The Newer Generations of People in the workplace

[CJack14dt]

I figured this would be a good topic for the OT community to sink their teeth into. I'm a manager of a company and have managed companies around the nation for over a decade now and there has been a very serious issue that has been getting more and more problematic, the loss of management level potential in the incoming new workforce.

With the new generations having never lived without screens there is an every increasing problem of lack of people management skills. The younger generations are at a point now where they have lived their lives both protected from the immediate world around them and are constantly entertained by either music or screens. There is no "down time" from this entertainment to have them develop the interpersonal skills to effectively deal with people in the workplace because their entertainment keeps these people "in their own world" as it were to the exclusion of the immediate world around them. They are TERRIFIED of face to face confrontation and interaction with people and typically wish to address their issues by email or other digital communication. Also because they are so used having someone/thing know what they want and provide it for them there is a diminishing concept of understanding how to read the needs of others. They expect their needs to be met without having to indicate any type of request to have those needs fulfilled as they are not used to operating like that.

So what we end up with is workers that can not deal with people. The skill set has never been developed. So now at larger management training seminars there is a big divide on how to move forward. Do we accept this wave of social ineptness as an incoming standard and modify business practices to be just as passive or actively put into place provisions that help develop these lost skill sets? The problem with the latter is that it is such a blanket phenomenon that you can not identify who is management potential going in. You would have to attempt to develop everyone as a manager (a whole new can of problematic worms) and see what sticks. Would love to hear the communities thoughts as I know we have a lot of the younger generation reading this.

[Kenai]

There's a few bold generalizations I'm not sure I agree with there. Namely, social skills of now versus 50 years ago (racial relations, gender relations, ect. It is a lot easier to get along with people who look and act the same as you do for a lot of people, and those issues are better now than they have ever been). Also I find "They expect their needs to be met without having to indicate any type of request to have those needs fulfilled as they are not used to operating like that" an interesting line of thought. What needs are you referring to? A life outside of work (people enjoy these sometimes)? Certain types of operating conditions? Benefits? I have never been in a manager position myself but my friend next to me is an active assistant manager and a bit curious. Communication skills are indeed important, but I consistently see people of all ages who do not seem to possess them, so I think it a bit unfair to generalize in that regard.

However, as a general point, the skill set you are wanting...what do you exactly expect that the average person does not currently possess? Most people right now go through high school and at least some college(?) before they are considered management material, and those both require a fair amount of social skills to suceed, including speech classes, various presentations, peer review, ect. Yet, I worked retail for nearly 7 years, and despite being considered a very calm and collected person, I had to put up with a lot of crap I would not wish on my worst enemies, and ended up quitting because I could literally see and feel the stress eating away at me. I did not develop a very big sense of company loyalty after many things that happened there, and I assume this is the norm for many "less than ideal" jobs (at least the retail ones, though I know they aren't all bad). Yet a lot of people are told to suck that kind of thing up and deal with it, because they are lucky to have a job at all. This is just one example. Workers can be terrible folks that do not earn anything, but this is also true of many managers that hire them. Why would you respect/want to follow the example of someone you dislike?

Then, there's also the fact that people are indeed different. Maybe not some unique or special snowflake as far as making people care about them, but not everyone is going to fit your description just based on their personality and life choices. Maybe I am not understanding everything about what you are saying. This doesn't just seem to be another "the good old days" post, or I wouldn't have bothered responding.

[Knight Gil]

Coming from someone with zero work experience still in university: I used to be this "anti social" kid. As I grew up, I realized, ironically, that I'm better at human interaction than other people (in a way). People do spend too much time behind screens, but dont get the idea that they spend all their lifes there. They don't. People go out all the time and have fun with other people.

Digital communication plays a role on it, in my opinion. But that's not all that matters. I can't tell exactly what's happening, or what happened so that things are this way. But I'd say it has to do with education at home. I don't know. Either way, what happens is that most people don't really value human interaction. I like to speak with people, even though I'm shy and might look anti-social at times. But some people seem to bothered to interact with other people besides those in their close friend circle. Makes me wonder how they made friends in the first place /shrugs.

