1. #39141
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Exactly who agree he is balanced ?
    I don't see him a danger in offense but his escapability from most ganks is insane high, with easily 2 flash and cripple enemy attack and q beyond walls and kick away
    His escapability is player dependent. Same goes for his damage. Played well, he is very difficult to stop, but played poorly and he is a god awful champion. You know who has excessive amounts of escapes? Ahri, Fizz, Zed, any ADC with a dash, Nidalee, Riven and more I'm sure. No one really complains about their ability to escape (except a few whining about Nidalee and Riven and the sheer hatred Fizz's pole gets)

  2. #39142
    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    His escapability is player dependent. Same goes for his damage. Played well, he is very difficult to stop, but played poorly and he is a god awful champion. You know who has excessive amounts of escapes? Ahri, Fizz, Zed, any ADC with a dash, Nidalee, Riven and more I'm sure. No one really complains about their ability to escape (except a few whining about Nidalee and Riven and the sheer hatred Fizz's pole gets)
    What? those champs arent even remotely compareable. Ahris is a fricking ultimate for christs sake, shes not flying around the map all the time like Lee does, she can ult every 80 seconds or something. Fizz, Zed, and any ADC with dash cannot go back to back highly mobile moves like Lee, big difference. Nidalee is probably the closest in this example but even she cant do back to back its merely a very short CD. Nobody I see has a problem with Lee being able to Q or Lee being able to W. Its that he could W AND Q immediately after one another

  3. #39143
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    And don't forget that these champs (Fizz, Zed, Ahri etc) have to choose: they want to flee from enemies by using their skills, or do damage. If they used escapes as "flee" option, they do significantly less damage than they could

  4. #39144
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    What? those champs arent even remotely compareable. Ahris is a fricking ultimate for christs sake, shes not flying around the map all the time like Lee does, she can ult every 80 seconds or something. Fizz, Zed, and any ADC with dash cannot go back to back highly mobile moves like Lee, big difference. Nidalee is probably the closest in this example but even she cant do back to back its merely a very short CD. Nobody I see has a problem with Lee being able to Q or Lee being able to W. Its that he could W AND Q immediately after one another
    Lee has always been like that, but only recently have people started moaning so much about it(apparently). If having 2 dashes is such a crime, why is it okay for Fiora to be able to Q twice(if there are enemies), Yasuo to be able to E forever as long as he has targets, Kassadin to Flash every few seconds, Akali can dash 3 times+1 per kill, Irelia can dash as much as she wants as long as the dash kills the target, Jarvan can EQ and ult to dash twice in rapid succession, LeBlanc can dash twice AND dash back to each of the starting points, Vi can Q and ult for 2 dashes? Oh, right, because it's part of their kit and their identity. Lee has to spend gold(and possibly drop vision from old wards) to pull off lots of his stuff, otherwise it has a ~1.5 minute CD with the trinket.
    The way I see it, the only problem with Lee is his VERY early level burst(his level ~2-3 invades are brutal), his mobility is part of what makes him Lee. I don't mind the ulti change, because it achieves the goal that they're shooting for, making it a decision between utility and damage. The passive change is silly, it forces him into 1 style of build lategame.
    The W change is just dumb. The problem with the way they're planning to change it right now is that it REFUNDS energy if you dash to a non-ward. Great, I get 50 energy back from the 100 energy cost. That doesn't matter if you can't GET to 100 energy before dying. Make it have different costs for wards and non-wards(that should be possible, idk), or use the Thresh-Q solution that they've also mentioned, where it's not the cost but the cooldown that gets "refunded" if used in a certain way(in Thresh's case that way is actually hitting the Q)
    Riot should just focus on champions that are actually problems(or "toxic" as they like to call it) instead of trying to completely change champions that are pretty much as balanced as it gets. Lee Sin always being part of all metas is a good thing, his kit makes him work in lots of teamcomps. That's what Riot should try to make more champions like.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they're going to change him completely or keep him as the Lee Sin he is and has been for a long time.
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  5. #39145
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    Lee has always been like that, but only recently have people started moaning so much about it(apparently). If having 2 dashes is such a crime, why is it okay for Fiora to be able to Q twice(if there are enemies), Yasuo to be able to E forever as long as he has targets, Kassadin to Flash every few seconds, Akali can dash 3 times+1 per kill, Irelia can dash as much as she wants as long as the dash kills the target, Jarvan can EQ and ult to dash twice in rapid succession, LeBlanc can dash twice AND dash back to each of the starting points, Vi can Q and ult for 2 dashes? Oh, right, because it's part of their kit and their identity. Lee has to spend gold(and possibly drop vision from old wards) to pull off lots of his stuff, otherwise it has a ~1.5 minute CD with the trinket.
    The way I see it, the only problem with Lee is his VERY early level burst(his level ~2-3 invades are brutal), his mobility is part of what makes him Lee. I don't mind the ulti change, because it achieves the goal that they're shooting for, making it a decision between utility and damage. The passive change is silly, it forces him into 1 style of build lategame.
    The W change is just dumb. The problem with the way they're planning to change it right now is that it REFUNDS energy if you dash to a non-ward. Great, I get 50 energy back from the 100 energy cost. That doesn't matter if you can't GET to 100 energy before dying. Make it have different costs for wards and non-wards(that should be possible, idk), or use the Thresh-Q solution that they've also mentioned, where it's not the cost but the cooldown that gets "refunded" if used in a certain way(in Thresh's case that way is actually hitting the Q)
    Riot should just focus on champions that are actually problems(or "toxic" as they like to call it) instead of trying to completely change champions that are pretty much as balanced as it gets. Lee Sin always being part of all metas is a good thing, his kit makes him work in lots of teamcomps. That's what Riot should try to make more champions like.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they're going to change him completely or keep him as the Lee Sin he is and has been for a long time.
    Does Yasuo dash to Wards? Does fiora? We've got a single example and that's Katarina, and she can't LEAP IN then LEAP OUT in one go.

