New ilevel requirements

[SegenThePally]

People would still roll on them for offspecs and alts and all the crap, in place of making it "0" they would have to make a system where each item is analyzed for each spec of each class and then divy up whether they can roll on it or not based on what they queued as. gearing up to 346 is easy. my priest was up there after about 6-7 heroics and a purple rep item.

[Anjerith]

Any system they put into place will be able to be circumvented by Bads who would rather waste time researching how to exploit the system than learning how to actually play their classes.

All your seeing is the Wrathbaby mentality of "I pay my subscription, I am as good as anyone else!".

[Azoth]

The biggest issue with the Random Dungeon Finder is that it's too easy to "fake" your iLevel by purchasing some PvP items and having a few crafted items in your bags. They don't have to be equipped, or soulbound or even something you could actually wear but as long as you have them in your bag they count towards your iLevel. Your priest could be a BS and have the tanking belt in inventory and bam 359 iLevel.

The system needs to be smarter.

[MyDisciple]

At the same time though there are a lot of talented players out there that make up for their lack of good gear by knowing how to play their class. In those cases gear restrictions are just a nuisance. I fully take advantage of the fact that I can just pass cloth epics to a hunter and call it good. I totally advocate the practice to others too assuming they can pull their weight in the content.

[Lucetia]

So what I want to see in an increase in minimum ilevel to do heroics and ZA/ZG when 4.2 goes live otherwise people will just grab one piece of tier gear and be able to que for heroics with quest green/blues and will make heroics and ZA/ZG even harder.

I enjoy doing dungeons on different toons and doing heroics because they force people to CC, think, and in general actually do more than just stand and nuke. As a casual hardcore I am now going to be swamped with people that have not done all the dungeons on regular level and are clueless when it comes to heroics.

I am simply asking for people to put in sometime in game (unfortunatly measured by ilevel) before moving on to more difficult content. This would be nice for guys/girls like me who enjoy playing the harder content without the full raid experience and hate undergeared persons in pugs.

So, because more 359 gear is available you want to raise the iLvL requirement for ZA/ZG? Won't happen. ZA/ZG would drop 353 gear. In order to raise the iLvL up because of the 359 increase you would have to go to 353 or higher. Then it becomes asking "What point is it to run it?". If it's for Valors it won't bother you, if it's to gear up for preraids it most likely won't bother you as much.

346 is fine where it's at because it's the next tier of heroics. Just like I wouldn't doubt it if the next tier of heroics required either 353 or 359 iLvL. Just because you get in with a few bads doesn't mean everyone is. I've ran more than I care to count on multiple toons and have only had a handful of groups that were bad.

You like being able to use CC? That's all fine and everything, but if you increase the iLvL requirement for ZA/ZG then you definitely will not need any CC. In fact people who were roughly in 353's were running it without CC. I know I was and that was with healer's who still had a few blues and such.

The reputation requirements in BC did nothing of the sort at all either. You could farm rep from quests and the dungeons. Running the "same" dungeons over and over did nothing to make sure you had the required gear. Some sets of the dungeons may have only dropped one or two pieces for your spec. So bringing that back will not do anything unless they offer 3/4 of a set of gear for each "group" of instances. Even then it would be boring real quick just like it did in BC. Was the one thing I disliked the most -- Run normal mode till you can't stand it then you can have a shot at heroics even though your gear can support it! The days of being able to run Hellfire instances but being denied to the rest because you haven't farmed up enough rep. Yup, real fun.

I have been thinking about the desired levels I would like and 340 for heroics and 349 for ZA/ZG would be ok

Your comment here made me chuckle. You want players to be told they are not allowed in heroic dungeons till they farm up enough JP to buy tier gear or spend more than enough days farming reps to exalted? If that's the case then all you would do is encourage people to go do BG's. Not everyone has money to buy craftables, not everyone is going to be exalted with factions for pieces. Even if you ran your 7 random dungeons in 1 week that's only 980 VP minus the 30 you get off a couple bosses. So yea, let's spend about 2-3 weeks in LFD because some people dislike the system.

first off PVP gear should have NO ITEM LEVEL. PVP gear SUCKS for zg/za and raids yet you constantly see idiots with pvp gear on cheating the system and acting like they are good.

it's usually the plate but you always see some rettard who wears half tank gear, part dps gear, part int gear and they don't realize how to gear or just don't care. I've even see warriors wearing int gear.

I disagree and unless you know what is good for every class you would know you are wrong. One example is Vicious Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets is one of the BiS items for a Retribution Paladin until Hard Mode content due to the Equip effect on it. So you want to tell a Paladin who is doing everything they can to maximize their damage that their iLvL needs to be lowered because you dislike PvP gear?

- if tank is selected any item (except trinkets) that does not have dodge, parry or mastery counts as ilvl 0
- any item (except trinkets) that does not have your primary stat (strength, agility, int) counts as ilvl 0

Because if a tank has a piece with hit/expertise on it only they should have their gear count as 0? While it's not perfectly ideal it is perfectly viable from a threat standpoint in 5 mans when players achieve higher gear. Your second item I have seen and known some strength classes to use Agility for the crit portion if their previous one was a lot weaker. Your system would also make a lot of druids not be able to queue for tank if they chose to go with a tank piece.

All your seeing is the Wrathbaby mentality of "I pay my subscription, I am as good as anyone else!".

That mentality has been around since Vanilla not Wrath. That's just your excuse to be able to "poke fun" at the ones who started in wrath. As in Vanilla people would go with "I pay the same subscription as you and I am entitled to do things how I would like as well". Which is entirely true, why should someone else dictate how you do something if everyone pays the same rate? You have a choice if you want to stay and play with that person or if you prefer to leave. In the end everyone pays the same amount and has the ability to do the same things. It's up to you on what your choice will be if you want to go down Road A or B?

