The League of Legends thread

[Arterus]

By the time you do have those items, you could also have a 700 AP Brand/Annie and those are the characters that really melt faces in a team fight.

Also, most people SHOULD already know that AP Sorakas early laning phase is quite tough to counter for some champs. But that's what junglers, roamers or in general teammates are for. You can't tell me that you survive a 2v1 while enjoying the happy flames of ignite.

If you want to play a sustained AP caster, get Cass.

Yes, either of them could easily reach 700 AP with a full build. But that doesn't change the fact that after they blow their load their dps output drops. They also remain extremely squishy and easy to pick off if they are caught out of position for even a second.

Soraka can burst a single target almost as well. And she can do that while bringing ridiculous AoE damage and synergy to the team. Its not always about who has the largest burst.

Yes, as you said AP Soraka has a strong laning phase. In fact her silence poke shuts down nearly any AP champion mid. Just because you have a jungler doesn't mean they are going to be able to gank the lane. Good players know when to push the lane and not just huehuehue push the creep waves up to the opposite tower.
Combine that with the fact Soraka will never be at low hp in lane, wards, and CV. You have a seriously tough lane to gank.

Cass, sustained dps? She is one of the biggest bursting champions in the game. Just because she has a poison skill doesn't mean shes sustained dps.

I wonder are you just being silly or serious, Soraka got buffed on her dps yes, but to reach Nasus? No way, actually no hero can get to Nasus lvl if you leave them both farming as they want for 30min, Nasus must be punished from early game or 30min+ he will 2 shot half your team. (which isn't hard imo, he is very depending on Q farming)
If I remember right pre-nerf vlad was real pain due to his Q, now he is more balanced and maybe UP against skilled people or early harassers

Thats just the thing, when Nasus farms his Siphon Strike and buys his Trinity force and tank items you just can't focus him down. And you can't ignore him either. Which is what happens when Soraka reaches late game as well. Maybe she doesn't deal the 1,000 damage Qs that nasus puts out but she creates a massive problem for the opposing team.

They continuously nerfed Vladmir, yeah. Damage, life return, range, and cooldown. Hes not the pain to lane against that he used to be.

[Antueater]

But that's exactly the definition and role they should fulfill: Blow everything they have, recover, blow again. That's what burst AP is for.

And no, Soraka can't burst. She only has one ability which deals significant single target damage. Even Anivia, despite having "only" two direct damaging spells, eats away more HP in her combo as Soraka does. And if you think Soraka has ridiculous AoE damage, you never played Brand.

Sometimes, its just ALL about who has the largest burst. Take out the enemy carry in one combo? Sure, gimme that.

To the laning phase and gankability of Soraka mid being almost immortal: That's the theory. Yeah, GOOD players know how and when to push, ward themselves and avoid most of the times being ganked. But even the best players sometimes run out of wards or make mistakes. Even if you are playing near perfect, counter wards, Oracles or hardcore ganks (3+ or special cases of ultimate combos) will get you in a uncomfortable position, even if that's only delaying your build instead of fully killing you.

Cass isn't that bursty at all. She poisons, fires 3-4 E and then has to wait for her poisons to get up again. That might even be overall more damage than a Annie's Q + W combo, but also takes a lot of time more to execute (don't forget the changing positioning in that time)

[Arterus]

But that's exactly the definition and role they should fulfill: Blow everything they have, recover, blow again. That's what burst AP is for.

And no, Soraka can't burst. She only has one ability which deals significant single target damage. Even Anivia, despite having "only" two direct damaging spells, eats away more HP in her combo as Soraka does. And if you think Soraka has ridiculous AoE damage, you never played Brand.

Sometimes, its just ALL about who has the largest burst. Take out the enemy carry in one combo? Sure, gimme that.

To the laning phase and gankability of Soraka mid being almost immortal: That's the theory. Yeah, GOOD players know how and when to push, ward themselves and avoid most of the times being ganked. But even the best players sometimes run out of wards or make mistakes. Even if you are playing near perfect, counter wards, Oracles or hardcore ganks (3+ or special cases of ultimate combos) will get you in a uncomfortable position, even if that's only delaying your build instead of fully killing you.

