don't expect Poppy to be in the same form when they rework her. It's just that her tool has so much broken things that they can't leave it as it is. It could also be said that Karma lost her old strengths and didn't get new ones for compensation, even with her use in the LCS, both successfully and unsuccessfully.

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  4. #34404
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+ 70% Bonus AD)
    COOLDOWN: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11

    plus the ability to jump out of bush and deal extra damage with doubleQ. This leads to:
    Rengar uses bola strike until you are at ~70% health. He walks in a bush at 4 combo points. Uses his Q. Jumps out of bush. Attacks. Uses Q again. Attacks. Ignite.
    It is not fun to play against because you can't really deny him from doing that. There is no downside of spamming bola strike on enemy (And 12 seconds is not a long cooldown for free damage dealing ranged spell) and this is stupid and should be changed. And there is no reason to save bola strike, you just spam it to get ferocity stacks. No mater if the target is a creep or a hero.

    Compare it to a parrrley
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 100% AD)
    EXTRA GOLD: 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8
    COOLDOWN: 5
    COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 MANA

    If you don't build mana items on GP it will drain all your mana after 6 shots which you can spend on getting extra gold (or farm safely if you are contested) or to harass enemy. But point is, you have to chose what you are going to do: harass enemy, get farm or save mana for CC remover.

    Spear shot:
    PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 65 / 105 / 145 / 185 / 225 (+ 140% Bonus AD)
    COOLDOWN: 4
    COST: 45 MANA

    And again, without mana items he won't be able to spam it and will run out of mana after 6 shots. You have to save your mana to deal stun+heartseaker combo AND have enough mana to finish enemy off with crit spear when he flashes away from you. This greatly reduces Pantheons' desire to spam spears on enemy.

    If riots wants rengar to be back into a jungle then it should affect creeps because getting this skill on level to to early gank will gimp your ability to clear jungle if you fail a gank (imagine you get level 2, get to a lane, kill nothing and you get deleveled back to 1. That's how it feels when you level a skill that deals no damage to creeps as a jungler)

    If they want him to be less annoying when played as a top character, it's a good move and will lead to more "smart" plays as rengar. You now need to think when to use your only CC spell to get your enemy and when to chain it to get a double Q strikes.
    You're comparing apples to oranges. Manaless champions are taxed by either having longer CDs or less damage on abilities, not by making the ability impossible to land on people who hide in their creeps. Katarina's bouncing blades have been around forever, but I don't see anybody complaining that it's impossible to deal with.

  5. #34405
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    Working at Riot looks like it would be fun..

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  6. #34406
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    It might have been unintended, but it does not mean it should have been removed. If a good thing happens by accident why not just leave it be?

    I know there's too little information to judge right now, but they better work wonders with his ultimate.
    Riven wall jumping is a good example of this. I'm not sure if leaving triple Q on Rengar would be good with the way it sounds like he'll be played post-rework, though, as it wouldn't really do as much as it does now.

  7. #34407
    the official tournaments are a treat to watch!

  8. #34408
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    A champion shouldn't be forced away from a spot just because of what they were originally intended for. If it was to be that way then they would have reworked Zyra.

    Also the new Necklace is a bad jungle item when you consider how good the spirit items are for the junglers and that it will no longer be efficient.
    According to Scarizard, the Necklace will have its own version of the 20% damage to monsters which stacks with the normal one.

  9. #34409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    You're comparing apples to oranges. Manaless champions are taxed by either having longer CDs or less damage on abilities, not by making the ability impossible to land on people who hide in their creeps. Katarina's bouncing blades have been around forever, but I don't see anybody complaining that it's impossible to deal with.
    Good point but katarina has no resource at all while rengar has ferocity and he gains his resourse by spamming bola strike. Also, scale on bouncing blades hit is not that good (0.5 AP iirc) and has lower base damage than bola strike. And it decreases damage dealt by each jump. So often you don't even take full damage from it (bounced like 2 times and she didn't used mark to damage you).
    Another thing about bouncing blade is that it pushes line forward (which is bad if you play top), while rengar pays nothing for spamming bola strike at all.
    That's my point, there is should be something about free damage ranged targetable CC skill that restrains you from using it on CD or just overusing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
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  10. #34410
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    Especially if they follow up by making it give vision, so you can jump over walls to jungle mobs.