[CrossKeeper]

Yes I think people should have to spend a few weeks getting gear before going into heroics. After all the only reason to go to heroics is to get better gear and see the new boss abilities.

Getting the gear is not too hard and neither is getting justice points. My level 82 hunter has almost 3k jp and only ques up when questing or gathering for my profession and has to wait 30-45min for a que to pop.

Gear will not fix suck. Players not knowing how to play is hard to overcome and there is no best solution. I do have some ideas though and would like to mention them now.

[Hitting for Heroics] Go up to a boss dummy and maintain 80%(>8kdps) based on your gear for a total of 5 minutes continuously.

[Under Control] Maintain one dummy CCed for 5 minutes while damaging another for 80%(>8kdps).

[Lively Living] Maintain one dummy above 80% health and the other 4 (including self) above 70% for 5 minutes while 1 takes heavey damage and other 4 take moderate splash damage.

[Feeling the Hate] Maintain aggro on 3 targets at once with a simulated threat of 8kdps on each with one breaking free every minute for a total of 5 minutes.

Just some ideas

---------- Post added 2011-06-14 at 10:06 AM ----------

btw my 82 hunter maintains 7kdps in quest/crafted level 82 gear. Not epeeing just saying the minimums are just that

[Lucetia]

Getting the gear is not too hard and neither is getting justice points. My level 82 hunter has almost 3k jp and only ques up when questing or gathering for my profession and has to wait 30-45min for a que to pop.

This is based on the assumption that people had JP stockpiled on their level 80 toon OR queues for dungeons while leveling. Since it's quicker to quest to 85 most skip instances unless they feel the need/want to. So you would have to base all assumptions for requirements that a level 85 toon starts out at zero JP unless you somehow force dungeon queueing prior.

Gear will not fix suck. Players not knowing how to play is hard to overcome and there is no best solution. I do have some ideas though and would like to mention them now.

[Hitting for Heroics] <snip>
[Under Control] <snip>
[Lively Living] <snip>
[Feeling the Hate] <snip>

I know I feel this way and I'm sure many other's do. For those that are competent enough would rather not sit there and waste their time on this little "activities" just because some people can't handle things. I would rather not sit there for 5 minutes straight dps'ing a target just because I have to while it would not simulate anything close to a real boss environment. Nor would I want to sit there and CC a target over and over while dps'ing. Considering it would be the same as your first one except CC'ing every 30/45/60 seconds pending on classes. The healing one would definitely not modeled. In heroics there are times your dps sits at 50% while you heal up the tank depending on circle mechanics. Your tank one would be nothing but spam AoE attack and taunt.

btw my 82 hunter maintains 7kdps in quest/crafted level 82 gear. Not epeeing just saying the minimums are just that

While he pulls that much at 82 you have to realize how things scale the remaining levels and how proportionate it is to gear. Also going this route most would not be allowed into normal mode dungeons due to them not upgrading pieces while leveling, etc. Most of the suggestions brought by people would encourage more PvP gear being used which is one of the biggest complaints by most.

[CrossKeeper]

I know I feel this way and I'm sure many other's do. For those that are competent enough would rather not sit there and waste their time on this little "activities" just because some people can't handle things. I would rather not sit there for 5 minutes straight dps'ing a target just because I have to while it would not simulate anything close to a real boss environment. Nor would I want to sit there and CC a target over and over while dps'ing. Considering it would be the same as your first one except CC'ing every 30/45/60 seconds pending on classes. The healing one would definitely not modeled. In heroics there are times your dps sits at 50% while you heal up the tank depending on circle mechanics. Your tank one would be nothing but spam AoE attack and taunt.

Like I said these are not perfect. I do not feel like 5-10 minutes of time is that much to ask per toon as a simple requirment to dungeon. Honestly you are not the people I have trouble with it is the casual casuals. This would force some learning if only supremely basics and if someone doesnt want to do somthing for 5-10 minutes then I would not be stuck with there suck for 2hrs for a heroic Grim with 5wipes on the first boss.

Also on a side note you talk about Aoe tanking....I have been in groups where the tank did not know he had an aoe attack. Actually it happened twice. Once with a paladin and once with a warrior.

[Psii]

Good luck getting cataclysm enchants on your ilvl: 0 gear.

Then you give it a flat ilvl300
Which would seriously hurt anyone's attempts to queue with it on.
Next seasons gear, 301.
Tough to figure it out.

[underdogba]

My main complaint about the ilvl requirements for ZA/ZG is simply that it is too high. Averaging 346 gear is about half a tier more than you even need to start raiding. No PvE progression in this game has ever before really required you to have the previous level of gear in every single slot before moving on. This is not really too dissimilar to the launch heroics needing 329, which is very close to having ful regular lvl 85 instance gear (333).

What this demonstrates to me is that 5-man PvE gearing is designed around socials/casuals getting maxxed out on a current "tier" before moving on, rather than the traditional progression pace that this game has typically exhibited.

[Deleted]

Because if a tank has a piece with hit/expertise on it only they should have their gear count as 0? While it's not perfectly ideal it is perfectly viable from a threat standpoint in 5 mans when players achieve higher gear. Your second item I have seen and known some strength classes to use Agility for the crit portion if their previous one was a lot weaker. Your system would also make a lot of druids not be able to queue for tank if they chose to go with a tank piece.

Ok apparently what I wrote down is far from perfect since I forgot about bear tanks. I don't agree with other tanks using items for threat though, when I see tanks doing that they've got several 359 / 353 items making their ilvl high enough even if one item counted as 0.
The rule for all both feral tank & dps would be the same, every item except trinkets need agility. I don't care about druids using "tank" items or not, the point is that they get enough avoidance from agi.