Cass isn't that bursty at all. She poisons, fires 3-4 E and then has to wait for her poisons to get up again. That might even be overall more damage than a Annie's Q + W combo, but also takes a lot of time more to execute (don't forget the changing positioning in that time)

But, that's not exactly the way it always pans out. If it was all about burst damage Morgana would not be a top ban/pick in every game right now. The same was true for Orianna before her. If you can do two roles while performing one even remotely close to a champion like brand who can only do one thing, burst you have a more powerful champion.

This is the case with Soraka, and I can also gurantee to you that Soraka spamming Q,E will perform more damage over the span of the team fight. While she is by no means the definitive choice that should be picked, she can work and she can work well.

Yes, and if your jungler is spending that much effort just in an attempt to shut down their middle lane while neglecting their other lanes which are being counter ganked I would say that is a pretty potent champion pick right there.

True, her poison can deal good amounts of damage but her real killing potential comes from her E. Hitting someone for 400 damage every .5seconds with twin fang following a 600 damage ultimate she definitely has some of the best single target burst.

[Antueater]

Your Soraka will be eaten after laning phase ended. You are talking like every lasts minimum about 40 minutes, with you having almost the same stats as fighters while dealing phreaky TONS OF DAMAGE because no one is even trying to touch you. That's not exactly the way it pans out.

After the laning phase, you will hit like wet noodles with your silence and are target number one or two for most teams with your considerably small health and mitigation. Even if you are not being focussed, every human being with at least half of a brain will try to shut you down as soon as you begin to shred MR. Even if that's only walking out of range to lose the debuff.

I highly doubt you are on a regular base able to constantly shred Q without being disturbed in any kind of CC/Focus or whatever.

[Fiddlesnarf]

So I've actually been thinking of buying and playing (kill me now) ... Teemo. He is actually one of the best top laners, though falls off lategame, similar to Yorick in that regard.

[Arterus]

Your Soraka will be eaten after laning phase ended. You are talking like every lasts minimum about 40 minutes, with you having almost the same stats as fighters while dealing phreaky TONS OF DAMAGE because no one is even trying to touch you. That's not exactly the way it pans out.

After the laning phase, you will hit like wet noodles with your silence and are target number one or two for most teams with your considerably small health and mitigation. Even if you are not being focussed, every human being with at least half of a brain will try to shut you down as soon as you begin to shred MR. Even if that's only walking out of range to lose the debuff.

I highly doubt you are on a regular base able to constantly shred Q without being disturbed in any kind of CC/Focus or whatever.

Her damage doesn't just magically shoot up at 40 minutes. It scales well throughout the entire game. Regardless if the game ends in 30 or even 20 minutes Soraka should have won her lane and farmed a decent portion of her build. If you are drawing the attention of their fighter champions thats fine, there is no reason that after the laning phase you should be focused down before your team can make them pay for it.

You're forgetting the fact that you will leave the laning phase ahead of pretty much every lane. You will most likely have 2-300 AP and nothing you have will be hitting like a wet noodle.

Once again, Focusing the champion that will have close around 200 armor mid game that can heal itself for 1,000 hp is not going to work out well.

What is so hard about the concept of not being the one to initiate the teamfight. Unless you get caught and initiate the team fight there is almost no reason they will be on you. If they decide Soraka is a larger threat than whoever they had began focusing down before and switch her they are just going to get aced.

[Antueater]

I really would like to see a replay/video of your gameplay to maybe get a better understanding of the look and feel.

Until then, I'm not that convinced.

[Silent]

So I've actually been thinking of buying and playing (kill me now) ... Teemo. He is actually one of the best top laners, though falls off lategame, similar to Yorick in that regard.

Teemo is amazing but you have to build him tank-ish or he gets 1 shotted, allthough from the Yoricks ive seen by mid game if they get some kills they become some crazy bruisers late

---------- Post added 2011-10-12 at 03:18 PM ----------

Actually now i feel like trying out Skarnar!

