The League of Legends thread

[Duronos]

You play this game a lot and you don't know how far things actually go? Mate that's a player issue not a Riot isn't doing their job issue.

[Charge me Doctor]

No, i play this game not a lot actually, it's like, 10 games per week, but i do know how far some things actually go, but range indicators should show exact range of spells, while many of them don't actually do that, it's obviously not players problem if range indicator is confusing or do not provide all information needed to precisely connect spells.
How is the difference between actual range of spell and indicated range of spell is the players problem? Isn't it the problem of who modeled these indicators? Aka, riot employee?

I do not want to guess if this can connect (it actually does, while arrow doesn't imply that it should connect because, well, it's a fucking arrow, not a rectangle), and i do not want to guess what actual hitboxes of champions and skillshots are, i want it to be either clear via tools that they provide for gameplay, or custom game mode that can give me these tools to play around and get better understanding of these things


I hope they will add better indicators for spells (like they did with Anivia Q) eventually

[Axethor]

You can convey direction with a box; see Lux's ultimate.

Lux ult doesn't have a travel time and as such you only need to know the area of effect. I guess just saying the arrow conveys direction left me open to a response like this, but the arrow conveys direction and movement, an important part of what makes a skill shot a skill shot.

then why don't put a box around this arrow? I mean, Smite does fine with this, and this game is like, the only game that didn't confused me with hitboxes and skillshots? It seems that they sacrifice gameplay clarity for visuals, they should have an option for this, as well as proper damage taken meter on death and hitboxes, or at least tool that you can use outside of the game that gives you these options (i would also love to have some sort of mesh-map to look at, just to see where and how to use dashes/flashes/wards for their max effect).

Box around the arrow could work, yes, but is it needed? Remember, visual feedback not only has to be clear, but also look good and not out of place. Every skill shot arrow is the width of the skill shot up until the point. Riot loves to hide their info within the games design so you can unconsciously pick up on it. Every wall you can flash over looks flashable and the same goes for the opposite. In fact, with the SR revamp Riot fixed many of the walls that broke that design goal. They also will move your character father than flash's or a dash's range as long as the wall itself is smaller or equal to the range of flash/the dash. It's so you don't need these dev-mode meshes and hitboxes.

As for info on what happens when you died, Riot's been working on fixing their death info screen for a while so hopefully they will fix it sometime this century.

Doesn't seem to, things like Vel'Kozs' E (ground-targeted AoEs) require you to hit the center of hitbox it seems, and some skillshots do not connect edge-to-edge (LB chains, Morgana snare), but center-to-edge instead (Blitz Hook), this info should be up somewhere. Fair enough, but we should have an option to turn them on and off (or special custom game mod where you can turn them on), or at least read about their size and/or radius, this info shouldn't be hidden. Dota allow you to turn on a small circle under your feet to see your hitbox (the selection hitbox is still hidden tho), but it also gives you tool to see both of them and it's very nice if you want to master your champion.

Spell effects and spell hitboxes are two different things. A lot of Riot's spell effects stretch slightly beyond their hitboxes so the player getting hit always knows what happened. Vel'koz W goes outside it's area of effect so the part that looks like it does damage is actually dealing damage, not the tendrils of void light on the sides. The hitbox for Blitz grab is located in the middle of his hand so the enemy knows for sure they got grabbed. It's still all edge to edge for the game, but visually the effects overcompensate for clarity on the end of the receiving player, not necessarily the player using the spell. Going back to the skill shot indicators though, if they are in range of the indicator, they will get hit. That's what they are there for, to help players who don't necessarily know them.

As for what Dota 2 does, I would like to add that Dota 2 is also incredibly bad at visually explaining what happens to you or another player at any moment in time and Valve is much more receptive to modding and letting players know the hidden information like hitboxes.

