1. #1

    Cloth gear from Firelands

    After looking throught the gear lists from Firelands. It seems like there is very little (I think none) spirit/haster or even hit/haste gear available from the raid bosses.

    As shadow how are we supposed to get hit capped without sacrificing haste?

  2. #2
    I don't think it's an issue with reforging although haste items certainly seem to be a bit rarer than in the current tier... Wowhead's PTR DB shows only 17 items with haste and int that a priest can wear, for example. Notably absent are any rings at all... the Exalted ring from Avengers is haste/hit though, an obvious keeper. And by ilvl and reforging, given the lack of 378 haste + hit/spirit rings, the spirit/mastery ring at exalted from Avengers will probably be our other ring... assuming the unique-equipped rules don't apply here (they might).

    They also might not be done itemizing? Two weeks away, seems like they should be pretty close though.

  3. #3
    The Patient Leaftwig's Avatar
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    Aren't there two crafted spirit/haste items?
    I could have bet my breakfast on it :/
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  4. #4
    Datamined info shows two crafted Spirit/Haste pieces from Tailoring. Maybe they were included in Shartadin's list but at the least, they're solid pieces that you can craft/have crafted as soon as you gather 8 Living Ember (the new raid-based Chaos Orb, by all guesses).

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  5. #5
    Well there was a recent post that said when they itemize for new tiers they don't try to make perfect items for every spec in the game and in various tiers some specs will find it easier to get their stats and others will find it harder. They do it sort of intentionally because they want us to have to make choices about our gear and not just a certain piece from each boss.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Well there was a recent post that said when they itemize for new tiers they don't try to make perfect items for every spec in the game and in various tiers some specs will find it easier to get their stats and others will find it harder. They do it sort of intentionally because they want us to have to make choices about our gear and not just a certain piece from each boss.
    Basically this. You'll be able to do haste/spirit in almost every main armor slot, except maybe 2 to go 4p t12 (and there's no debating you'll want to do that).

    Then if we can use both the 391 rep rings (I think we'd want the spirit/mastery one just based on stat values of a 391, since other stat combinations not involving haste won't be much better unless crit just gets massively inflated by the changes), we're in great shape hit-wise after all of that. Given that I've heard no indication of the hit cap being raised or the value per rating of hit dropped (the more likely of the two) as was mentioned once in the past by a blue, stat inflation will make it very easy to get hit capped this tier.

    TL;DR: Don't worry about it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shartadin View Post
    Given that I've heard no indication of the hit cap being raised or the value per rating of hit dropped (the more likely of the two) as was mentioned once in the past by a blue, stat inflation will make it very easy to get hit capped this tier.
    I think there was also a recent blue post that said basically they do still plan on doing this, but that it won't happen with every tier of content. I'll see if I can find that post.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Well there was a recent post that said when they itemize for new tiers they don't try to make perfect items for every spec in the game and in various tiers some specs will find it easier to get their stats and others will find it harder. They do it sort of intentionally because they want us to have to make choices about our gear and not just a certain piece from each boss.
    The only problem with this is it is a specific class (not counting disc as I don't know what they are after). As holy, I go for haste. I tried the whole 12.5% raid buffed haste and everything else mastery but I get much better results with more haste than that. However, that is not the point of this post, it's about the gear available to us. The bigger problem with this is for a lot of slots there is only 1 and maybe 2 pieces of caster gear. If one of them is spirit/crit and the other is haste/mastery, even as a holy priest the one with haste/mastery is superior (unless the change to crit makes it incredible but I doubt it), but we will have to spread that one drop to every cloth caster in the raid.

  9. #9
    Not to point out the obvious but.... since they don't plan to make perfect items for every spec it is completely within possibilities for an entire class to not have perfect gear. However, iirc Disc wants mastery more than haste and the whole holy mastery vs haste thing is pretty much personal preference. So even if they did purposefully try to make all the gear for each of our specs there would have to be a ton of gear just for us.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Grizzlehorn's Avatar
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    At least we have reforging now... can't really complain compared to back in the day.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    So even if they did purposefully try to make all the gear for each of our specs there would have to be a ton of gear just for us.
    I completely agree that they should not have to do this however, I am more worried about the fact that there will only be one option for all clothies (for cloth obviously) and all casters (for necks, cloaks, rings).

