Video Games as a Work of Art

[Fuzzykins]

So, this was inspired by the recent release and planning of games that are just incredible.
First, allow me to take you back, to roughly 1972. Technology has hit it's first breakthrough. The dawn of a new age has begun. The dawn of....video games. In 1972, Allan Alcorn of Atari built the first video game, Pong. The game it's self was a simple reactive based physics game.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../f/f8/Pong.png
There wasn't much in the graphics department, but at it's time, it was a work of wonder. Video games have advanced so far from this point.

Even from Pong to that, the graphics are an improvement. And that is the topic of discussion in this thread.
Allow me to present to you two game trailers.
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Crysis 2
Both of these games are incredible displays of modern technology. Crysis 2 is currently out for the PC/Ps3/Xbox360. Crysis is a legacy that is known to bring computers to their knees. The original Crysis was a revolution of technology. It was the first game to include graphics that were absolutely awe inspiring. Shadows were reactive, gun shots created brilliant light shows, smoke, fire, and particles drifted too and fro, mimicking real physical properties. Crysis 2 has expanded on that, creating an immersive environment, not just a game, for the player. As the opening title suggests, the game was not created through CryEngine3, it was achieved through CryEngine3.
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is another example of a world created within a virtual environment. Watching the trailer, fire effects are brilliant, the graphics are astonishing, fully developed villages and interactive NPCs exist. Not only is the artwork beautiful, but the interactive NPC's help create a more immersive world for the player.

Which brings me on to the Tl;Dr...
What do you think as video games as a work of art? What components do you think can be considered artwork? Maybe the combat/skill system? The control scheme? The graphics? Or maybe the NPC interactivity? Do people play video games based on concept or artwork?

Minecraft is a new game, and incredibly trending. Profiting more than most modern games, Minecraft takes the graphics of a simple, early generation game, but adds so many features to entice the player.

Will you ever play a game to enjoy the environment? Would you play a game with awful graphics but a great concept system? Would this still be considered art?

The definition of art per regards to this thread:

art–noun
1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2.
the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3.
a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.

[Terenas Menethil]

Will you ever play a game to enjoy the environment? Would you play a game with awful graphics but a great concept system? Would this still be considered art?

If a game doesn't have an environment I enjoy, it's usually a deal-breaker. Minecraft is a perfect example of "awful" (although they're great honestly) graphics but great concept and I thoroughly enjoy it. I'd say video games can be considered an art, easily.

[noahjam326]

Just to add some more depth to the discussion; but you should also include aesthetics. Graphics only covers the quality, aesthetics is more the art style. WoW certainly does not have the best graphics, but I would say it's a very good looking game because of the art style they have chosen. I would call WoW art just for their application of stylized art.

[BatteredRose]

Will you ever play a game to enjoy the environment? Would you play a game with awful graphics but a great concept system? Would this still be considered art?

Yes, yes, and yes.

[Fuzzykins]

Just to add some more depth to the discussion; but you should also include aesthetics. Graphics only covers the quality, aesthetics is more the art style. WoW certainly does not have the best graphics, but I would say it's a very good looking game because of the art style they have chosen. I would call WoW art just for their application of stylized art.

I disagree. I hate World of Warcraft's graphic style and feel it detracts from the environment. I think it's due time for an engine update. The forests aren't forests. I play on max settings, and would love a degree of realism to the graphics, but I feel I'll never get it. (Which is why I quit.) That's just my opinion though, this shouldn't be an "Are World of Warcraft's Graphics Good" discussion.

[Eon Drache]

WoW is really outdated in the graphics. However, it remains the most profitable MMO because of its game-play, lore, and immense world.

Lore, is a story, and easily considered art in its own form. There is no doubt that the story in WoW doesn't follow any specific character. It explores the entire world. You can find info on the npc in Brill to the King of Stormwind City. Along with many tales and epic fights from past lore figures like Uther, and Durotan.

The Game world. Everything in Azeroth flows. It is a shame that Northrend and Outland aren't updated for events that happened in the last 2 expansions, but sometime they will. The world is art. It gives you the mental image needed to show you the hard work went into it.

How it works. The combat system. Yes, the classes are becoming a lot more alike, however, the game-play is still beautiful.

The picture isn't what the art is. Every picture says 1000 words. The words are the true art in any creative piece.

[Dorkins]

A game can be great with either good graphics or good gameplay. What makes legendary games is having both(for the time).

[Penguin FTW]

In a very technical sense, at the most basic level video games have to because music, backgrounds, etc. are all unequivocally art forms, and combined to create something more in video games. A painting viewed on a computer screen is still art.

Books are art, right? It's a creation from somebody's imagination conveyed in a way to make you think or feel specific things - that's art. There was a time when video games were text only, so from this aspect they have to be considered art. Adding layers and depth shouldn't take away from that fact.

and some other thoughts along those lines


somewhat related: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...tive-Mechanics

[Medic Fenix]

Just wanted to point out that although pong was the first successful commercial video game it was hardly the first video game. Many consider "Tennis for Two" the first true video game. I'd post a link to the wikipedia article but I created an account to reply to this thread.

Also to chime in on the actual topic. I do feel that games can be art, but for me to classify a game as art it has to fit the definition of art.

Art: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

So for me, a game must touch me on an emotional level before I will consider it art. (Sorry Mario Party, you ain't art)

[Thatguywiththehat]

Art games? Psychonaughts, Icho, and Shadow of The Collosus, Portal, etc.