    Lee can simply go " HUZZAH" leap in, slap kick" HUZZAH, SO LONG" and leave again.

    Edit: Jax too, can leap towards a ward, but not leave again.
    Last edited by Omnoms; 2014-03-10 at 12:41 PM.

  6. #39146

  7. #39147
    ahahahah XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Complaining about Lee Sin's mobility while ignoring the fact that Leblanc exists isn't making your argument look strong.
    hence i ban her :P shes stupidly strong and hard to gank
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=dw+soul+roc in oceanic now Lol

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  8. #39148
    The best thing about the Bronze 4 thread is the Teemo video. The DFG Lich Bane Teemo, bringing more burst than Le Blanc!

  9. #39149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Complaining about Lee Sin's mobility while ignoring the fact that Leblanc exists isn't making your argument look strong.
    Thing with Leblanc is maximizing her mobility comes at a cost. Sure she can double port but by doing she sacrifices a chunk of damage, since she must use her ultimate to do so. Which I guess is my point, if theres a true penalty then there is more counterplay to it and I "think" thats what Riot is trying to accomplish here. Its why Shaco is being reworked, or they at least say they are because if done correctly a lot of his kit cant really be countered. Is he OP? Not at all, but doesnt mean everything is balanced.

  10. #39150
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    What damage does Leblanc sacrifice? She goes in on you and then hits W again to back off.
    Thats her basic combo. Im talking double dashing to get in range of someone which requires the use of Mimic, not goin in and immediately out. Which Leblanc has to do in a 3 sec window or she cannot W a second time.

  11. #39151
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Yesterday i've seen a Russian soap opera called "platinum 2", i don't watch TV, I was at a party, where TV was on, and after commercial break this thing started and there was like, 6 9 yo kids who played pirates i think and they argued about who is going to be boatswain. It was hilarious, just like in lobby for solo q.