People also try too hard to get other people approval. Ironically again, they pretend not to be bothered by what other people think of them. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but I've seen it happen countless times. People are too defensive, and can't stand criticism. They either take it the bad way, and instead of improving, take a defensive stance, or they ignore it. They get in their own worlds when they can't be affected. I don't know why that happens, but it seems to me one of the problems that make, in your words, "workers that can not deal with people".

In school, the education system is too bothered to make kids learn stuff, like science, art, languages, and all that kind of stuff, but they don't bother to incentivate human interaction learning. And that's too bad, because some people haven't got a clue about how to interact with other human beings. People think that being "social" is being "popular". But that's wrong. Being social has nothing to do with being popular. Being social, in my point of view, is having skill to interact with other people, having the skill to know what decisions to take and what words to say, so that everyone, as much as possible, has a satisfatory interaction.

But I don't have much of an idea about how to deal with those "newer generations of people" (of which Im part of). I think it should start with education at school and at home. I'd say a manager has some control over what he wants his workers to do, so it's possible to teach them how to interact with people. But I'd say it's rather impossible to make them be a social people at heart. Only life will teach that. And even then, it might not.


Anyway, I don't know if this has a lot to do with what you asked, but still, it's my experience concerning that "social ineptness" that you talk about.

[CJack14dt]

The skill set I'm talking about is how to identify the needs of others and control person to person management situations. The incoming workforce is very internally tuned to what they want and are provided for it through their typical social mediums by complex computer marketing that presents options for them that they do not actively have to seek out. Because they are coddled in this fashion they are not able to understand situations with people external to themselves and have difficulty acting on issues that require confrontation of direct command. A very good example that is exceedingly irritating and more and more common is vacations. I've encountered many new employees that may make a statement in passing such as "my brother is getting married in the middle of next month in Reno." and then just say the day before he leaves "I should be back on Monday," with no other request for time off or delineation of time needed. In their minds the fact they said there was a wedding (without even saying they were actually going) gave them the inherit right to just not come those days as their needs should be understood by a manager. A talent pool with such a mindset like that to draw a future manager from is a nightmare.

Another good example is tasking employees with a group project. Typically you would ask a group at a meeting to do something specific that they all need to contribute to. Less and less someone in the group will take charge. What I see more and more is the meeting will disperse and the group will simply email to each other what they think they can contribute. They will not recommend or volunteer a leader to the group itself. They will send an email to me asking me to appoint a person in charge as to avoid any type of potential confrontational power struggle within the group. Situations where people move ahead and take the reins are the ones you look at to groom for management material. These are just a few of the examples but I hope you get the idea.

[JohnnyTKF]

Indeed, I am part of the Internet generation, the newest one, and I agree with you. We are in a world (Atleast the Western world) where there are no "losers" and everyone should be equal, (During school) that's bullshit, there are always people who are mediocre and people who are brilliant, we should make kids strive to be brilliant, not compensate all of them so they have "no self esteem issues"... Not saying every school is like that, mine certainly isn't, but sadly a lot of schools are either mediocre or just compensate everyone. I heard the story off the kid who got a bloody trophy/medal for playing a baseball game... Seriously? The best I got were gold medals and I had to sing like a bloody angel for them!

Sadly, I don't think anything will change, not for now, so I say companies will have to adapt, but that doesn't mean there aren't any leaders in my generation, the only problem is that they aren't always good leaders, so you need to know where to find them. I live in a developing country though, so I know our situation will be a bit different, (Although cellphones and social networking are heavily integrated, just like the Internet, but the country has other issues) but I do notice a lot of teenagers like me don't have the balls to talk about a serious problem face to face, and instead just text each other or chat on FB/MSN... I can see how that will become a problem, but I know it won't change at all, since technology will only progress, better get used to it, sadly.

My generation has some positive things, though We're normally more open for new ideas, sadly most of us are still teenagers, so that might change when we grow up.


Off topic: I friggin' LOVE the new reply system, it's waaay better than the old one!


EDIT: Oh yea, I forgot, doesn't happen here, but with all the stories of the jackasses sueing anyone for any reason, I realize why some people wouldn't want any confrontation, specially with people of the opposite sex (Seriously, when I was reading a thread like that I thought "Are you fucking kidding me? They sound like robots, they can't be that scared of being sued" but I guess that's what happened).

