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  1. #81
    I have to disagree with the 'tank healer' who thinks that Shield and slow Heal are the way to go for Tank healing. Tossing a bubble and then GHeal cancelling (TBC peeps know what this means) not only is way more efficient, but allows you greater control over a much larger heal. The use of 'heal' is a waste of time, mana, and overall flexibility as a Disc Priest IMO. I have been Disc Healing for a very long time and I have yet to come across a fight I can't heal either as a Raid or Tank healer.

    Oh and you people that think Healing meters matter. Just stop...please just stop. You are making fools of yourselves.

    V

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysyth View Post
    BASED OFF THIS INFO, it's seems to me the best choice would be to weigh Int > Spi > Mastery > Haste == Crit for raid healing. I think it would be prudent to get the mastery percentage to a higher number through reforging haste and proper gemming then try to balance the need for haste and crit based on your own preference.
    It looks really, really good, believe me. But the same problem with "auto-DA" always comes up. If you use PoH to "heal" a damage spike, you'll leave nice sizable shields that last for 15sec... if they are not refreshed via PoH within 15sec, all that extra goodness is wasted. So, it is possible that you may be wanting to cast a Penance for a particular GCD, but you're damn near forced to cast PoH as to not loose out on massively wasted DA.

    Now, in 10man this would be fairly easy, just PoH 1, PoH2, and boom refreshed until the next damage spike. In 25man, however, that's 5 PoHs just to maintain DA between spikes. You have to darn near start refreshing group1 as soon as you finish casting on group5. It's a horribly inefficient system.

    Quite honestly, the developers got it wrong from the beginning. PW:S should have always been 15sec and DA should have been 30sec. It makes far more sense for the cast-able shield to be something you use for planned damage, and thus does not need a huge duration, while the random proc and AoE Heal buffer should stick around, because it is a "bonus" on your heal that is calculated into you're overall efficiency, not something that looks pretty and gets wasted unless you dump another 10-25k mana of inefficiency on it.

  3. #83
    You think stop/cancelling a Gheal cast and neglecting any potential DA procs is a smarter way to tank heal? Ok...

    Not only do I 'think' it's a way to go for tank healing, but I 'prove' it each and every week I'm raiding - including heroic modes in T11 content. I've yet to find a fight where my tank was in danger of dying and like I've said before, I'm not being carried by multiple other healers. Fight dependant of course Heal spam with Gheal on spikes and SoS shield works perfectly fine.

    Raid needs help? Np, use Gheals and rotate with PoH on necessary groups. Raid fine and tank fine? Why bother stop/cancelling Gheals when I could use Heals and get some DA procs for extra mitigation and remain mana neutral?

    Heal is not waste of time, mana or flexbility but as you said, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It does, however, require some broad ability in reading damage and knowing when other spells are more suitable. Basically as a Disc tank healer, I never stop casting 'something' and and if there's no barely any damage, that 'something' will be a Heal which is being completed on the tank at 30-35% crit rate.

  4. #84
    I think one of the biggest problems with Discipline right now is the duality of POH in that it's something you want to use to heal up damage after a spike but a significant portion of it(even more with high mastery that most of us use) turns into mitigation that only really gets used up during the next damage spike. You also have to factor in the fact that casting multiple POH back to back on the same group will waste some efficiency from the glyph but that is something holy priests have to deal with too. I have learned to treat the glyph as merely a small bonus and I completely ignore its effect as far as choosing when to cast POH.

    Now as far as how this interacts with the firelands raid I think the current system is alright. On many of these fights the burst damage is going to be coming faster than once every 15 seconds. This is especially strong on fights like Staghelm but also for the burn phases of Alysrazor, Beth'tilac and Rhyolith.

  5. #85
    Right, and that's what always brings the dilemma. If your spikes are less than 15sec apart, then haste becomes a pretty darn important stat.

