1. #40441
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    I hope so badly that you are trolling, because the amount of stupidty in this post is almost too much to take.

    I dont really have a problem with the Lee Sin changes if they go with their plan. Since their plan isnt to nerf him into the ground, its to make him less powerful early and more poweful late which honestly he needed. His amount of mobility needed to get nerfed because it was ridiculous. He could basically "flash" to you 2x in a row without even using flash. And tryin to kill him? gl since its just drop a ward ooh herp derp over the wall. Plus his killing power early was also very strong to go along with being incredibly mobile. So changing that to make him less of a shitter late if hes not fed I dont see the big deal.
    I was more annoyed by his ridiculous damage output from R>Q combo at any level, it's just way too high than it should be

  2. #40442
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Oh wow, I won't quote back all the people that answered to my GC post so I'll just make a broad post to cover all of it, makes it easier.

    First of all, GC has been at Riot for a very short time, how many reworks do you expect one person to do, specially considering how new to the company he was?

    Second, saying GC ruined World of Warcraft is both naive and ignorant. If anyone truly thinks this it's either because they heard it from someone else and never thought it through or they just have the "blame the man" mentality. If you did know WoW before GC came on board and have any sort of perception of reality and how such a big gaming company has to operate then you can't seriously blame one man for "ruining" WoW.

    (Not that I agree WoW was ruined, I think it just evolved but some people have a hard time handling nostalgia or just can't accept they're tired of the game/genre or that it just dosn't suit their tastes anymore)


  3. #40443
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    It just his "coincidence" joining anything = start of its fall, and u can say wow isn't "ruined" but no one will argue that wow was gaining more subs before he joined the team
    And yes one guy can ruin a lot depend on his position, actually it is usually a one guy fault when something big fall, wrong decision at wrong time
    And probably Lee Sin will be nerfed (to the ground baby!) and get thrown to dungeon now, Lee Sin may need it, but it was his most unique feature, nerf it what we got ? a roundhorue kick ulti with q to follow (since w now 100energy, forget it), or will he need blue now ?

  4. #40444
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Anything Ghostcrawler has worked on, if he even touches champion balance/design, wont be seen for a few months the latest. Everything we are seeing has been in development and balance talks for months now. Skarner rework started long before GC joined. Same with the rest of the reworks we have seen recently.

    These Lee Sin changes have been on the backburner for a while. Riot has been mentioning trying some changes for a while now that keep his fun, emergent gameplay, but reduce the frustration of playing against him. This is their current attempt. They might have gone too far with them, but that's why they released them to the community now and it will go through testing on the PBE. They might not listen (Skarner pls), but most of the time it's a great way to learn how a champion will perform on live servers.

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  5. #40445
    Heey. Is there any way to change the font? I've updated my graphic card's drivers recently and the font in LoL changed to more blurred (and smaller). My eyes don't like it, actually I can't play because of it.



    It's the same in-game (chat, items etc.)

    I've tried repair option but there was no change.

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  6. #40446
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    I hope so badly that you are trolling, because the amount of stupidty in this post is almost too much to take.

    I dont really have a problem with the Lee Sin changes if they go with their plan. Since their plan isnt to nerf him into the ground, its to make him less powerful early and more poweful late which honestly he needed. His amount of mobility needed to get nerfed because it was ridiculous. He could basically "flash" to you 2x in a row without even using flash. And tryin to kill him? gl since its just drop a ward ooh herp derp over the wall. Plus his killing power early was also very strong to go along with being incredibly mobile. So changing that to make him less of a shitter late if hes not fed I dont see the big deal.
    All of his abilities are getting straight nerfs. The only buff is to flurry, which is 100% useless unless somebody wants to duel. How does this make him better late game in any way? There is a lot of bias in your post and I am led to believe you garner hatred toward lee sin.

    There are a ton of complaints both on the forums and reddit about these lee changes, so if they arent reverted then color me surprised, and color me off to Smite. I refuse to go down with the ship that is WoW v.2
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2014-03-09 at 09:47 PM.

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  7. #40447
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    Anyone think Yasuo W will be nerfed soon ? He block any ranged, including all ultis (except Ziggs, for unknown reason)
    He already is way strong with his passive and ulti on any knockup (and he can Q in his ulti)

  8. #40448
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Anyone think Yasuo W will be nerfed soon ? He block any ranged, including all ultis (except Ziggs, for unknown reason)
    He already is way strong with his passive and ulti on any knockup (and he can Q in his ulti)
    I don't see it getting nerfed, no. It's got a long CD and only effects one, small area. Also, it does block Ziggs' ult if you time it right, but since it goes so far up in the air you can only do it at the very beginning or the very end.

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  9. #40449
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    All of his abilities are getting straight nerfs. The only buff is to flurry, which is 100% useless unless somebody wants to duel. How does this make him better late game in any way? There is a lot of bias in your post and I am led to believe you garner hatred toward lee sin.