I know I have no bloody idea about management skills, I'm studying in Exact sciences because I'll focus on engineering (I didn't care much about anything related to companies, although I liked economics, but I'd rather focus on science and maths, since I'll work with that), so my knowledge is really limited in that area, and the fact that English isn't my first language doesn't help, but I hope you could understand what I wanted to say.

TL;DR: Learn to read!

[CJack14dt]

In school, the education system is too bothered to make kids learn stuff, like science, art, languages, and all that kind of stuff, but they don't bother to incentivate human interaction learning. And that's too bad, because some people haven't got a clue about how to interact with other human beings. People think that being "social" is being "popular". But that's wrong. Being social has nothing to do with being popular. Being social, in my point of view, is having skill to interact with other people, having the skill to know what decisions to take and what words to say, so that everyone, as much as possible, has a satisfatory interaction.

You hit a major nail on the head here and this point is brought up A LOT in debates and discussion groups.

[Knight Gil]

You hit a major nail on the head here and this point is brought up A LOT in debates and discussion groups.

Hrm....how so?

[Frozenbeef]

I've always struggled talking with people in authority (teachers,parents, adults etc) but i'm fine talking to equals >.< i tend to just smile and nod to people in higher positions than me :s

[Deleted]

I figured this would be a good topic for the OT community to sink their teeth into. I'm a manager of a company and have managed companies around the nation for over a decade now and there has been a very serious issue that has been getting more and more problematic, the loss of management level potential in the incoming new workforce.

With the new generations having never lived without screens there is an every increasing problem of lack of people management skills. The younger generations are at a point now where they have lived their lives both protected from the immediate world around them and are constantly entertained by either music or screens. There is no "down time" from this entertainment to have them develop the interpersonal skills to effectively deal with people in the workplace because their entertainment keeps these people "in their own world" as it were to the exclusion of the immediate world around them. They are TERRIFIED of face to face confrontation and interaction with people and typically wish to address their issues by email or other digital communication. Also because they are so used having someone/thing know what they want and provide it for them there is a diminishing concept of understanding how to read the needs of others. They expect their needs to be met without having to indicate any type of request to have those needs fulfilled as they are not used to operating like that.

So what we end up with is workers that can not deal with people. The skill set has never been developed. So now at larger management training seminars there is a big divide on how to move forward. Do we accept this wave of social ineptness as an incoming standard and modify business practices to be just as passive or actively put into place provisions that help develop these lost skill sets? The problem with the latter is that it is such a blanket phenomenon that you can not identify who is management potential going in. You would have to attempt to develop everyone as a manager (a whole new can of problematic worms) and see what sticks. Would love to hear the communities thoughts as I know we have a lot of the younger generation reading this.

No offense but you come across as very opinionated on this topic. Maybe your experience warrants such a biased opinion, I can't say, but to me it seems like you aren't giving people a fair chance.

To me it seems like you're measuring the new generation by the old benchmarks. While this is natural for most managers (they want their successors to be just like them), it's not really very healthy. Try and be a bit more open minded about the whole issue and remember that every person is an individual and that blanket generalizations don't do anyone justice.

I'll admit that our generation has some flaws, but they also have strengths. It really depends on your experience but I've found todays generation to also be a lot more flexible, open-minded and problem solving focused, rather than processed focused (as in, the results are what matter, not how you get there).

However I'll agree that the "I'll rather write you an email than talk to you" phenomenon is very wide spread, but that applies to older generation workers too. It's really about the person and his/her self confidence than about what generation they're from.

[CJack14dt]

The parenting and school system today is often cited as a major cause of this issue. The fact that kids are rarely allowed to win has its own problem set in my opinion but the ability to lose being taken away is the real tragedy. Losing inspires people that naturally take charge to deal with the problems in their system. Whether it be a rethink of their approach or dealing with a person on their team that was lacking/slacking they have the opportunity to deal with them and improve their strategy. This is a key skill set in management. The verbal confrontation is necessary, you have to learn how to do it; what does and doesn't work. It takes years and continual honing of such skills to allow a proper manager/leader to develop.


