Graphics versus Aesthetics and why I don't like Rift, Conan, SWtOR, Darkfall, etc.

[eucatastrophe]

Well I don't think the characters look hideous. I personally don't see this major stand-out that you're talking about. I look at the videos and screenshots and don't see that. Your entire point of "the characters in WoW fit the environment while standing out." When I look at SWTOR I see that very same thing. That's why artistic taste can not be used as a metric.

As an aside; all the streams are on the lowest graphic settings possible.

Let me put it this way: I find the environments to be stunning, and the characters to be functional. This mixture enhances the characters' flaws for me.
Having said that I won't make definite claims until I see actual game footage.

And good to know about the stream quality.

[Conscious]

Seriously: shut the hell up and actually play a god-damned game, you talk the talk but you don't walk the walk. You might find *GASP* you actually enjoy it, and it being the next Mona Lisa isn't so important after all! So put your money where your mouth is and go out and actually PLAY SOMETHING.

Cut it down so we don't destroy this page..

But + God damn 1.

Well thought out opinions, are contrary to popular belief, still not facts.

---------- Post added 2011-06-08 at 06:12 PM ----------

The thing is that if a game lacks graphics it have a gameplay as backup.. sadly SWTOR lacks both.

Based on what?

Citation please.

Oh wait! That's just you spreading misinformation!

[Deleted]

What a long winded way of saying "Art is subjective, and means something different to every single person on earth."

Bashing one game on graphics while extolling the virtues of another game on graphics is crazy talk. While you think that the next guy over will think you're an idiot. Thats art for you...

[Lefuu]

Based on what?

Citation please.

Oh wait! That's just you spreading misinformation!

Graphics are bad, if you say otherwise you're blind. There are various gameplay videos and they streamed a bit aswell, it's obvious. If it goes live like that its a big disappointment.

Gameplay is WoW's copy pasted trinity with Star Wars twist. You can't strafe and move freely while in combat, you're always facing your current target, it's been discussed over and over again. They don't bring anything new to the table... voice acting? Same as GW2.. if they're the one they're competing with but i honestly doubt.

Their best shot is to steal as many WoW players as they can, the same thing Rift is trying since day 1. Personal story? Nothing new, you will be flooded with countless story line quests that serve no real purpose at the end of the day.
Companions are awkward feature and out of it's place, npc names on screen and nameplates are gigantic and out of its place aswell. You can't swim either. UI is a huge letdown aswell, controls and gameplay are not smooth either.

Would like to see them succeed, the more competition means more pressure on the other gaming companies and it's more and better stuff for everyone but i just don't see them doing anything remotely interesting besides having every npc voice acted and branching dialog.

They took as many WoW features as they could, to attract the audience and let them play what they're familiar with me thinks, we'll see how that goes.. but yeah, graphics as it is now are huge disaster.

[noahjam326]

Let me put it this way: I find the environments to be stunning, and the characters to be functional. This mixture enhances the characters' flaws for me.
Having said that I won't make definite claims until I see actual game footage.

And good to know about the stream quality.

That's kind of my point though. I don't see these flaws you're mentioning. And yes, at the end of the stream they outright say "We had to turn all the graphics to low otherwise the stream would be extremely poor quality." I think he even goes to mention a few specific graphic options.

@Lefuu: More evidence of my point. See, this kind of poster refuses to accept the fact that his opinion is not interchangeable with facts. This is the kind of poster that will make fun of, and talk down to anybody that does not share his opinion. His first sentence is obvious proof of that. This kind of poster is the one who basically squelches all discussion of this topic. These kind of responses are why "we can't have nice things."

Graphics are bad, if you say otherwise you're blind. There are various gameplay videos and they streamed a bit aswell, it's obvious. If it goes live like that its a big disappointment.

Opinion. With ad hominem for icing.

You can't strafe and move freely while in combat, you're always facing your current target, it's been discussed over and over again.

Completely false.

[Hylian]

Thumbs up to the OP. I agree completely with all the MMO related points you made. I cant speak directly to RIFT but according to your post and some others I have read it suffers from the same illness that Aion has which I own and stopped playing after the free month expired.

