Healing help (ZA/ZG 5-mans)

[Deleted]

Is it just me who doesn't have trouble with the bear pulls whatsoever? :s

Nope, anyone with a decent group won't have problems. It is not just reliant on the healer but the tank and CC from dps.

[Deleted]

Is it just me who doesn't have trouble with the bear pulls whatsoever? :s

Depends on your and the tanks gear mostly, usually it's a no-brainer but i've seen tanks drop from full health to dead in 2 seconds on that damn pull.

[Pharazon]

The number 1 way to tell if your group is screwing up is whether or not you have two bear mounts to deal with at a time. The Crunch Armor debuff will stack for a whopping 50% reduction to armor which even with cooldowns can be hard to manage. If you take out one rider and mount at a time then tank using cooldowns will be more than enough to handle the fight.

It's also possible with a bear tank that you get extremely lucky and dodge the debuffs entirely.

[ectox]

some bears in ZA gives u a debuff (reducing armor by 50% or 25%) just spam ur regrowth

[Peta]

I am just at 350ilvl and have no problem healing that. I must say i do it easier with my druid than my shammy.
what I do. On the 3 hard packs in there. Rejuv>swifmend and go into normal rot. lifebloom>rejuv>lifebloom>lifebloom And rape the nourish-key. Swiftmend as soon as its off CD (fill as needed with a regrowth). I almost never use HT. Also dont forget yur lifebloom can bloom and heal for a considerable amount if in trouble. No shame in letting it bloom.

[Myrrar]

Is it just me who doesn't have trouble with the bear pulls whatsoever? :s

If you have people who know how to CC and dps that know which mobs to kill 1st it's just another pull. I didn't even know this pull was 'hard' until I did it on an alt in a pug.

[Wollie]

The healer is what makes or breaks the group, do you click? you have slow reflexes? Both those can easivly let the tank die. Believe it or not, if your tanks dieing, its not always his or the dps's fault. If your not terrible and your tank isnt in 333 gear, theres absolutly no reason a tank should die before you OOM.

Best help is just know when to use a big heal, if you see your tank only losing 4-5% of his hp per hit, then see him drop 10%, you should start casting a big heal, worse case you overheal a little bit. Although learning when the damage comes helps too, its very predictable in zg/za. Iv been healing dungeons and raids without CC since wotlk (Blizzard killed it in wotlk and made it clear it was never gonna be needed again) And i never have problems, i havnt wiped in a zg or za pug while healing in a very long time. If the tank isnt taking massive dmg and im not being forced to use big heals, its just no fun. Im also running zg/za heroics on my 346 geared priest, not using CC because its not neccasary, i do have to drink alot, but thats not a problem anyways.

The healer is the group, when a dps dc's, you usally just ignore him and keep pulling, if a tank dc's, you could still pull in some dungeons, if the healer dc's, i doubt the group is gonna pull any time soon.

TL;DR, start blaming the damn healer for being physically slow

[Navene]

The healer is what makes or breaks the group, do you click? you have slow reflexes? Both those can easivly let the tank die. Believe it or not, if your tanks dieing, its not always his or the dps's fault. If your not terrible and your tank isnt in 333 gear, theres absolutly no reason a tank should die before you OOM.

TL;DR, start blaming the damn healer for being physically slow

Two separate issues here, throughput and regen. If you don't have the throughput to heal the tank through the incoming damage, that tank is going to die whether you're at 90% mana or 3%. Once you reach the limit of how much healing you can 'push', it's up to the tank to take up the extra slack by using CD's to bring his damage taken into the range you can heal. Understanding that is the difference between a good tank / healer and a bad one.

As for this particular fight the difference in damage taken by different tanks is huge. Most of the time I heal through this easily (ilvl 358) without blowing any CD's at all, or using much mana.. However I've had geared tanks that required me popping tree form and a volcanic potion to keep them up (20k hps+).

[Myrrar]

Yeah, I agree with above poster. And Wollie, in this situation it's can be as much the tanks or dps fault, not just the healer.

If the dps don't burn down the right adds 1st the tank takes more dmg.
If the tank doesn't blow CDs if needed, the healer may not be able to keep up.
If the healer isn't using he correct spells, the tank may die with dps and the tank doing what they are supposed to.

