1. #12021
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolkingler1 View Post
    Fizz? Fizz does clear waves like shit yes. :P Except later on, then he just needs E and perhaps some auto attacks.
    Do that and you just lost your escape. That's just asking to get rooted/snared/stunned/obliterated against a good opponent.

    --

    Re: Xin - rule of thumb. Don't whine about a champions unless you actually played him. Goes for Yorick as well. Good news for some people: Yorick will be receiving some nerfs. Xin can now finally be properly balanced and they might tone down his damage if they think it's too much.
    Last edited by Duilliath; 2012-07-26 at 12:22 AM.

  2. #12022
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Do that and you just lost your escape. That's just asking to get rooted/snared/stunned/obliterated against a good opponent.
    Not if you know everybody from the enemy team is elsewhere.

  3. #12023
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    In which case, what the hell are you doing clearing your lane instead of assassinating people like a good Fizz?

  4. #12024
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    In which case, what the hell are you doing clearing your lane instead of assassinating people like a good Fizz?
    Hey, I am not that good you know. -.-

    But idk, I still do it sometimes, I am at 1100 rating.

    I never do such things with Ezreal though, his E cooldown is just way too high to waste it for a minion last hit.

    Fizz his E cd is not very long.

    And Dulliath...












    Can you make me a new sig please.....? :P
    Last edited by Bananarepublic; 2012-07-26 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #12025
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    In which case, what the hell are you doing clearing your lane instead of assassinating people like a good Fizz?
    Clear the lane then assasinate someone with Fizz's great mobility. Picture related, It's Fizz riding in for a kill

    https://images.nonexiste.net/popular...r-my-mom-.jpeg

  6. #12026
    Just started playing as Evelynn, I'm 11/13 in wins since I started. Really enjoying it so far, never played her before the rework but the new Eve is pretty pwn. Best score so far - jungling - was 8/1/12. Her Ultimate <3

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  7. #12027
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    Just started playing as Evelynn, I'm 11/13 in wins since I started. Really enjoying it so far, never played her before the rework but the new Eve is pretty pwn. Best score so far - jungling - was 8/1/12. Her Ultimate <3
    Yeah, she is pretty good now.

    I think the shield part really helps.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 12:47 AM ----------

    Anybody here who is playing on EU West btw?

  8. #12028
    The Lightbringer Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    *snip*
    that's too long to leave quoted, so snipped.

    I'm not really sure what you the guides are suggesting but if you end up with a ghostblade I can see the ~20% cdr. Otherwise he will probably be at zero, as the rather standard Wriggles (later sold for BT) / Atmogs / Triforce / boots doesn't really net any cdr. Maybe you get 10% from blue, but that's beside the point. Possibly more depending on what masteries you're running too.

    I'll leave the numbers as they are for the sake of the argument, though usually your cdr isn't going to be that low.

    One thing about his ult that you are misstating is the 15% of their health. It's applied as physical damage not true damage. It says so in the tooltip. I had to test in a custom game too, but armor heavily mitigates the damage done by the ult. Even on targets that have gobs of HP. You have to account for armor when you are considering his damage, there are plenty of champions that just have ridiculous numbers on paper, but get shut down my armor/mr. So the baseline of 1625 damage if you hit your entire team would probably slashed in half or so. Some targets would have a lot more than the 50% threshold, some would have less. The damage is certainly good, and it scales now too, but it's not an insta victory in a team fight as you are painting it.

    And you are grossly overestimating the healing his W does. At max rank it does 50 healing every three hits. Which to be honest is rather worthless in a teamfight. With a triforce it goes up to 68 I think, but that is still a very tiny number. It's good in lane, and it's good in the jungle, but it's not going to save you. When you put a BT into it and consider that his sustain too, you are skewing things. Give any ad champion a BT and their sustain goes up a lot. I know you are saying it's because of the AS steroid that he has, but you have to build him tanky. The majority of the time you're not going to be able to get the BT very early, if at all. (I don't play him in lane, so I'm not sure about there, I only have jungle experience on this) Maybe you can build him like riven and try to abuse the AD the BT gives you, but it would leave you too squishy. He is a bruiser that has no tanking abilities outside of his ult. Which requires you to hit multiple members of their team before it gives you any MR/Armor. Granted it's not hard to charge into a team and hit R, but you are going to get stunned or silenced a lot before you get a chance to ult. Though you really shouldn't be the first one into a team fight.

    Lets say you do get in, and ult all 5 people. You now are a lot tankier and a very big threat. Shame on the enemy team for stacking like that. Though you said it's unrealistic to hit the whole team so i'll give you that. Three is not too hard, but still not very likely. Though really his ult is a lot better for displacing people that the damage it does. To me that's the really proper use for it.