    >~2.1 cast speed PoH can push 7 PoHs in 15sec
    <~2.2 cast speen PoH can push 6 PoHs in 15sec

    You can use that extra PoH time for anything, like if someone is significantly lower, then drop a GH on 'em. Or a PW:S. Or a Penance. Or a PW:S+Penance.

    Could the crit gods be nice to you and evenly spread your crits amongst the heals? Sure, could also be not so much. Remember, since it is a small sample, there is larger room for deviance from the norm. That is why many healers will just take the guaranteed extra "PoH" time to do with what they please.

  6. #86
    One thing I have to disagree with there is that you probably won't have to cast anywhere near that many POH between the damage bursts, especially with how druids are right now. The REAL big bursts(Like Staghelm with many stacks of fury) are going to be tranqued or something limiting the amount of aoe healing that you will be required to do. Usually these things go more like burst-->2-3 POH--> Shield as many targets as you can--> repeat. At least this has been my experience with normal modes for the first week.

    We do use 2 Druids though so all big damage situations end up being healed super super quickly.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyleiran View Post
    We do use 2 Druids though so all big damage situations end up being healed super super quickly.
    That doesn't surprise me. Tranq is the new PW:B.

  8. #88
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyleiran View Post
    One thing I have to disagree with there is that you probably won't have to cast anywhere near that many POH between the damage bursts, especially with how druids are right now. The REAL big bursts(Like Staghelm with many stacks of fury) are going to be tranqued or something limiting the amount of aoe healing that you will be required to do. Usually these things go more like burst-->2-3 POH--> Shield as many targets as you can--> repeat. At least this has been my experience with normal modes for the first week.

    We do use 2 Druids though so all big damage situations end up being healed super super quickly.
    I found the best efficiency on Staghelm was pre-PoHing for DA Procs on as many groups as possible, utilizing PI towards the end when slashes are coming faster. You can get DA on many more people than you can get Shields - especially mana-wise.

    My log
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    It looks really, really good, believe me. But the same problem with "auto-DA" always comes up. If you use PoH to "heal" a damage spike, you'll leave nice sizable shields that last for 15sec... if they are not refreshed via PoH within 15sec, all that extra goodness is wasted. So, it is possible that you may be wanting to cast a Penance for a particular GCD, but you're damn near forced to cast PoH as to not loose out on massively wasted DA.

    Now, in 10man this would be fairly easy, just PoH 1, PoH2, and boom refreshed until the next damage spike. In 25man, however, that's 5 PoHs just to maintain DA between spikes. You have to darn near start refreshing group1 as soon as you finish casting on group5. It's a horribly inefficient system.

    Quite honestly, the developers got it wrong from the beginning. PW:S should have always been 15sec and DA should have been 30sec. It makes far more sense for the cast-able shield to be something you use for planned damage, and thus does not need a huge duration, while the random proc and AoE Heal buffer should stick around, because it is a "bonus" on your heal that is calculated into you're overall efficiency, not something that looks pretty and gets wasted unless you dump another 10-25k mana of inefficiency on it.
    I still think we should have a tool to convert absorbs into direct heals, either by changing Holy Nova (it is lackluster as it is now anyway), or by having PoH convert all previous DA on targets healed into direct heals (leaving the one each cast causes itself of course).
    I even like the second one better as it prevents us from getting nerfed for using PoH to stack absorbs on many targets, which is very likely to happen as soon as it becomes an effective strategy in more than one fight, meaning very very soon.
    At the same time it would make PoH easier to handle and easier to balance. We would be able to get groups up after dropping low in health much faster with nearly the same efficiency independently of following damage patterns while still retaining our speciality of stabilizing people with absorbs when healing them.

  10. #90
    I can't think of many times where converting the DA on a person into a real heal would actually be beneficial.
    If someone has had DA long enough for it to be falling off soon then that's more than likely because they don't actually NEED any healing and are at full health.