Pulls like this, unless the tank and/or healer outgear it, everyone needs to do their job. Unless you are in the situation you can't assume it was just the healers fault or anyone else for that matter.

[Zuluhead]

Is it just me who doesn't have trouble with the bear pulls whatsoever? :s

1337

I wanna be like mike.

[Wollie]

Two separate issues here, throughput and regen. If you don't have the throughput to heal the tank through the incoming damage, that tank is going to die whether you're at 90% mana or 3%. Once you reach the limit of how much healing you can 'push', it's up to the tank to take up the extra slack by using CD's to bring his damage taken into the range you can heal. Understanding that is the difference between a good tank / healer and a bad one.

As for this particular fight the difference in damage taken by different tanks is huge. Most of the time I heal through this easily (ilvl 358) without blowing any CD's at all, or using much mana.. However I've had geared tanks that required me popping tree form and a volcanic potion to keep them up (20k hps+).

Unless you have a warrior tank who doesnt use a shield or a DK tank using a staff (Yes a staff), Throughput shouldnt be an issue, learn the dungeon enough, and you will know when big dmg is coming, it will be alot easier to heal. Restos dont have very good oh shit buttons either (Unlike there holy friends) to reduce dmg so it is a little harder, but thats half the fun.

You can also make sure your tank is informed on when to use CD's, see bear riders get big, push oh s**t button. Ultimately you shouldnt rely on someone else to do the right thing -.-, assume there gonna be bad, makes things alot easier

BTW, i am NOT an elitest or anything, i always pug, guild runs are boring, no challenge, PuG's make it fun. I carry groups to victory all the time =D

[Navene]

Unless you have a warrior tank who doesnt use a shield or a DK tank using a staff (Yes a staff), Throughput shouldnt be an issue, learn the dungeon enough, and you will know when big dmg is coming, it will be alot easier to heal. Restos dont have very good oh shit buttons either (Unlike there holy friends) to reduce dmg so it is a little harder, but thats half the fun.

You can also make sure your tank is informed on when to use CD's, see bear riders get big, push oh s**t button. Ultimately you shouldnt rely on someone else to do the right thing -.-, assume there gonna be bad, makes things alot easier

The point people are trying to make in this thread is that it's not just terribly geared tanks that are failing on this pull, and that generally, it's not the fault of the healer. There are mechanics at play that cause what the OP described, and it is very easy for the pull to simply become unhealable if those mechanics are ignored. Generic suggestions about learning the dungeons are fine, but at the end of the day:

* Watch out for the crunch armor debuff, it takes away massive amounts of the tanks armor.
* Watch out for the axe throwers, they'll stun the tank (meaning he has no mitigation.
* Stun the bears around 30% so you don't get the extra adds.

A combination of the first two is what usually ends up causing wipes. Unless your healer out gears the content, you're probably going down.

[Bysu]

With those pulls it is important to take into account several things:

- The bears alone apply an armor debuff on the tank, increasing damage intake.

- When you are facing the mounted bears, the troll riding it will dismount at about 20% hp and the bear will start attacking the tank, so make sure you always kill the low hp troll just to prevent the damage intake on the tank to skyrocket because of the armor debuff.

- Make sure people understands the tricky CC requirements for these pulls. The mobs will be immune to CC at first (either when the first pack of trolls come down from the stairs, or when the last pull runs across half of the platform), so your CCs have to be carefully timed to land when either the first pack reaches the bottom of the steps in the first stair, or when the mobs have crossed half of the platform just before the boss.

- Axe throwers will stun your tank from time to time increasing the damage he takes. No avoidance during stuns ad no options to counteract for most classes, this is pretty bad for DKs specially since they're the most "squishy" when they cannot self heal, so he should have his Ice bound Fort. ready to remove stun and mitigate damage.

- The troll menders will drop totems that slowly heal and (most annoying) shield the pack of mobs rendering them immune to anything, so either CC these or kill them really fast. Also, be aware that sometimes this will lead to important damage reduction debuffs on the mobs to disappear (attack speed, and damage dealt debuffs).