[Charge me Doctor]

Box around the arrow could work, yes, but is it needed? Remember, visual feedback not only has to be clear, but also look good and not out of place. Every skill shot arrow is the width of the skill shot up until the point. Riot loves to hide their info within the games design so you can unconsciously pick up on it. Every wall you can flash over looks flashable and the same goes for the opposite. In fact, with the SR revamp Riot fixed many of the walls that broke that design goal. They also will move your character father than flash's or a dash's range as long as the wall itself is smaller or equal to the range of flash/the dash. It's so you don't need these dev-mode meshes and hitboxes.

As for info on what happens when you died, Riot's been working on fixing their death info screen for a while so hopefully they will fix it sometime this century.



Spell effects and spell hitboxes are two different things. A lot of Riot's spell effects stretch slightly beyond their hitboxes so the player getting hit always knows what happened. Vel'koz W goes outside it's area of effect so the part that looks like it does damage is actually dealing damage, not the tendrils of void light on the sides. The hitbox for Blitz grab is located in the middle of his hand so the enemy knows for sure they got grabbed. It's still all edge to edge for the game, but visually the effects overcompensate for clarity on the end of the receiving player, not necessarily the player using the spell. Going back to the skill shot indicators though, if they are in range of the indicator, they will get hit. That's what they are there for, to help players who don't necessarily know them.

As for what Dota 2 does, I would like to add that Dota 2 is also incredibly bad at visually explaining what happens to you or another player at any moment in time and Valve is much more receptive to modding and letting players know the hidden information like hitboxes.

Then they should make a box-shaped indicator to look good and not out of place, it's not really a crazy work to do, and the current "arrow" is not really an arrow, it's more like box that morphs into an arrow for some reason. And if we go for looking good and not out of place, why don't they make custom indicator for all champions? Because blue arrow for, Xerath Q doesn't fit his theme, shouldn't it be a beam (freaking rectangle) instead? I mean, Aatrox E is hands down justifiable to have arrow-shaped indicator, because that's how it works, but why everyone else uses an arrow-shape escapes my mind.

So, you think they deliberately hide crucial information from players? Why didn't they went dota-way of these things then? Like, no indicators at all? If they made them they should be reliable, either there was no point to make them at all.

Flashing over walls is quite explainable and understandable, look at this comparison of old to new map, they deliberately changed the mesh to make it easier to flash over it (remember that you need to cover only half+1 units of obstacle or a wall to game engine to push you out to other side), it's not the case of walls being "flashable", it's usage of angles of aim of your flash and range of it, the same with wards. I do need these mesh boxes to see for spots where i can reach out things or make more non-obvious flashes and stuff, there is no reason to hide them, and they could be useful to some people, that's why i think they should be accessible.

Yep, it takes a lot of time for some reason, i hope it will happen.

I believe that's not the case, that's the case of visual distortion and pseudo-3d graphics, the further you aim from center to the edge of screen, the less correct the "projection" of aim indicator on the ground.
Things going outside of its indicated range is a very bad thing actually, if it's the case, if the actual case if edge-to-edge hit tracking then it should be noted on a skill tooltip or on wiki of some sort.

Where can i find the hitbox for blitz grab? It seems that hitbox is located at his shadow location (and for me it's freaking annoying because i play without shadows).

That's good point, can't argue with that, but on the flip side, it creates confusion with things getting hit while being outside of indicated range

[Noxina]

Another thing to take into consideration if you feel your spell should hit, but didnt; MS. The player you are trying to hit might be on the other side of Europe, so the actual data might take a couple of milliseconds to travel. So many times I've thought my Thresh hook wouldnt hit, but it hit anyways, and vice versa.

I see no problem at seeing the hit box of the arrows though, the arrow is as wide as the spell, and the pointy end shows what direction it goes and that it actually travels and dont just appear (Lux ult), so the target can dodge it. It works for millions of players, I'm sure it would work just fine for you, I really don't feel it is a design problem. I can't even say I noticed that when I started to play this game ages ago.

[Charge me Doctor]

Another thing to take into consideration if you feel your spell should hit, but didnt; MS. The player you are trying to hit might be on the other side of Europe, so the actual data might take a couple of milliseconds to travel. So many times I've thought my Thresh hook wouldnt hit, but it hit anyways, and vice versa.