  11. #91
    Forgot to look when I tried it tonight and I would rather not wait a week to get fixed:

    On the Baleroc encounter, do Shield's direct heals (from the glyph) trigger Vital flame and add a stack of Vital spark?

    BTW Penance = <3 on this fight

  12. #92
    Sinn > I believe the heal from gylph'd shield does trigger Vital Flame, and also gives u a stack of Vital Spark. And I agree, Penance is the shizzzz here!

  13. #93
    Even if the glyph from the shield DOES trigger Vital Flame, I'd advise NOT using a shield to do so.

    Think about it. You want to put a shield on the tank AFTER you have the Vital Flame buff so that your shield benefits from the buff too.
    If you throw a shield on the tank as your first spell, then you'll just be putting on a tiny baby shield instead of the monster shield you could be putting on the tank and you'll have to clear the WS debuff before you can put another one on.

  14. #94
    The glyph from the Shield was NOT triggering Vital Flame last reset when I was healing it and don't believe anything has changed since then either. So yes, be sure to cast a single target heal before your shield to get the most benefit.

  15. #95
    Blademaster Broekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    How about it's status in arena?
    I have found it´s status in arena Great.

    I play a Disc priest in arena with a feral druid and its going great.

    For all the slow and and interrupts I have encountered, I have beaten the most of them.

    I can prevent fear with fear ward, which I love!
    And if a Warrior is trying to take me down, I have a shied for when stun runs out, and if necessary a desperate prayer to get me up.

    Interrupts and silence can be a pain, but Rangeds can be LoS and Melee can be outrun, since with the 4-piece set bonus I cant be slowed for 4 seconds after I cast shield, and if necessary melee can almost always be feared (God I love my fear) for a short period while I heal with flash heal (which is free due to Inner focus)
    The worst enemy I have had in an arena so far is a death knight, I have laughed at warrior and droods who couldn't penetrate my shield, but Death Knight, those sons of Bi***** are ALWAYS powerful enough to destroy my shield, And then they have that awful healing absorption, (50k healing absorb my A**)
    But hey, somebody have to be more powerful than you, else we would just get nerfed.

    But my overall conclusion is Disco in arena rocks.

    I can hold mana better than a resto drood and I have mana burn

    Mana Burn Ftw!
    Last edited by Broekan; 2011-07-08 at 01:30 AM. Reason: Mana Burn is awesome. nuf said!

  16. #96
    It seems more and more top priests are dropping mastery as primary stat. If you look at the logs spell that heal the most was PoH followed by DA.
    I would quote a guy from EJ who said int->spi>haste>crit>mastery. I couldnt agree more. Extra DAs procced by critical PoH are insane. Besides DA scales poorly with mastery. Seems PWS days are over. And Im more then happy to jump on that wagon.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by phyx View Post
    It seems more and more top priests are dropping mastery as primary stat. If you look at the logs spell that heal the most was PoH followed by DA.
    I would quote a guy from EJ who said int->spi>haste>crit>mastery. I couldnt agree more. Extra DAs procced by critical PoH are insane. Besides DA scales poorly with mastery. Seems PWS days are over. And Im more then happy to jump on that wagon.
    I am one to agree with int>spi>haste>crit>mastery. Also, just to mention it, I am seeing almost 80K Gheals in raid with wings popped. Keeping that DA with PoH really helps on the tank (not to mention helping the melee group).
    I don't heal STUPID, Stupid SHOULD HURT!
    Syntyche - Disc Priest

  18. #98
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I've got my haste rating so that in raids with 2/3 Darkness I sit at 2.1 sec PoH by default and 17 Mastery - with BT & PI do you really think it's better to stack more haste that than (1.9sec BT PoH / 1.7 PI PoH) for raid healing?

  19. #99
    I'm on sabbatical from WoW atm, but in T11 heroics, ~2.1 always felt like a good haste point for 2.5sec casts. I would use that as your baseline, then adjust based on the damage patterns of the current tier.

  20. #100
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    Yeah I didn't think anymore haste than that was really needed.

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