Champions like Yorick always seem "pathetic" and "easy", but play him yourself and you'll see he has his cons too.
There's always champions people find OP until they play them themselves.
Like for example, I tried Zyra in a PvP game, went against Fizz in mid, he completely annihilated me and I thought his early game damage was just fucking off the rocker, but then again, he can't clear waves for shit, he's melee and I didn't run with MR runes.
(Not to mention I played like shit and got way too close a lot of times.)
Fizz? Fizz does clear waves like shit yes. :P Except later on, then he just needs E and perhaps some auto attacks.
Yep, loving Zyra. One of the most fun AP mids in the game. It's really fun when they stand in your ult so the knockup hits everyone and your team kills people off in those few secs they can't fight back.
Haven't ran into anyone who I would say counter her. I even out pushed a Cassiopeia. Kassadin could potentially be really annoying. Swain post 6 would also be an issue unless you knock him up before he ults.
Actually today there was a teamfight in which our Twitch killed their Zyra in a last standoff and Twitch won.
But then the plants finished Twitch off and it was a double ace.
I was hitting the plants too, but they hit back with a big middle finger attitude. :P
I haven't played him myself, but I'm not interested in trying him out cause he is, sadly, very similar to Master Yi, as in, he is mostly AA damage except his ulti.
I'm not a 14 year old kid who plays one game against a certain champion, can't beat him 1v1 through smashing my buttons and whine about them being OP. My thoughts have come after I have played with/against about 20 Xin Zhaos and in all the games (except one, where the Xin on my team thought it was a sin to use your abilities), he has been in either the most damage dealt champion, second or third at worst. I have gone through his skill set alot and compared with others.
You are right about the Q cdr. I wrongly worded the scaling of ulti. I realize that it is bonus AD.
Lets look at the cd on his abilities:
Q: 5 sec at max rank
W:12 sec at max rank
E: 9 sec at max rank
R: 80 sec at max rank
Xin is said to be played as a bruiser. However due to his ulti, W passive and Q giving massive survive options, he doesn't need to stack alot of tank items. He can go with a hybrid built, and most guides I have seen so far just suggest the same. They suggest 3 tank items (including boots) and then 3 dps items. It depends however, but you can get 2 dps at least or 4 dps at most. Looking at his build, he will atleast have 20% CDR from items. Taking a base of 20% cdr JUST from items, the cd on his abilities are as follows:
Q: 4 sec at max rank
W: 9.6 sec at max rank
E: 7.2 sec at max rank
R: 64 sec at max rank
Now add the 3 sec cdr from Q and you have
W: 6.6 sec
E: 4.2 sec
R: 61 sec.
This is simply too LOW cd on abilities.
Other champions with ability CDR I can think of are Ez whose Q which gives CDR on hit and his other abilities have a long cd. Skarner who is pretty much built around CDR and AS but overall have high cds except his Q, there is another one with Q reducing other abilities by 1 sec but I can't remember who. I don't remeber/know any other. All of these champions have built in CDR cause they have very high CDs on other abilities and are more dependent on abilities then AA.
W being 80% AS steroid has way too less CD and has no consequences for using it at the wrong time. As a matter of fact, your W will be pretty much up all the time cause it has a duration of 5 sec and a cd of 6.6 sec, which can be dropped further below btw. No other AS steroid is this powerful and have no side-effects.
Tristana's 90% AS has a 7 sec duration but 20 sec cd, use it at the wrong time and you have hampered your team.
Fiora has a 120% AS but with a 3 sec duration and 11 sec CD, it is also her escape/grab closer, but Fiora is in a pretty bad situation overall being a melee carry etc.
Graves 4 sec AS but at the cost of an escape/gap closer with a 14 sec cd.
Twitch has a 5 sec AS but at the cost of his escape/stealth with a 8 sec cd.
Eve gains 120% AS for 3 sec but after getting two hits with 9 sec cd.
WW, 80%, 10 sec AS buff with a 16 sec cd. The only one who comes close to have having a none-consequential heavy AS steroid, but still not as much as Xin.