[sam86]

Morgana works late game not for her dmg, but for incredible kiss your CC goodbye shield (how is she after nerf btw) and aoe stun mid-team fights with hourglass.
Teemo is for people cheap to buy wards, and an annoying poker, but I prefer top laner to be a tanky-dps type since he can farm ok alone and get gold for building late game.
Most good games reach late game, most bad games you don't have to think what to play with, they will screw up no matter what you do.

[Deleted]

I really would like to see a replay/video of your gameplay to maybe get a better understanding of the look and feel.

Until then, I'm not that convinced.

this so bad, even those soraka's that builted some defense, died then you gave them a hard look, yes your heal might heal for alot, but if you lvled that, either your silence or Q wont hit that hard. So a upload a lol-replay please so we can see either what noobs you are facing, or wheater you actually are very good

[Silent]

So i just had a game with Skarnar and got flamed to death by my team at lobbey we start and i go solo top ( Yorick jungling ) 10m go by and not one single gank - 15m and i notice that bottom lane is feedling like crazy and mid getting ganked every 2m from twitch + shaco

game ends at 22m ( team surrenders, if they had any brain cells and stayed with me instead off starting the fights without me we would win ) im the only person with a positive k/d/a ratio =/
but i realised that Skarner is a pretty sick tanky dps, pretty nice for stopping that crazy twitch from aoe'ing your team or yi roflstomping your carry. i was surprised that he did pretty okay dmg

[Fiddlesnarf]

How well did you do top lane with Skarner and who was your opponent?

[Puss]

So I've actually been thinking of buying and playing (kill me now) ... Teemo. He is actually one of the best top laners, though falls off lategame, similar to Yorick in that regard.

you pick teemo to go top i pick ryze to wreck you in lane gg.

[Deleted]

Yeah just quick rant.

Dominion. I say clearly ONE DOWN 4 TOP.
It should be obvious that 3 goes top and one does the first point.

But no. out of 15 lossses 10 atleast was lost because 2 people insisted on capping first point or bot meaning 2 gets steamrolled top and then the 2 who capped first point go soloing 4 v 1.
WHY OH WHY must you do this. Scores dont mean jack if we lose cos of it.

Other games its dc spree (dominion causes lot of dcs) or 2 people going afk so losing the game 100 - 0..

[Fiddlesnarf]

you pick teemo to go top i pick ryze to wreck you in lane gg.

What is this, a champion has a counter in lane? Unconceivable! *rolls eyes*

[Typhron]

What is this, a champion has a counter in lane? Unconceivable! *rolls eyes*

Reminds me of something I need to pull from my ass!


10 Cardinal rules of LoL
1) Playing an AD champion means you're the carry.
2) Being the carry means you're the main character and that you're not supposed to die, being an important badass and all. When you do it's just a formality and it's everyone else's fault you sustained such a setback.
3) Targeting the enemy tanks first is your way of showing how badass your are by killing them first.
4) The best way to initiate teamfights is to run and pick a fight with the weakest, least protected among the enemy. That means their support.
4a) Before switching to the tank.
5) Infact, teamfights are for bitchy-little babymen.
5a) Infact, teamwork for for bitchy-little babymen.
6) Building tanky items as a carry is bullshit and beneath you.
7) There's no such things as counters, the enemy team just picked an OP champion, otherwise you would've totally beat their ass in your lane
8) If another Carry beats you up, it's on.
8a) If a tower helped, it's the tower fault they won.
8b) If a enemy champ helped, you got double teamed and theirs no way they'd win 'fair and square', when you and another are 2+vs1ing.
8c) If alone, the enemy champion is obviously overpowered.
9) When you win, the person with the highest k/d ratio carried their team no matter what. Except when it's not you.
10) There's no wrong way to build. Infact, building snowball items is the most reliable way to win ever, bar none.

[Lysah]

How well did you do top lane with Skarner and who was your opponent?

Skarner can lane most anyone. If he is able to win the lane, he levels W and Q and zones his opponent (I've done this to Garen before, commonly considered one of the hardest anti-melee during the lane phase, so I'm sure I could handle more). W allows him to just tank his opponent's poke while he auto attacks them back, and his Q slows them so that when they realize they're losing and try to back off they lose several hundred more health before actually getting away.