    Also i've seen two 9 yo kids in subway (sandwiches) arguing about not being able to penetrate T-50 "frontal armour" (which is shit, i know, believe me, this tank has plate on his front armour without any slopes and it can be penned by anything)

    Then i've seen 14 yo kids arguing about spirit breaker being OPed character in dota. It was first time when i've seen so many scrubbies in one day in real life, and now i have whole new undestand on who i play with and against.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    What damage does Leblanc sacrifice? She goes in on you and then hits W again to back off.
    her range on W is like, half of a range on Lees jumps, and CD on her escape is much longer, and she needs to land her W on you or she loses big chunk of damage.

  12. #39152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Lee Sin W is 700 range and Leblanc W is 600. "half of a range" my ass. Lee Sin's Q is also a skill shot and if he misses it he loses out of a large part of his damage.



    Why would you compare double dash to Lee Sin's W? That would be more like Lee Sin kicking a guy away and then using W for more distance. Also going in and immediately out doesn't take 3 seconds.
    I was talking about his Q, as we speak about jumping on someone. Or you assume that Lee jumps on someone with safeguard?
    Qs range is 1100, it's not exactly half of a range, but it is very close. Also, missing Lees Q is kinda, hard. And implying its CD its not even matters
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2014-03-11 at 04:19 AM.

  13. #39153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Thing with Leblanc is maximizing her mobility comes at a cost. Sure she can double port but by doing she sacrifices a chunk of damage, since she must use her ultimate to do so. Which I guess is my point, if theres a true penalty then there is more counterplay to it and I "think" thats what Riot is trying to accomplish here. Its why Shaco is being reworked, or they at least say they are because if done correctly a lot of his kit cant really be countered. Is he OP? Not at all, but doesnt mean everything is balanced.
    They're reworking his E and a change to his ultimate. I just hope they don't change the invulnerability for .5 seconds on his ult, that is key to Shaco.
    Hey everyone

  14. #39154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sokka View Post
    They're reworking his E and a change to his ultimate. I just hope they don't change the invulnerability for .5 seconds on his ult, that is key to Shaco.
    I really doubt that they will leave it, at some point, they said that they want to make Shaco ult into something really impressive

  15. #39155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I really doubt that they will leave it, at some point, they said that they want to make Shaco ult into something really impressive
    If by impressive they mean improve the coding of the clone (it doesn't listen half the time) that would be good enough for me.
    Hey everyone

  16. #39156
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Thing with Leblanc is maximizing her mobility comes at a cost. Sure she can double port but by doing she sacrifices a chunk of damage, since she must use her ultimate to do so. Which I guess is my point, if theres a true penalty then there is more counterplay to it and I "think" thats what Riot is trying to accomplish here. Its why Shaco is being reworked, or they at least say they are because if done correctly a lot of his kit cant really be countered. Is he OP? Not at all, but doesnt mean everything is balanced.
    Honestly Le Blanc doesn't suffer. As Link proved the other day where he W'd Flashed DFG'd Q'd R and killed Voyboy, then hit W again and was 4 miles away.

  17. #39157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Honestly Le Blanc doesn't suffer. As Link proved the other day where he W'd Flashed DFG'd Q'd R and killed Voyboy, then hit W again and was 4 miles away.
    I was Charmed by Ahri yesterday by her using ult (in fow) flashing to me and ulting again to land undodgable close ranged Charm and obliterating me with DFG>Q>W>
    iginte>R away to safety. If someone needs to use flash to be 4 miles away or to execute some sick shit, it's understandable, but Lee can do these things on much shorter CD

  18. #39158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Anyone think Yasuo W will be nerfed soon?
    Nerfed, no, reworked, yes.

    You can't have an ability that occasionally works in the third dimension in a clearly two-dimensional game.
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  19. #39159
    Picked up Darius today, after not playing him for like 6 months, and damn he's so much fun! Only downside is he's so easy to gank early game.. After he hit 6 though, if people decide to give him double kill, by all means gank him. So much fun to dig up something old! Getting tired of the 'meta' for top..
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  20. #39160
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    The 'meta' exists only in people's head.

    Top has seen Ryze, Jax, Jayce, Shyvana, Lee Sin, Dr Mundo, Warwick, Renekton, Trundle, Gragas, LeBlanc, Garen and Lulu from the top of my head. Quite sure I missed a few.

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