    I'm not really sure why you keep bringing akali into this either. She can store three charges of her charge, and she gains one on kill or assist. Which Xin Zhao doesn't. I'm really not sure what you are trying to say with that. She has a spammable dash that will end up doing much more damage than xin's because she builds AP, and it can be used three times, and possibly 8-9 in a team fight assuming everything dies. You're going to get maybe 2-3 charges with xin at most.

    If you open with your E and then immediately W and Q, your charge goes down to 4.2 seconds. Which that means you can't really do anything in the team fight until that charge comes back up. The vast majority of the time you are going to be heavily slowed in fights. If you aren't that's awesome, but speaking from experience, slows completely destroy your damage and sticking ability. Or say if the champion has a displacement move. Lets say you charge Tristana and she jumps away. You didn't get your TTS off, so your charge is now on a 7 second cd and you're stranded. It is a good move for sure, but you are over valuing it.

    I'm not going to argue anything you've said about TTS. It is very strong right now, and might get a slight base damage or scaling nerf. I don't know though. They did fix the problem of his CDs spiraling out of control with it though. Before the CD reduction on hit was on his AS steroid. And if you got far enough ahead, you could basically keep TTS and your E almost always up. So they fixed that part of him with the more practical get three seconds off with TTS.

    Your main argument seems to be that his W is way overpowered for it's cd and what it provides. It does provide a lot of AS, but you're not going to have any AS on Xin outside of a triforce. Maybe you got black cleaver, but i'm still iffy about that item. I'm not sure it's as good as it was because of his passive now, but that's also beside the point. You get a nice AS boost off of your base AS. You don't become a killing machine all of a sudden. You hit faster, but it's not like other AS steroids where the champion is already expected to have some extra AS. It is a rather low risk move, but it doesn't boost your damage to insane amounts. If you aren't getting focused and you get to just rip through their team, then ya it's really going to make the difference, but Xin Zhao is a bruiser. You are one of the first into the fight (unless you are trying to peel your carries) and you are going to eat the initial cc that you don't want you carries to get hit by. Sometimes that's an exhaust, sometimes it's other things.

    He is not a particularly risky champion, but his dominance ends once the early game has. He scales much better than he used to, which actually makes him useable now, but you still aren't going to do much if you didn't do well in the early game. His early damage is insane, but you also have to remember that he has no way to escape outside of the knockback on his ult. It's natural for a champion that has no way to get away is going to do more damage than one that can. Kog maw does some of the highest damage in the game, but he has absolutely no way to escape outside of his slow. Graves does a lot of damage, but not quite as much as kog, but he has an escape. You see where I'm going with this. The most mobile champions tend to have a little less damage since they have the added mobility. Xin Zhao has very little mobility. His only movement move is one that puts him at the enemy. He is a go for broke champion, and his moves reflect that. Once you've committed to a fight you don't get to turn away and escape.

    And I can only hope that by hybrid you mean tank/dps and not what hybrid is understood to mean (AD/AP)

  9. #12029
    Quote Originally Posted by coolkingler1 View Post
    Yeah, she is pretty good now.

    I think the shield part really helps.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 12:47 AM ----------

    Anybody here who is playing on EU West btw?
    Yeah the shield is badass when you drop it on 5 people during a team fight then unload with Qs and Es!

    I play EU west but I'm usually in 5 man premades, only level 16 at the moment too. :P

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  10. #12030
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    Yeah the shield is badass when you drop it on 5 people during a team fight then unload with Qs and Es!

    I play EU west but I'm usually in 5 man premades, only level 16 at the moment too. :P
    Ah like that. Give your username then!

  11. #12031
    Quote Originally Posted by coolkingler1 View Post
    Ah like that. Give your username then!
    My name is Bawhum

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  12. #12032
    The Lightbringer Isrozzis's Avatar
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    so what do you guys think of eve? I bought her before the patch, but I haven't played her at all yet.

  13. #12033
    I just got Yorick in a 3v3 ARAM with friends. The other team were three ranged champions. I felt absolutely useless. They could harass me constantly while I could barely get any ghouls off on them.

    Mind you, I'm not very experienced with him, but if there is one thing I think I know, it's that he's really easy to harass if you're ranged.

    My point being that Yorick isn't some magical super top like some people are making him up to be.

  14. #12034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    so what do you guys think of eve? I bought her before the patch, but I haven't played her at all yet.
    Wicked fun with a weak early game. She shines mid game, and her new ult gives her the teamfight presence and survivability she sorely needed to assassinate a carry.

    Hybrid or close to full AD is the best way to build her as far as I can tell. TF, Gunblade, Wriggles, and Wit's End are all items I would buy on her.