I see no problem at seeing the hit box of the arrows though, the arrow is as wide as the spell, and the pointy end shows what direction it goes and that it actually travels and dont just appear (Lux ult), so the target can dodge it. It works for millions of players, I'm sure it would work just fine for you, I really don't feel it is a design problem. I can't even say I noticed that when I started to play this game ages ago.

Actually it makes that small difference for ms of 30-50, it's like, enemy that moves away from you at 500 movement speed ends up only ~ 25 units further away due to 50 ms ping if i do math right. On the other hand, 150-250 ms ping can be devastating for landing shit. I guess riot have addressed this issue well, i haven't noticed any major latency-related problems, but i believe they have a room to exist with how fast paced game is.

The arrow shape is missleading, i understand that after using spell couple of times you'll get used to it, but why do you have to use it couple of times when it could be a fine and reliable indicator by itself?
What was the reason, who made that weird decision to shape it as an arrow? Was it just to make it pretty? Well, they could make it more pretty by drawing indicator exclusively for each character, look at this, they are perfect, they give you (almost, there is no projectile speed, but i'll deal with it) all information you need (length, width, direction) while being pretty and fitting the character, if the arrow shape was made for prettiness, well they could do much better.
Was it to make it more simple? What is more simple than a rectangular? Arrow shape is more complicated than a freaking rectangular.
Was it to make it confusing? I doubt that, it's like saying that WoW wants to be hardcore. LoL was easier to get and more accessible for players, that's why it got so popular (also boobs) and that's why it is so awesome.
I bet that this indicator is a mistake, and riot don't want to change it because many people are got used to it and will be upset for (even QoL) change. The hell, i remember people complaining about Anivia Q indicator being changed.

I'm sure there is millions of players who were confused by it, and i'm sure that there is millions of new players that will be confused by them, and there is millions of players who pick new character and keep missing shit because they actually think that skillshot is arrow-shaped, because they believe that they actually see.

TL;DR: the current indicator is outdated for some champions, many champions should have the Anivia Q (or Vayne and Poppy E) treatment, others should have their own indicators (like Aatrox) to represent how skillshot is going to behave. They should get rid of this inconsistency in their spell indicators (Xerath Q is a instant beam that have arrow-shaped indicator, while Lucians Q is a instant beam that have rectangular indicator). It's not like they don't have technology or artists to make it work, it seems that they are either afraid of it, or lazy, or have it in mind but this amount of work requires major patch of some sort.

[Axethor]

Honest answer? I think it was done for the skillshots that can have variable or chargeable length. The arrow looks really good when you dynamically re-size it in game. Much better than a simple box.

[Noxina]

They could always make a box with an arrow inside.. :P
^sick paint skills.

- - - Updated - - -

And I dissagree that they should spend time on arrow design really, rather make the spells awesome looking! The arrow is something you see for like 0.5 seconds if you play the champion, the spell effect is something you will notice no matter if you play or is against/on team with the champion, and is as me - used to range/charge time, so I never look at the arrow while it loads anyways..

If they however had spare time, why not. But again, I see no reason for making it champion unique.

[4KhazModan]

They could always make a box with an arrow inside.. :P
^sick paint skills.

Isn't that how it works for Thresh's Flay? It's a box with arrows inside pointing in the direction of the Flay.

[Axethor]

Isn't that how it works for Thresh's Flay? It's a box with arrows inside pointing in the direction of the Flay.

Thresh's flay is also not really a skillshot. It's more of an AoE centered on him that pushes/pulls you in a direction. While yes, it could work for skill shots, it's not easily expandable like the current arrow and would need to be remade for every current and future skillshot in the game.

[Noxina]

Thresh's flay is also not really a skillshot. It's more of an AoE centered on him that pushes/pulls you in a direction. While yes, it could work for skill shots, it's not easily expandable like the current arrow and would need to be remade for every current and future skillshot in the game.