    There are a ton of complaints both on the forums and reddit about these lee changes, so if they arent reverted then color me surprised, and color me off to Smite. I refuse to go down with the ship that is WoW v.2
    Bias? I dont really like or dislike Lee Sin. My only bias is for champions that I think are horrible and I groan whenever they are on my team, not ones I think are good. My basis of my opinion is based on what Riots goals were, and its why I said I dont have a problem with their plan. Which I would have a problem with if they said we think Lee is too good we are going to nerf him across the board, but no they wanted to make early Lee weaker and late Lee stronger. I see that as fair, and making it so his chain mobility moves isnt possible or at least comes with a price I also see as reasonable. Its easy for people to overreact to shit when they dont actually see it in action

  10. #40450
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Bias? I dont really like or dislike Lee Sin. My only bias is for champions that I think are horrible and I groan whenever they are on my team, not ones I think are good. My basis of my opinion is based on what Riots goals were, and its why I said I dont have a problem with their plan. Which I would have a problem with if they said we think Lee is too good we are going to nerf him across the board, but no they wanted to make early Lee weaker and late Lee stronger. I see that as fair, and making it so his chain mobility moves isnt possible or at least comes with a price I also see as reasonable. Its easy for people to overreact to shit when they dont actually see it in action
    The thing is. They nerfed his early game. Their late game "buff" will not do anything at all. Seriously, you won't get to use the attack speed at all late game. They straight up nerfed Lee Sin even though everyone agrees he's balanced.

    I don't expect these changes to go through.

  11. #40451
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    The thing is. They nerfed his early game. Their late game "buff" will not do anything at all. Seriously, you won't get to use the attack speed at all late game. They straight up nerfed Lee Sin even though everyone agrees he's balanced.

    I don't expect these changes to go through.
    Considering similar changes were made to Garen which did come to live, just gotta hold your breath and hope they don't happen. Then again, because Riot doesn't consider Garen to be an important champion to balance compared to Lee...

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  12. #40452
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    Why is Akali not considered strong right now? I mean, yeah, a pink ward stops her "defensive" ability, but that's a huge investment for something easily destroyed now. She has like 3 unfavorable matchups (one of which is Lee Sin who she outscales hilariously). The only thing I can think of is that she's an assassin without a true escape, but she can jump around like freaking mad.
    Want to follow this up by saying I spectated a friend's ARAM game today. He was like 14/10 as Akali and was the only one alive. There were 3 full health people and 1 half health for the other team. He blows up the half health, gets in his bubble, blows up the squishiest of the 3 left, gets in his bubble and runs into a brush. The Ezreal then jumps in at him and he blows the Ezreal up. Then he blows up the last one.

    He doesn't play Akali much (I haven't seen him play Akali at all, but he claims he is proficient at all champions except Lux). I get that it's ARAM, but 1v4 as a marginally fed Akali.

  13. #40453
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    The thing is. They nerfed his early game. Their late game "buff" will not do anything at all. Seriously, you won't get to use the attack speed at all late game. They straight up nerfed Lee Sin even though everyone agrees he's balanced.

    I don't expect these changes to go through.
    Exactly who agree he is balanced ?
    I don't see him a danger in offense but his escapability from most ganks is insane high, with easily 2 flash and cripple enemy attack and q beyond walls and kick away

  14. #40454
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Exactly who agree he is balanced ?
    I don't see him a danger in offense but his escapability from most ganks is insane high, with easily 2 flash and cripple enemy attack and q beyond walls and kick away
    His escapability is player dependent. Same goes for his damage. Played well, he is very difficult to stop, but played poorly and he is a god awful champion. You know who has excessive amounts of escapes? Ahri, Fizz, Zed, any ADC with a dash, Nidalee, Riven and more I'm sure. No one really complains about their ability to escape (except a few whining about Nidalee and Riven and the sheer hatred Fizz's pole gets)

  15. #40455
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    His escapability is player dependent. Same goes for his damage. Played well, he is very difficult to stop, but played poorly and he is a god awful champion. You know who has excessive amounts of escapes? Ahri, Fizz, Zed, any ADC with a dash, Nidalee, Riven and more I'm sure. No one really complains about their ability to escape (except a few whining about Nidalee and Riven and the sheer hatred Fizz's pole gets)
    What? those champs arent even remotely compareable. Ahris is a fricking ultimate for christs sake, shes not flying around the map all the time like Lee does, she can ult every 80 seconds or something. Fizz, Zed, and any ADC with dash cannot go back to back highly mobile moves like Lee, big difference. Nidalee is probably the closest in this example but even she cant do back to back its merely a very short CD. Nobody I see has a problem with Lee being able to Q or Lee being able to W. Its that he could W AND Q immediately after one another

