1. #7921
    Quote Originally Posted by Mest View Post
    I've started building Stark's Fervor as my first item when I support two AD damage dealers, I think it works fine but do you think it makes sense?
    I can definitely see Stark's being a fine pick if you have a lot of auto attackers in your team, but building it as a first item is kinda meh.

    Its individual components are really bad for you as a supporter and if you compare the gold you spend to finish the Stark's you could also finish either an Aegis or Shurelyas, both giving you a lot more beef and in case of Shurelyas a way more important movementspeed buff.

    So I would rather advice you to go on using the more standard way of building support. However, Stark's after Shurelyas and/or Aegis seems legit.

  2. #7922
    MAN. Mest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antueater View Post
    I can definitely see Stark's being a fine pick if you have a lot of auto attackers in your team, but building it as a first item is kinda meh.

    Its individual components are really bad for you as a supporter and if you compare the gold you spend to finish the Stark's you could also finish either an Aegis or Shurelyas, both giving you a lot more beef and in case of Shurelyas a way more important movementspeed buff.

    So I would rather advice you to go on using the more standard way of building support. However, Stark's after Shurelyas and/or Aegis seems legit.
    Well this is where I've been thinking. 20% life steal, 20% attack speed and -20 armor doesn't only make my auto attackers harder to kill; it also increases their damage output by a substantial amount. I want to finish the Shurelya's asap ofc but since I lose to the gp5 from it I'd usually rather build it as the second item.

    Not hating on Aegis or anything, it's just that Stark's feels like it has more impact on the game with an AD heavy team.

  3. #7923
    Herald of the Titans Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mest View Post
    Well this is where I've been thinking. 20% life steal, 20% attack speed and -20 armor doesn't only make my auto attackers harder to kill; it also increases their damage output by a substantial amount. I want to finish the Shurelya's asap ofc but since I lose to the gp5 from it I'd usually rather build it as the second item.

    Not hating on Aegis or anything, it's just that Stark's feels like it has more impact on the game with an AD heavy team.
    Imo Aegis is more important than stark's, even for an AD heavy team. Gives your team Armor and MR, and is very cost effective item. While Stark's is a definite boost, I think having Aegis just benefits your team more early game.

  4. #7924
    i completely understand where ur coming from Mest

    starks does feel a LOT stronger the earlier you get it, compared to aegis/shurelyas

    however, ive found over a lot of games, that it can be a kinda of coin toss as to which direction the game goes from that point

    either, ur team scores a bunch of fast kills that the opponents werent ready for, or ur team gives up a few easy kills from being too squishy.
    it kinda depends on how ur teammates are gearing tbh.

    if they are most/all getting at least one kinda defensive item early on, then by all means speed the starks through
    but if they are still glass cannon, then the aegis is the safer bet.

    i know for a long time i severely underestimated the sona aura + aegis aura combo, but the results ive gotten with it have swayed my opinion on it
    even to the point of going aegis then starks/will of ancients THEN shurelyas last.

    i know i should really be getting shurelyas earlier, but i kinda like the later surprise use of it, when they arent expecting the turbo rush teamfight, and it can really turn a match

  5. #7925
    Why there's no new champion info yet?

  6. #7926
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Why there's no new champion info yet?
    cos its secretly just jax next week :> i jokes probs cos there isnt one this week because of skins and jaxremake probs one next week instead.


    As for the starks debate.

    It entirely depends on your team, personally i would go aegis then starks then finish shurelyais up if its heavy ad, otherwise aegis then shurelya.
    But you also have to be aware there are many junglers who build aegis anyway (personally i dont i rush frozen heart on most junglers unless theres a ryze on my team) but some junglers just build aegis alot, its there playstle at which point its not as needed. when i see a jungler build that and im support i go starks or wota depending on setup. And partly whos getting ed on our team, eg. if the ap carry mid is 6/2 or something ill get a will just to keep him alive more. If theres 2 ap and they already both get WotA, then theres no point and ill get starks or do shurelyas first.

    more rambling :> its entirely game dependant, generally games are won or lost before you get this far in a support build anyway. Not saying a baron steal could swing it back but generally games are over in the first 15 minutes from experience.