  15. #12035
    The Lightbringer Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Wicked fun with a weak early game. She shines mid game, and her new ult gives her the teamfight presence and survivability she sorely needed to assassinate a carry.

    Hybrid or close to full AD is the best way to build her as far as I can tell. TF, Gunblade, Wriggles, and Wit's End are all items I would buy on her.
    I haven't seen one do well yet in any of the games i'e played, so I was skeptical lol. It seems that if she gets a few kills early she will really do some damage in the mid game, but that she is gimped largely by her weaker early game. Though this is all just from observation.

  16. #12036
    Fluffy Kitten Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    I haven't seen one do well yet in any of the games i'e played, so I was skeptical lol. It seems that if she gets a few kills early she will really do some damage in the mid game, but that she is gimped largely by her weaker early game. Though this is all just from observation.
    Yeah. You can come back from a bad early game if you pick up kills in skirmishes and Teamfights, but if the enemy team is smart you won't get many kills in the laning phase.

    Another thing is she is easily counter-jungled and invaded her first few clears. I would have been able to kill her at level 2 as Nunu (my Fiora invaded with me even though I didn't need her there). Any of the stronger dueling junglers and she would have melted (Darius, Shyv, Olaf, Udyr). She is better as a counter-pick than a first pick.

    Pretty much every time I'm jungling, if I see an Eve I make sure to steal all her buffs because it's too easy. She might gank more, but as long as my team is competent we completely shut her down.

  17. #12037
    The Lightbringer Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Yeah. You can come back from a bad early game if you pick up kills in skirmishes and Teamfights, but if the enemy team is smart you won't get many kills in the laning phase.

    Another thing is she is easily counter-jungled and invaded her first few clears. I would have been able to kill her at level 2 as Nunu (my Fiora invaded with me even though I didn't need her there). Any of the stronger dueling junglers and she would have melted (Darius, Shyv, Olaf, Udyr). She is better as a counter-pick than a first pick.

    Pretty much every time I'm jungling, if I see an Eve I make sure to steal all her buffs because it's too easy. She might gank more, but as long as my team is competent we completely shut her down.
    When she is jungling I take both my buffs, then try to hunt her down at red or double golems. It's risky, but it's almost always a kill if I can get on her. Her stealth mechanic isn't terribly useful in the jungle since she is either at the camp or she isn't. And chances are she hasn't been out of combat long enough for it to reset either.

    I'll have to give her a try sometime. She sounds like a lot of fun now, but that she works better with certain teams, and against certain junglers. Like if they had a tank jungler it would be safer to pick her because you know you're probably not going to be counterjungled as hard.

  18. #12038
    Herald of the Titans Kuthe's Avatar
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    Oh my god Zyra is strong.

    Her burst damage with her Q + E is insane all game.
    Last night I spend about 5 games playing with 3 IRL friends, and one of their LoL friends who has chosen Zyra to be his main. He's good at her, but the damage is insane regardless.

    She needs to be ganked regularly to not go out of control.

    She can also jungle :'D
    I spectated a ranked game with a Zyra doing it. It's actually not slow.
    Sure there are better champs to do it, but with turrents, damage, snares and a knock-up, she can provide pretty insane ganks.
    I won't be buying her though, I spent all my IP buying more runes. Ugh.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  19. #12039
    Fluffy Kitten Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    Oh my god Zyra is strong.

    Her burst damage with her Q + E is insane all game.
    Last night I spend about 5 games playing with 3 IRL friends, and one of their LoL friends who has chosen Zyra to be his main. He's good at her, but the damage is insane regardless.

    She needs to be ganked regularly to not go out of control.

    She can also jungle :'D
    I spectated a ranked game with a Zyra doing it. It's actually not slow.
    Sure there are better champs to do it, but with turrents, damage, snares and a knock-up, she can provide pretty insane ganks.
    I won't be buying her though, I spent all my IP buying more runes. Ugh.
    You have to land her combo's on seeds to be the most effective. I've played her in every game today and you notice the missing plant damage if you drop a seed too late or you miss a seed (mostly happens with E). It's gotten me killed in close fights I probably should have won or allowed an enemy to escape at really low health. Her ult is another interesting mechanic since it is fairly easy to run out of, but good timing and placement guarantees a kill.

    I think her high skill cap will put her in the same place I feel Jayce is in. Good players will destroy you and will make her feel OP. The average player will do well, but nothing special enough to make people notice. Lastly, bad players just won't play her since they feed worse than playing a normal champ and Zyra isn't fun when you fuck up or play bad.

  20. #12040
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    My name is Bawhum
    Seriously, not cool how you stood me up...

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