  16. #40456
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    And don't forget that these champs (Fizz, Zed, Ahri etc) have to choose: they want to flee from enemies by using their skills, or do damage. If they used escapes as "flee" option, they do significantly less damage than they could

  17. #40457
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    What? those champs arent even remotely compareable. Ahris is a fricking ultimate for christs sake, shes not flying around the map all the time like Lee does, she can ult every 80 seconds or something. Fizz, Zed, and any ADC with dash cannot go back to back highly mobile moves like Lee, big difference. Nidalee is probably the closest in this example but even she cant do back to back its merely a very short CD. Nobody I see has a problem with Lee being able to Q or Lee being able to W. Its that he could W AND Q immediately after one another
    Lee has always been like that, but only recently have people started moaning so much about it(apparently). If having 2 dashes is such a crime, why is it okay for Fiora to be able to Q twice(if there are enemies), Yasuo to be able to E forever as long as he has targets, Kassadin to Flash every few seconds, Akali can dash 3 times+1 per kill, Irelia can dash as much as she wants as long as the dash kills the target, Jarvan can EQ and ult to dash twice in rapid succession, LeBlanc can dash twice AND dash back to each of the starting points, Vi can Q and ult for 2 dashes? Oh, right, because it's part of their kit and their identity. Lee has to spend gold(and possibly drop vision from old wards) to pull off lots of his stuff, otherwise it has a ~1.5 minute CD with the trinket.
    The way I see it, the only problem with Lee is his VERY early level burst(his level ~2-3 invades are brutal), his mobility is part of what makes him Lee. I don't mind the ulti change, because it achieves the goal that they're shooting for, making it a decision between utility and damage. The passive change is silly, it forces him into 1 style of build lategame.
    The W change is just dumb. The problem with the way they're planning to change it right now is that it REFUNDS energy if you dash to a non-ward. Great, I get 50 energy back from the 100 energy cost. That doesn't matter if you can't GET to 100 energy before dying. Make it have different costs for wards and non-wards(that should be possible, idk), or use the Thresh-Q solution that they've also mentioned, where it's not the cost but the cooldown that gets "refunded" if used in a certain way(in Thresh's case that way is actually hitting the Q)
    Riot should just focus on champions that are actually problems(or "toxic" as they like to call it) instead of trying to completely change champions that are pretty much as balanced as it gets. Lee Sin always being part of all metas is a good thing, his kit makes him work in lots of teamcomps. That's what Riot should try to make more champions like.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they're going to change him completely or keep him as the Lee Sin he is and has been for a long time.

  18. #40458
    Stood in the Fire Omnoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    Lee has always been like that, but only recently have people started moaning so much about it(apparently). If having 2 dashes is such a crime, why is it okay for Fiora to be able to Q twice(if there are enemies), Yasuo to be able to E forever as long as he has targets, Kassadin to Flash every few seconds, Akali can dash 3 times+1 per kill, Irelia can dash as much as she wants as long as the dash kills the target, Jarvan can EQ and ult to dash twice in rapid succession, LeBlanc can dash twice AND dash back to each of the starting points, Vi can Q and ult for 2 dashes? Oh, right, because it's part of their kit and their identity. Lee has to spend gold(and possibly drop vision from old wards) to pull off lots of his stuff, otherwise it has a ~1.5 minute CD with the trinket.
    The way I see it, the only problem with Lee is his VERY early level burst(his level ~2-3 invades are brutal), his mobility is part of what makes him Lee. I don't mind the ulti change, because it achieves the goal that they're shooting for, making it a decision between utility and damage. The passive change is silly, it forces him into 1 style of build lategame.
    The W change is just dumb. The problem with the way they're planning to change it right now is that it REFUNDS energy if you dash to a non-ward. Great, I get 50 energy back from the 100 energy cost. That doesn't matter if you can't GET to 100 energy before dying. Make it have different costs for wards and non-wards(that should be possible, idk), or use the Thresh-Q solution that they've also mentioned, where it's not the cost but the cooldown that gets "refunded" if used in a certain way(in Thresh's case that way is actually hitting the Q)
    Riot should just focus on champions that are actually problems(or "toxic" as they like to call it) instead of trying to completely change champions that are pretty much as balanced as it gets. Lee Sin always being part of all metas is a good thing, his kit makes him work in lots of teamcomps. That's what Riot should try to make more champions like.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they're going to change him completely or keep him as the Lee Sin he is and has been for a long time.
    Does Yasuo dash to Wards? Does fiora? We've got a single example and that's Katarina, and she can't LEAP IN then LEAP OUT in one go.

    Lee can simply go " HUZZAH" leap in, slap kick" HUZZAH, SO LONG" and leave again.

    Edit: Jax too, can leap towards a ward, but not leave again.
    Last edited by Omnoms; 2014-03-10 at 12:41 PM.
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  19. #40459
    Complaining about Lee Sin's mobility while ignoring the fact that Leblanc exists isn't making your argument look strong.

  20. #40460

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