---------- Post added 2011-06-16 at 12:16 PM ----------

No offense but you come across as very opinionated on this topic. Maybe your experience warrants such a biased opinion, I can't say, but to me it seems like you aren't giving people a fair chance.

To me it seems like you're measuring the new generation by the old benchmarks. While this is natural for most managers (they want their successors to be just like them), it's not really very healthy. Try and be a bit more open minded about the whole issue and remember that every person is an individual and that blanket generalizations don't do anyone justice.

I'll admit that our generation has some flaws, but they also have strengths. It really depends on your experience but I've found todays generation to also be a lot more flexible, open-minded and problem solving focused, rather than processed focused (as in, the results are what matter, not how you get there).

However I'll agree that the "I'll rather write you an email than talk to you" phenomenon is very wide spread, but that applies to older generation workers too. It's really about the person and his/her self confidence than about what generation they're from.

I can't claim all the credit for this. Yes a lot of it is from my experience but a lot of it also is from various managerial training groups for execs that I get sent to with execs from other companies. Its almost always a topic especially for managers that have to deal with HR.

[Knight Gil]

I've always struggled talking with people in authority (teachers,parents, adults etc) but i'm fine talking to equals >.< i tend to just smile and nod to people in higher positions than me :s

It happens to pretty much everyone. I've always been a rebel, though. Not in the sense "I'm just gonna be a douchebag and screw everyone and everything", but in the sense "it's not just because you are in a higher position than me that I'm gonna let you push me around". It's somewhat instinctive, though, to be submissive and conformist, but it is something that can be helped. Everyone's a human. Everyone is flesh and bone

[Deleted]

I can't claim all the credit for this. Yes a lot of it is from my experience but a lot of it also is from various managerial training groups for execs that I get sent to with execs from other companies. Its almost always a topic especially for managers that have to deal with HR.

I see your points, especially the ones you made in your second post, in myself as well to a certain extent.

The "asking for holiday" example you brought up is something I never felt very comfortable about either. It wasn't so much the personal interaction that put me off it but I just never felt comfortable asking for approval. Maybe it's a generational problem but I really don't like asking people just so they can say "yes, that's ok"l, despite knowing it's important for running a department. It just irks me. I guess I it was partially because my bosses would start asking about what and why and I never felt comfortable justifying myself.

On the other hand, especially when raiding in WoW, I see and experience plenty of examples of management skills in action. Running a 25 man raid-guild is a very demanding form of management and even keeping a 10 man raid going isn't a cakewalk. I know WoW isn't real-life, but it just shows the skills are out there, they just need to be applied to the real world. I remember making plenty of suggestions at my previous work-place that were ultimately fueled by my raid-leading experience.

[Jpp]

the wall of text thread

[Frau]

I'm a product development and offshore resource manager for digital projects. I really started out as a programmer a while back, but my bosses saw that I could bridge the gap well between the tech and the layman, and deliver to stakeholders what they need to know, while at the same time translating the more creative ideas into actionable work items for a techie. These are soft skills I learned over the years, but they are also the hardest to teach. Either someone has developed their soft skills, or they haven't. And I agree that screen life makes it worse.

As you said, so many screen-facing people just can't organize their brains into any kind of management... unless it's a discrete puzzle. Put one way, they can use deductive reasoning to get the right answer on a multiple choice question but they can't come up with the answer for a fill-in-the-blank question. You need more of the latter for management, but the best managers have both.

Our technology has basically devolved human interactions. Think up a list of things you can do/say with your friends when you invite them to your house. Then, cross out any of those you couldn't do online with the assistance of any social outlet, Facebook, Twitter, text, email, phone, webcam, even WoW. This is why the next generation of managers are extremely lacking in soft skills. I still identify them as managers because the natural instincts still is for a senior manager to promote a subordinate to help him out. The alternative is to hire someone from outside, who may be a manager but know little about the actual product. This is commonly a role filled by Project Managers. No offense to them because they have a very important responsibility in the workplace and in large projects. But let's face it, many employers hire PMs to organize things for them that the middle managers just can't handle themselves. My girlfriend tells me about how at her job, senior management has placed 8 PMs on a single client account, meanwhile that client has ONE outbound liaison for the vendor she works for. That's how ridiculously weak the middle management is at her job. Granted she is middle management, but she runs an entire production team herself that handles the entire east coast, and every single process improvement she requests is put down because the PMs don't want to change. And every one of those PMs is in their 20s. One good manager could replace 4 of them easily.