Indeed, it is wasted resources to go and fix something that minor really..

[Charge me Doctor]

Garen ult is lackluster compared to Darius', its kill threshold is very low, the only "thing" Garen is is being damage soaking unstoppable juggernaut and i personally fine with it. I can barely see any problems with Garens' gameplay (tho, it gets boring quite fast because there is little to nothing to do except using your movement properly, which is quite hard) outside of his ult being outdated "if target has less than 300 hp it dies", all of his other skills are cool. He is not a champion of Darius, Riven or Heca kind, he is champion of Singed, Volibear or Sion kind, and for his role his kit is quite fitting. Except ult, because its bullshit.

[Ergar]

I personally don't really have problem with the ult. Yeah it's kinda boring, but i still like it. I just compare it to necro ult from dota 2 (or whatever the scythe man's name was). It's weird how such a boring ult can be one of the most awesome looking spells in the game though (if not the most awesome).

[Charge me Doctor]

Don't compare it to Necros ult, Necro ult is ultimate removal, its kill threshold when fully upgraded with Aghs is above 50% health, also you have to remember that there is almost no way to decrease its damage (base resist can be removed by Veil and there is only 2 or 3 items to increase your resistance), and most importantly, it stuns your target and damage is released and calculated at the end of a stun, basically you drop it not to kill target, but to lock it down and then kill. It also blocks buyback and increases time to revive by 30 seconds. It feels very powerful, and it is, Garens ult is just "meh" gameplay-wise, but it looks very cool, for its looks it should deal A LOT more damage, probably it's time when riot at least give its some scaling

[Firebert]

Silver V! Yay!

Heimerdinger's Ambassadors, though...

[Noxina]

Facebook picture; NURF?

So by the looks of it they are talking about: New Ultra Rapid Fire - NURF. Are we getting what we have asked (cried) for, or will they screw it up by doing something different with it?

[Deleted]

Jesus am I fed up with the Bard hate in fucking NORMAL games. You could havethe most useless AFK Gragas Top with Smite and they'll still blame a 0/0/100000 Bard for losing the game.

I fucking like the champ, I'm playing it.

[Deleted]

I don't think it's just Bard, it's just, you know, always someone else's fault if you suck :P

[Deleted]

bard is still not a very good support overall

he has a lot of utility, but other supports can do his jobs better
he is split between a bunch of support roles, meaning he can do a little bit of everything but not everything well
so people rather want a support that can do one thing but do that one thing very well

lots of other supports can CC more than him, Heal more than him and provide more to a teamfight than he does, but not all at once tho

seems like he's getting more buffs

Recent Bard changes on PBE:

Attack range increased to 550 from 500
Base damage increased to 52 from 46
Damager per level growth increased to 3.5 from 3
Base armor increased to 25 from 21
Travel's Call (Passive) Meeps: A new meep appears every 10 down from 12
Traveler's Call (Passive) Chimes: mana restore changed to 12% max mana from (8% missing mana + 15)
Cosmic Binding (Q) damage increased to 80/125/170/215/260 from 80/120/160/200/240
Cosmic Binding (Q) AP ratio increased to .65 from .5
Magical Journey (E) mana cost reduced to 0 at all ranks from 30


hopefully this will get him out there

[Charge me Doctor]

Jesus am I fed up with the Bard hate in fucking NORMAL games. You could havethe most useless AFK Gragas Top with Smite and they'll still blame a 0/0/100000 Bard for losing the game.

I fucking like the champ, I'm playing it.

I've got 7 "report bard"s in all chat from the same ally in normal game. He lost his lane completely (0/7/1) as Kata vs Viktor and admitted that its his first time as Kata and that's why he went for normal game, and every single time i use my ult to save someone (i was surprisingly good at it) he spammed report bard. At some point he even told "man you should play normals not rankeds when you play champ for a first time", i was like, wtf?

I'm still not convinced with Bard, new buff will most likely make me play him, because the thing that annoys me the most (mana cost E and very low AA damage) is gone