Every champion has to think and calculate when to use their AS steroid. Xin, not so much.
Rest all of the get stacks for AS through certain means and not insta AS at will, you need to "work" to get it.
Because of this OP AS steroid, his Q, you should built a BT on Xin and along with the passive (heal) from W, he will end up having unrivaled self healing.
W being an aoe slow/damage along with a gap closer which also applies the passive at a 4 sec cd just sounds wrong. Comparing it to Akali's, she can use three chargers, EACH charge has a 15 sec cd and doesn't apply any other effects unless you have her Q on the target. Besides, Akali is an assassin, Xin is a bruiser.
As I said before, he can go Q+W+E on a person, kill them, then do the same on other in no time or do it on the same person again in no time.
Xin is a bruiser, but can do what a carry can with his AS steroid and what assassin's do with his insta charge.
And his ulti is just ridiculous. The base damage at rank 3 does 15% HP damage (which can be count as true damage) along with 325 BASE damage. It has a RADIUS of 375. In a team fight, if you happen to hit three people, that's a total of 45% true damage dealt PLUS 975 (not counting ANY bonus damage), knocking them back (granted none are "challenged") and giving Xin 75 MR and armor.
If you happen to hit all 5 (very rare occasion though) you will do 75% damage and 1625 BASE damage. It can be count has one champion dead.
It's just ridiculous damage.
You say he is fucked with just one cc when built like a glass cannon. The thing is, you won't be doing that cause it's dumb. As I said before, you will give him a hybrid build with a BT cause of retarded AS and W passive. What about others where he can pretty much chain cc them into oblivion? And how can you say he will kited when he can pretty much Q+W+E, where he will close the gap, getting in some heavy AAs (which in the only thing he does really) and knocking the enemy into the air. If you survive this combo, it won't take long for Xin to use it again. I have given you the numbers above, and they are the low end, not high end.
And he won't be going to charge all the time during lane phase, no one is going to use their abilities all the time during lane phase, but the fact it, he will do much more damage then others without having to think.
Xin, right now, is a very low risk and very very high reward champion. His abilities have no consequences whatsoever, he can be built to have too much sustain, can be built to have great survivability and can be built to have great damage all at the same time.
I've been trying Zyra jungle for a couple of games today and...it works. It's not SSS-tier but it works. Her first clear is slightly slower than standard (we're talking slightly. Her damage on Q is really nice) and she really needs a proper leash (if you even mention superman leash, I will cut you) but yeah, she's got decent ganks and very nice base damage so unless you get juked to hell and beyond you should be fine and once she gets some AP items her clears become ridiculously easy. Couple that with the ability to place free wards while invading so you don't walk right into the jungler and I'd say she's pretty nice.
Of course, there's also dueling. She'll lose unless the jungler is someone rlysquishy. Guaranteed.
---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 11:18 PM ----------
Besides, I had a winning streak of 5 games yesterday. I guess today is canceling that out.
Xin's damage is definitely crazy at the minute. I've had Xins absolutely wreck faces with nothing but a Wriggles and T1 boots (and that was in a game where I was fed). More than a few times I've heard someone on Teamspeak / in game chat going "Jesus Christ that damage!" about a xin zhao.
Re: Xin - rule of thumb. Don't whine about a champions unless you actually played him. Goes for Yorick as well. Good news for some people: Yorick will be receiving some nerfs. Xin can now finally be properly balanced and they might tone down his damage if they think it's too much.
Last edited by Duilliath; 2012-07-26 at 12:22 AM.
In which case, what the hell are you doing clearing your lane instead of assassinating people like a good Fizz?
But idk, I still do it sometimes, I am at 1100 rating.
I never do such things with Ezreal though, his E cooldown is just way too high to waste it for a minion last hit.
Fizz his E cd is not very long.
Can you make me a new sig please.....? :P
Last edited by Bananarepublic; 2012-07-26 at 12:32 AM.