Of course, he won't always win his lane, but he can always back off and level his E instead, which actually does provide a lot of healing if leveled early. You won't even have to sacrifice much, as the only point in levelling Q is for the increase to the slow, it's damage is fairly nonexistant until the very end of the game when you're item capped.

tl;dr
Skarner can lane pretty much anyone. Either he wins the lane or he farms and heals/tanks with E/W. He can, however, be pretty susceptible to ganks, as his only movement ability is a shield that can be broken and therefore removed in a single poke this early in the game.



One thing I wish I could impress on everyone - not every champion is the same strength at varying levels of the game. People will accept this about plenty of champions, and admit that some like Garen have a great early game but drop off later. Is it so hard to understand, then, that Skarner has a weak early game, but because an unstoppable force of death later? For the games I've played, 35 minutes is almost always around the exact time that the game turns around when I'm Skarner, if it looks like we're losing I start getting double and triple kills and they start getting aced. If we're even it becomes a slaughter, if we're already winning they're about to forfeit. Skarner absolutely needs his items. If he gets them he will be one of the toughest champions in the game, it's just a matter of getting there.

As I've said to several people, my main and only real criticism of Skarner is that he relies on blue throughout the entire game, which means that your AP carry can't use it. He can survive a team fight without blue, but he will be out of mana by the end of it, and will be out of mana half way through and watching people walk away if he only went in with half of his pool. I would almost consider early manamune as a build for this, but I'm not sure delaying TF by 2000g would ever end up working out in his favor.

[Deleted]

Skarner can lane most anyone. If he is able to win the lane, he levels W and Q and zones his opponent (I've done this to Garen before, commonly considered one of the hardest anti-melee during the lane phase, so I'm sure I could handle more). W allows him to just tank his opponent's poke while he auto attacks them back, and his Q slows them so that when they realize they're losing and try to back off they lose several hundred more health before actually getting away.

Of course, he won't always win his lane, but he can always back off and level his E instead, which actually does provide a lot of healing if leveled early. You won't even have to sacrifice much, as the only point in levelling Q is for the increase to the slow, it's damage is fairly nonexistant until the very end of the game when you're item capped.

tl;dr
Skarner can lane pretty much anyone. Either he wins the lane or he farms and heals/tanks with E/W. He can, however, be pretty susceptible to ganks, as his only movement ability is a shield that can be broken and therefore removed in a single poke this early in the game.



One thing I wish I could impress on everyone - not every champion is the same strength at varying levels of the game. People will accept this about plenty of champions, and admit that some like Garen have a great early game but drop off later. Is it so hard to understand, then, that Skarner has a weak early game, but because an unstoppable force of death later? For the games I've played, 35 minutes is almost always around the exact time that the game turns around when I'm Skarner, if it looks like we're losing I start getting double and triple kills and they start getting aced. If we're even it becomes a slaughter, if we're already winning they're about to forfeit. Skarner absolutely needs his items. If he gets them he will be one of the toughest champions in the game, it's just a matter of getting there.

As I've said to several people, my main and only real criticism of Skarner is that he relies on blue throughout the entire game, which means that your AP carry can't use it. He can survive a team fight without blue, but he will be out of mana by the end of it, and will be out of mana half way through and watching people walk away if he only went in with half of his pool. I would almost consider early manamune as a build for this, but I'm not sure delaying TF by 2000g would ever end up working out in his favor.

Perhaps an early Tear, and wait till after TF to upgrade into Manamune?

[Lysah]

Perhaps an early Tear, and wait till after TF to upgrade into Manamune?

I mean, I can probably give it a try in normals, not like it's going to really break the whole game, and I can just blame my team even if it does. Also not sure what item I would want to replace in my build. Currently I go TF + FoN + sunfire/atmas/wriggles for armor + gunblade + mercs + guinsoos. Guinsoo's is easily the most replaceable item, but losing a ton of attack speed and AP for a tiny bit of damage and some mana... >_>

[Starsurge]

Anyway else think that there should be a system requirement for League, tired of waiting 20 minutes to get into a game -.-