    Another thing is that there are cloth gloves with spirit/haste on them but the teir gloves also have spirit/haste. Now the numbers are slightly different as one has more spirit and less haste than the other but it still seems silly to me to have one of the only offspec cloth items that has spirit on it to be the same second stat as the teir for both holy and shadow. While I agree that having some pieces that we don't have an option with our best stat is a good thing, it would be nice to have an actual option besides whether it has spirit on it or not.

    I am really hoping there are a few more pieces that have not been shown yet.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice View Post
    Another thing is that there are cloth gloves with spirit/haste on them but the teir gloves also have spirit/haste. Now the numbers are slightly different as one has more spirit and less haste than the other but it still seems silly to me to have one of the only offspec cloth items that has spirit on it to be the same second stat as the teir for both holy and shadow. While I agree that having some pieces that we don't have an option with our best stat is a good thing, it would be nice to have an actual option besides whether it has spirit on it or not.
    As it so happens, the spread of items even if they seem sparser this tier I think will be approximately the same, in that you'll be able to have haste in all but maybe 2, 3 at most, slots, in the worst case, and 1-2 of those will be tier items you'd take anyway. I really don't think it's going to be that bad. Every class will have approximately the same problem, I'm guessing.

  13. #13
    For spriests, haste is obviously our best stat, but also keep in mind that we benefit more or less equally well from all the other stats available on our gear. Sure, crit and mastery are a bit below spirit and hit for most, but spriests are sort of a unique spec since we get decent value from any stat on our cloth armor. Yes, it won't be perfectly itemized; yes, stat weights skew our opinions; but we can't expect prefect itemization in every slot or even every tier for most slots.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dharmabhum View Post
    For spriests, haste is obviously our best stat, but also keep in mind that we benefit more or less equally well from all the other stats available on our gear. Sure, crit and mastery are a bit below spirit and hit for most, but spriests are sort of a unique spec since we get decent value from any stat on our cloth armor. Yes, it won't be perfectly itemized; yes, stat weights skew our opinions; but we can't expect prefect itemization in every slot or even every tier for most slots.
    Agreed. And reforging is nice, yo.

    I'm not up to date, but a couple of months ago when I was playing around with my mage, haste and mastery were both extremely bad for them, way below crit/hit. At least gearing it in heroics, the itemization options seemed like complete shit. Edit: I mean fire mage.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shartadin View Post
    Agreed. And reforging is nice, yo.

    I'm not up to date, but a couple of months ago when I was playing around with my mage, haste and mastery were both extremely bad for them, way below crit/hit. At least gearing it in heroics, the itemization options seemed like complete shit. Edit: I mean fire mage.
    Actually, after talking with the fire mage in my guild, they may be going after haste next tier. =| I'm hoping it isn't true, cause if us, locks, AND mages all want haste, people gonna get shanked.

  16. #16
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/compare?items...86:71151:69000

    just a quick collection. 1122 (+75 from chest/legs enchant) + 724 hit = 1921

    that is ABOVE the hitcap, without reforging and short of 1 ring and 1 trinket. and it's NON-heroic

    i don't see a problem at all oO

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    Actually, after talking with the fire mage in my guild, they may be going after haste next tier. =| I'm hoping it isn't true, cause if us, locks, AND mages all want haste, people gonna get shanked.
    Does it have to do with set bonuses? What changed significantly for fire mages?

  18. #18
    Fire mages are built on crit with Hot Streak/Pyro! and that's how things started out. Once raiding gear was more common (i.e. higher stat totals) and ignite munching/not stacking became a bigger problem as damage increased, the turn to haste was made and was only cemented by the amount of movement required in raid encounters this tier (its incredibly hurtful to dps to have to interrupt a fireball cast). But really, crit is still unreliable as a throughput stat compared to (most) mastery and haste. With our basic levels of crit we have without stacking it, being able to pump out more fireballs for more potential procs at Hot Streak became much more desirable.
    ^my take on it through my mage

    Also though, after 4.1 I've seen higher proc rates for the Hot Streak talent (not Improved HS). That and Imp. HS help us keep Pyro up more often so continuing to stack crit for those procs seems less appealing. While that crit will still help us with Ignite (which appears to be slightly less of our damage since the fix to exclude critical DoT ticks) and Imp HS procs, its more advantageous (though less fun for me personally) to cast more rather than see more big numbers and flashy fireballs of pyro death.

    All that being said, haste and crit are still very even for most fire mages IIRC.

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