[Fuzzykins]

A game can be great with either good graphics or good gameplay. What makes legendary games is having both(for the time).

Good way to put it.
I think if Skyrim does the combat system right, then it may be the next legendary game. (Taking it's place next to Crysis, and only Crysis.)

[Penguin FTW]

(Sorry Mario Party, you ain't art)

This is art, http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...09-d39ju7h.png

But this isn't? http://images.nintendolife.com/scree...7986/large.jpg

How the hell do you explain that

[Deleted]

Well Crysis 2 was pretty easy to run even on PC's that weren't that good. Crysis 1 was very hard too run for it's time back then though.

I'm hoping he same will go for Skyrim, but since it's more open world, and the dynamic is so big I think my pc will eat itself running it on max. I think Skyrim will amaze us just like Oblivion did back in the days.

[Yooya]

Level Design, and all of the fields that feed into it, are definitely art. Lush landscapes and vivid cities in a virtual-world are no different then a painting, or scene in a movie.

[Fuzzykins]

Well Crysis 2 was pretty easy to run even on PC's that weren't that good. Crysis 1 was very hard too run for it's time back then though.

I'm hoping he same will go for Skyrim, but since it's more open world, and the dynamic is so big I think my pc will eat itself running it on max. I think Skyrim will amaze us just like Oblivion did back in the days.

I'll be running Skyrim @ Max settings. <3
Anyway, I don't think some games can be considered art.
The time and emotion doesn't go through from the developer's part into the creation of the game. There could be a vision there, but if the vision isn't truly realized on behalf of the developers, it's failed in the art aspect.
Also, there can be poor music, just look at Rebecca Black. No one in their right mind would consider that good music. (Sorry.) Not that there's a lot of games that use Rebecca Black in their music, but also, let's look at it this way.
There's certain elements of a video game that can detract from the original intention of the developers.
Such as but not including: Music that doesn't fit the environment in which it's staged in, graphical development in the wrong places (hey cool, my character looks fantastic, but is that supposed to be grass or a tree?), and combat system/AI systems that are completely counteractive. There's 100 things that need to be right with a video game for it to be considered good, but really, there can only be a few things wrong until it's considered bad.

[Medic Fenix]

This is art, [link removed]

But this isn't? [link removed]

How the hell do you explain that

Truthfully, I don't consider either of them art. I can see talent in the drawing, and know first hand what 3d modeling entails when polygon counts matter. I appreciate the effort that went into each, but neither is evocative. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying games can't be art. Shadow of the Colossus is a fine example of art in a video game. (one of my favorite games too.) Also I don't consider every painting, movie, book, or song to be art either. I draw a line between art and entertainment. My example of Mario Party is an example of what i consider entertainment. I play that game and do enjoy spending time with friends stealing their stars, but the game doesn't move me, nor does it fill me with awe, or overwhelm me at it's beauty.

I should also point out that I have a long history of theater, sculpture, and an undergrad degree in Media Arts focused on interactive systems designs. I point this out not to say I'm an expert. I'm not. Simply to illustrate I look at this question from a different angle than most.

As an aside I do believe video games need to be defined as an art form under the first amendment even though I only consider a handful to be deserving of such a title.

p.s. If you'd like to discuss further feel free to PM me, I'd hate to derail such a good topic any further

[Fuzzykins]

Truthfully, I don't consider either of them art. I can see talent in the drawing, and know first hand what 3d modeling entails when polygon counts matter. I appreciate the effort that went into each, but neither is evocative. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying games can't be art. Shadow of the Colossus is a fine example of art in a video game. (one of my favorite games too.) Also I don't consider every painting, movie, book, or song to be art either. I draw a line between art and entertainment. My example of Mario Party is an example of what i consider entertainment. I play that game and do enjoy spending time with friends stealing their stars, but the game doesn't move me, nor does it fill me with awe, or overwhelm me at it's beauty.

I should also point out that I have a long history of theater, sculpture, and an undergrad degree in Media Arts focused on interactive systems designs. I point this out not to say I'm an expert. I'm not. Simply to illustrate I look at this question from a different angle than most.

As an aside I do believe video games need to be defined as an art form under the first amendment even though I only consider a handful to be deserving of such a title.

p.s. If you'd like to discuss further feel free to PM me, I'd hate to derail such a good topic any further

Not derailing the topic if you're talking about the difference between a drawn piece of art and a video game. (:

[Penguin FTW]

So paintings etc. aren't art until they evoke emotion? By that definition I've never seen a painting or sculpture or drawing that is art.

The definition of a word can't be subjective, that defeats the point :3

And no, I won't PM you to discuss the topic of this thread so that no one else can contribute >.<

[namelessone]

If video games aren't art - neither would be most of today's visual arts, movies, literature and music.

[Medic Fenix]

So paintings etc. aren't art until they evoke emotion? By that definition I've never seen a painting or sculpture or drawing that is art.

The definition of a word can't be subjective, that defeats the point :3

And no, I won't PM you to discuss the topic of this thread so that no one else can contribute >.<

But art by it's very nature is a subjective field. When I think if art is indeed art I think like Potter Thomas who said, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." Keep in mind he was talking on a case as to whether or not porn was an art form and therefore free speech.

What I take away from that is that if you have rarely been moved by a painting or sculpture then they aren't art to you. I feel that a piece has to transcend the medium and be digested by the audience and only the audience can dictate if it's art.

Art is many things to many people. The OP asked if we thought video games were art. My view; Yeah, sometimes.