Aion, much like RIFT looks amazing. The textures glistening with polish all pretty to the eye but there was something that just seemed wrong about it. I believe that my problem was also with the aesthetics of the game because I really don't have much of a problem with the grind-fest that Aion was/is. I believe it was their goal to have ultra-high end fancy graphics and they wanted to make sure everything, everywhere was showcasing off their amazing engine and I believe it is here where they lost me.

for instance, there is a large forested area in the game I remember questing through and even though it looked great I recall it not being the forest that I was envisioning in my mind.

It is my opinion that if you want to create ultra-real graphics that look as much as real life can be then you better make sure that those graphics are presented in such a fashion that they are believable.

Animation are huge to me as well and this is where I will bring in SWTOR. You are right the animations seem a little odd but the game graphically (ingame)looks fine to me. From what I have seen the graphics are not trying to be ultra realistic, they have their own style which I like for the moment. Assuming the art style remains consistent the animations are where I believe I will be won or lost when this game ships.

[Lefuu]

Completely false.

You are locked by always directly facing your current target

[Digglett]

(not running CLOSE to max settings)
To summarise - yes it does.
The art style may not be to everyone's liking but to make inane claims is just stupid. And typical but one would hope that people would grow up and dig deeper past their stupid personal reservations.

Still ugly to me.

[noahjam326]

You are locked by always directly facing your current target

100% False. They Devs released something almost a month or 2 ago saying completely otherwise. That was a rumor started by a 5 second clip from ages ago. Rumors are not facts.

[Tore]

Just so people know, the Target Lock On has been toggle-able since they received feedback about it at PAX East.

[Edge-]

Just so people know, the Target Lock On has been toggle-able since they received feedback about it at PAX East.

Stop! You're going to shatter his little world of truth! You will prove to him that all truth is subjective, proving Nietzsche correct about everything he claimed! The world will devolve till the last man is all that is left!

[eucatastrophe]

Still ugly to me.

Just the way your opinion is still irrelevant.

[Edge-]

blarg I hate messing up posts

[akts]

Thank You for reading.

Well written, man.

[jvbastel]

@OP: After reading the entire post, I wonder what your point is.

-You say rift's art style fails because "the first areas look depressing and the animations look robotic". You also didn't like the hairstyles Really? You base the entire art style of a game on the first two areas (they look dark and depressing because there's a war going on in those areas, hell the defiant starting zone is set in a post-apocalyptic world, and you travel back in time to fix everything) Animations in rift don't look worse than in wow imo, people seem to consider wow's animations as outstanding, while melee combat in wow looks goddamn awful.

-Same goes to TOR, I don't really see the degree of hyper-realism you say is in the game, it's a cartoonish style, similar to wow, but with better graphics.

-on the other hand, you say GW2 is so much better than those games regarding art style. While I agree that the gw concept art team is probably unmatched in the mmo-landscape, gw2 graphics also have some issues. Look at the (awesome ) lion's arch video and check the movement animations.

In the end, art style (aesthetics) is a personal preference, and is closely tied to the lore behind games. This thread just feels like a disguised attempt to bash certain games, while hyping others.

[Deleted]

[Poodles]

Hit the nail on the head.

I'll go even farther though. Fantastic graphics are a crutch these days. The graphics engines are getting so good that the next "awesome" game looks no better than the last one, and then when it gets down to actual gameplay there is no substance.

What's even better about WoW is look closely at the cities. There is not a single right angle in Stormwind. Noting is perfectly straight, nothing is perfect at all. It's made to look like a painting, not like a technical drawing. That's where the actual art is.

Also of note with modern games is consistancy. WoW may be made by a large team, but it looks like it was painted by one artist. I can look at a lot of games and pick out what art assets were made by different people because of art style, technic, or just simple quality.

The last brand new game I played that I actually really really enjoyed was Crysis 2, and I know someone on the dev team. Back before he got into making retail games, he worked on mods for games and we had discussions about these very principles of game design.

I could go on and on (HUD design in FPS games, net code, bloom effects, field of vision, depth of field, etc)

[voidillusion]

I don't get this, a couple of years ago, WoW's graphics were too cartoonish and basic at the eyes of some, i distinctly recall ppl raising voices saying that the graphics needed to be improved and even some blue posts regarding this.

Now, by some miracle, they are the best thing in the world right next to baby jesus.

Personally i always liked and still like WoW's graphics, they are cartoonish and they fit the game well.

The same way i like Rift's graphics, they are more realistic and gore.

Both have flaws, and neither is perfect. I just don't understand the need of bashing this game or that. Just play what you want and what makes you spend a good time, isnt this what's it all about?