These same people you speak of are amongst the most inefficient workers alive. Their first half hour at work is spent getting settled with coffee and talking to cubicle neighbors. The next half hour is spent reading email, hanging out on Facebook, and thinking about their day. Between that, the cigarettes breaks, 1 hr lunches, and 4:30pm "I'm getting ready to leave" routine, I think about 4 - 5 hrs of real, focused work is done by most of these people in any given day.

[Rocketsurgeon]

The west has been losing its empathy for decades. Compared to other cultures, like those in asia, we're blubbering and blind. This is compounded by poor hiring and training methods in the US.
Before I advanced into management, the majority of businesses I worked for discouraged any kind of social relationship or camaraderie with coworkers in favor of instead having some pretense of cold professional distance. Real issues that damaged someone's performance were not to be brought up or addressed. You either left it outside when you came in or you were replaced. The idea of hiring from within seems to be dying out as well. Theres less of a defacto mentorship and more burnout and turnover. We raise our expectations and lower our accountability for it.

You want strong workers? Treat them like people. Invest in them. Get them invested into the team and into the company. Lots of people that turn into great leaders have no chance in an interview for a leadership position when they set out on their career. Lots of those who ace the interview will let you down.

Little oddities like people not understanding protocol for asking for days off is one thing I think you'll just have to eat, accept that you're taking in people unaccustomed to the work environment(or your particular one) and make sure the rules and expectations are laid out. The example blows my mind, I can't understand it at all...but I remember at my first job interrupting my trainer to remind her that I was scheduled to leave at 5 and she was treading dangerously close to my quitting time. I can't help but laugh thinking back at myself at that age.

[CJack14dt]

I see your points, especially the ones you made in your second post, in myself as well to a certain extent.

The "asking for holiday" example you brought up is something I never felt very comfortable about either. It wasn't so much the personal interaction that put me off it but I just never felt comfortable asking for approval. Maybe it's a generational problem but I really don't like asking people just so they can say "yes, that's ok"l, despite knowing it's important for running a department. It just irks me. I guess I it was partially because my bosses would start asking about what and why and I never felt comfortable justifying myself.

On the other hand, especially when raiding in WoW, I see and experience plenty of examples of management skills in action. Running a 25 man raid-guild is a very demanding form of management and even keeping a 10 man raid going isn't a cakewalk. I know WoW isn't real-life, but it just shows the skills are out there, they just need to be applied to the real world. I remember making plenty of suggestions at my previous work-place that were ultimately fueled by my raid-leading experience.

Your vacation issue I'm sad to say is very much an American based management issue. Having lived and worked abroad I realize the value of vacation for my employees and make it very clear to them if they have the hours take um as needed, just give me a solid heads up. The company won't die without you. That is interestingly enough is something talent managers fight tooth and nail with with regular managers on, to ease up and not imply the pressure against taking a vacation. American vacation time is limited enough as it is.

As far as raid leaders go. I agree with you and disagree with you. I would hire most hardcore raid leaders in a second for technical management positions. However as I'm sure you're aware the safety veil of a screen often creates "digital courage" in people, which is why you get forum trolls, gankers and the like. Directing people through the medium of a headset still doesn't guarantee they are as competent or forward face to face in the workplace.

[Arakkar]

I feel we've elevated the wall between service and client to the extreme, demoting certain skills inherent to one's personality. Most people aren't fit to maintain this duality where they have to make due with traits that are not their own.
They were told everyone is equal, why would they need to develop a second set of social skills?

[Twominuteman]

Look for applicants that have a lot of interests or activities like sports teams, band, choir or any other social grouping listed on their application. In general people who do a lot of activities outside of their studies engage in interpersonal communication as opposed to someone who lists computer related activities or other solo activities. Dont be afraid to break down some "barriers" to find a good candidate.

[Powerogue]

I firmly believe that, as this becomes the norm, people will be less uncomfortable, as they can relate on the level that their both anti-social introverts. :P