  11. #34411
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    I just have to win 2 out of the next 4 ranked games for gold... no pressure, /panics
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  12. #34412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    I just have to win 2 out of the next 4 ranked games for gold... no pressure, /panics
    I've got to gold promotions but got threw away by trolls like "no items start fiddle mid", "0/5/0 bot premade ragequit", "solo top AP shaco", "jungle corki", "tripple AP mid", "diamond smurf mid" and such. Got threw to silver 2 by the way. Today sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #34413
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I've got to gold promotions but got threw away by trolls like "no items start fiddle mid", "0/5/0 bot premade ragequit", "solo top AP shaco", "jungle corki", "tripple AP mid", "diamond smurf mid" and such. Got threw to silver 2 by the way. Today sucks.
    Yeeah, I'm a little worried, but I guess no point really worrying about it. Just gonna try and take it easy when I've got time to play the 4 matches and if it happens it happens. I get really nervous when I'm on promo and I usually play worse because of it so I need to learn how to keep calm and not panic.
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  14. #34414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    Yeeah, I'm a little worried, but I guess no point really worrying about it. Just gonna try and take it easy when I've got time to play the 4 matches and if it happens it happens. I get really nervous when I'm on promo and I usually play worse because of it so I need to learn how to keep calm and not panic.
    play outside of peak hours. Thats where i encounter the least trolls and other toxic players.
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  15. #34415
    Why does three talon strike on xin do so much dmg?

    lvl 1 xin = 300 dmg from it
    and it only goes up from there pretty fast since it scales 1.2 which is stupid.. should just be half of it
    you can take 2 offensive items on xin and go super tank with the last 3 which means you will be the one doing the dmg and be the tank that you're not supposed to focus

  16. #34416
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    Quote Originally Posted by agnow View Post
    Why does three talon strike on xin do so much dmg?

    lvl 1 xin = 300 dmg from it
    and it only goes up from there pretty fast since it scales 1.2 which is stupid.. should just be half of it
    you can take 2 offensive items on xin and go super tank with the last 3 which means you will be the one doing the dmg and be the tank that you're not supposed to focus
    His early game numbers are big because he has to snowball to be relevant late-game, due to his rather lackluster late-game scaling. And normally, you have to build the tank items on Xin first because his base numbers are good enough already, and going glass cannon means that you'll die in teamfights and blow the lead that you work so hard to build, assuming you do snowball.

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  17. #34417
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    His early game numbers are big because he has to snowball to be relevant late-game, due to his rather lackluster late-game scaling. And normally, you have to build the tank items on Xin first because his base numbers are good enough already, and going glass cannon means that you'll die in teamfights and blow the lead that you work so hard to build, assuming you do snowball.
    The thing is, your jungler just has to focus on getting you kills and win your lane if you play xin, which shouldn't be hard if you duo or communicate well with your jungler
    and he will become insanely strong because of it

    ofc you can do the same against him but it doesn't benefit you as much

  18. #34418
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    Quote Originally Posted by agnow View Post
    The thing is, your jungler just has to focus on getting you kills and win your lane if you play xin, which shouldn't be hard if you duo or communicate well with your jungler
    and he will become insanely strong because of it

    ofc you can do the same against him but it doesn't benefit you as much
    it'll benefit you even more so because if Xin falls behind, he falls behind insanely hard. He's unfortunately quite reliant on snowballing hard to stay relevant, if you haven't gotten a lead by >10minutes you'll fall behind.

  19. #34419
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agnow View Post
    Why does three talon strike on xin do so much dmg?

    lvl 1 xin = 300 dmg from it
    and it only goes up from there pretty fast since it scales 1.2 which is stupid.. should just be half of it
    you can take 2 offensive items on xin and go super tank with the last 3 which means you will be the one doing the dmg and be the tank that you're not supposed to focus
    He has to do 3 strikes to dish out300 damage. I can do 300 damage as level 3 Rene easily. And when i see three talon strike activated i just W him and E away laughing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #34420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    He has to do 3 strikes to dish out300 damage. I can do 300 damage as level 3 Rene easily. And when i see three talon strike activated i just W him and E away laughing.
    Could also just play J4. No fucks given and kills everything.

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