    Not that that stops me from not surrendering and keep on trying

  7. #7927
    Quote Originally Posted by Mest View Post
    I've started building Stark's Fervor as my first item when I support two AD damage dealers, I think it works fine but do you think it makes sense?
    Wouldn't build it first. First take care of your defenses I'd say. You should have enough damage to kill the enemy anyway. Stark's just makes it easier.

  8. #7928
    starks is a very good item if you have people who rely on auto attacks to do their damage, rather than by spamming attacks.

    if you can position yourself properly i don't really see the need to build so defensively when you are support. as a jungler i usually buy shurelya's so i don't really think another is needed, unless you really do suck at being in the right places at the right times.

    the -20 armor reduction on starks is more than the bonus aegis gives your team, so you effectively have more armor in comparison to the enemies. not to mention that the 20% attack speed and the 20% life steal give insane damage and sustain buffs. but yes, it is extremely situational though and there are only a few situations when it is a good choice. when the chance is there though, it is fucking awesome.

  9. #7929
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Why there's no new champion info yet?
    I hope there aren't any for a while and they focus more on making all the current champions as viable as possible.
    Last edited by Geist19; 2012-01-11 at 03:08 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #7930
    Garen could use a rework to be honest.

  11. #7931
    @taric discussion:

    I really hope you play him with the defensive masteries. Make him a lot stronger and nearly impossible to kill unless focussed.

    I usually go Philo, HoG, Boots as my Core then depending on a few factors:

    - facerolling: Shurelias -> Aegis

    - slightly ahead/even match/behind: Aegis -> Shurelias


    Last game I got tons of gold from assists and some kills early in lane (ad carry dead or he'd have survived).

    Aegis, Shurelias, Mercs, Frozen heart (they had 3 ADs) and wit's end (Our AD sucked positionwise -> got gibbed instantly so no starks) + wards.

    Both top and mid had Wota so the only alternative would ahve been an abysals instead of the wits end but I enjoyed scaring the enemy. They either let me run around and stun whoever I wanted to and reducing my CD on heal by constantly chipping at their ad or ap or they cc'd/bursted me down resulting in my team beging able to do wahtever they wanted. Win - Win for us

  12. #7932
    Mechagnome Silent's Avatar
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    TIME TO CHANGE ZE TOPIC :

    On Talon, what should i upgrade IE into? If im playing really safe and i know its a win and i wont die i get BT, but if its not, any clue?
    I usually go for Brutal > Hexdrinker ( if 3x AP ) > CDR Boots > by now im a bit lost and not THAT sure what to get for dmg

  13. #7933
    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    @taric discussion:

    I really hope you play him with the defensive masteries. Make him a lot stronger and nearly impossible to kill unless focussed.

    I usually go Philo, HoG, Boots as my Core then depending on a few factors:

    - facerolling: Shurelias -> Aegis

    - slightly ahead/even match/behind: Aegis -> Shurelias


    Last game I got tons of gold from assists and some kills early in lane (ad carry dead or he'd have survived).

    Aegis, Shurelias, Mercs, Frozen heart (they had 3 ADs) and wit's end (Our AD sucked positionwise -> got gibbed instantly so no starks) + wards.

    Both top and mid had Wota so the only alternative would ahve been an abysals instead of the wits end but I enjoyed scaring the enemy. They either let me run around and stun whoever I wanted to and reducing my CD on heal by constantly chipping at their ad or ap or they cc'd/bursted me down resulting in my team beging able to do wahtever they wanted. Win - Win for us
    Why would you play defensive masteries on a support? The gains in the utility tree are far better for a support role.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silent View Post
    TIME TO CHANGE ZE TOPIC :

    On Talon, what should i upgrade IE into? If im playing really safe and i know its a win and i wont die i get BT, but if its not, any clue?
    I usually go for Brutal > Hexdrinker ( if 3x AP ) > CDR Boots > by now im a bit lost and not THAT sure what to get for dmg
    I would get a Trinity Force after CDR boots. I really love it. Extra damage when you strike with your Q and a chance to slow gaining 10% increased damage on auto attacks. Not to mention the movement speed increase.

    I usually get a Sheen after or before The Brutalizer followed by a Phage or BF sword depending on how I'm doing. You can stick the CDR boots anywhere in-between. I usually get regular boots and upgrade them after my Brutalizer.

  14. #7934
    also, the new skins are NOT limited edition as it was first thought. they were confirmed permanent on both the US and EU forums. time to wait for a sale before i bother grabbing them!

  15. #7935
    Quote Originally Posted by crazypearce View Post
    also, the new skins are NOT limited edition as it was first thought. they were confirmed permanent on both the US and EU forums. time to wait for a sale before i bother grabbing them!
    Ahh that's great! Now I know what to save my left over RP for!

  16. #7936
    Dreadlord
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    Finally a good Wukong skin!
    Also have to say after a night of ranked duo's with a friend of mine I need to say I have grown a newfound dislike of people, whether it's leavers, afker's, whiners, and people who just taunt people the whole game it just gets so frustrating that it seems to be impossible to have a single legitimate good game with both sides being respectful of the opposition.

  17. #7937
    Why would you play defensive masteries on a support? The gains in the utility tree are far better for a support role.
    Well for Taric Defense could eb quite good (hell, I use defense on Janna). The good things in Utility are basically Mana Regen, Greed (and the extra starter gold), CDR and reduced CD on summoner spells.

    Now that sure as hell isn't bad, but Taric goes up close, and is mostly quite tanky for a support. In Defense you get extra MR and Armor for early game harass, better Heal if you take the summoner spell, extra health (again early game this is very good), reduced damage, MS for initiating, CDR/level and again more health + tenacity. Plus you can still take the improved CV/flash mastery, mana regen and improved ward (if you even find that useful). Covering imo the more important things from Utility for a Taric.

    Utility is stronger for Sona/Soraka imo.


    p.s. Why did I forget about Graves? basically the only ranged AD that fits my style.

  18. #7938
    Quote Originally Posted by Mest View Post
    Well this is where I've been thinking. 20% life steal, 20% attack speed and -20 armor doesn't only make my auto attackers harder to kill; it also increases their damage output by a substantial amount. I want to finish the Shurelya's asap ofc but since I lose to the gp5 from it I'd usually rather build it as the second item.

    Not hating on Aegis or anything, it's just that Stark's feels like it has more impact on the game with an AD heavy team.
    Starks is very good, imo. But I almost never get it unless we are doing very well in the lane. The recipe for Starks is just not that awesome for the supporter. And there are other items to grab early on that help the support, yet help the team in mid/late game.

    Truthfully, I only grab Starks when my carry was a melee without a lot of sustain on their own. Or we were winning the lane with ease.

  19. #7939
    High Overlord Rising Tide's Avatar
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    I find new login screen and music quite full of epicness, yes.

  20. #7940
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent View Post
    TIME TO CHANGE ZE TOPIC :

    On Talon, what should i upgrade IE into? If im playing really safe and i know its a win and i wont die i get BT, but if its not, any clue?
    I usually go for Brutal > Hexdrinker ( if 3x AP ) > CDR Boots > by now im a bit lost and not THAT sure what to get for dmg
    on talon I like to start with boots x3 pots, then go to philo stone and brutalizer. After that it depends on how you want to build. I go for cdr boots, then a bloodthirster. Though you could go for a sheen for some extra burst and turn it into a triforce. Ghost blade is a good item for him, but I don't like rushing it. I really only build it since I have the brutalizer already.

    You can also roam with that build if you get speed boots or mobility.

    IE is a good item for talon, since his Q can crit, but I prefer straight up AD burst to capitalize on his ult and W for team fights. If you catch a team out of position, you can just shred the entire team with your ult.

    So really, there are a lot of ways you can build talon. Just depends on your playstyle.

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