DE opinions

[Fenixdown]

I see the enchanters in this thread never played in vanilla or BC (or even early Wrath, for that matter).

There's a reason they make it where you can just autodust now. Because enchanters were frankly kind of tired of having to spend their time in dungeons having to disenchant all of the blues to evenly distribute shards at the end of runs.

In a nutshell, enchanters have been doing the "Disenchant" option manually for many years. Blizzard eliminated the middleman. They saved you some time doing the exact same thing you were doing already.

The disenchant option is most certainly NOT taking money from your precious pocket. I can make plenty of money from enchanting and I don't even try to. If you're not able to do the same in the current design, then you're just plain and simple doing it wrong.

[Lei]

It seems some are confused. On my priest I did not need any of the greens that dropped (there were 6 I could have) I only did it on the boss drops that noone else needed and I could need on. As alliance on eredar the economy sucks, greater clestial go for 50g plus and the rest of the prices equally horrible. When this happened I was still trying to level from 510-525 so most everything required about 150g-200g a point to get.

On another note back in WOTLK I was flamed by the group when my enchanting skill was not high enough to DE boss drops and only the greens. Only happened a few times, but noone flames the skinner/minner/herber if their skill is not high enough.

Excuses excuses... Nothing belongs to you in any instance when you are grouped up with others, and you don't have any "right" to need on them, of course you can do it, but don't be surprised if you get booted.
But once more: nothing belongs to you in an instance because you have a profession... What if you grouped up with 1-2 more enchanter? The fact that you are enchanter doesn't means that noone else can be too...

Also, you only need to make 1 runed elementium rod to reach 520-525 (gives 5 skillpoint, 6 shard needed for it, and you will need it to make powerful enchants, so you must make one anyways). EVERYTHING else can be done from dusts and celestial essences up to 520 and those are from greens...

[Gnomepowa]

Another thing to be aware of is that there is no way to get enchant mats except from enchanters, which is rather different from other gathering professions. Enchanters used to make money twice: once by selling the mats and then by making the enchant. The option to disenchant gives most player access to disenchant mats, which is similar to how Cloth is assembled.

Hold on... you are wrong... what's different in buying the leather and give it to a LW plus tip to make stuff for you? The only thing that can be gathered by anyone is cloth but in at a smaller rate by non-tailors. That cuz it's also used for bandages. I never remembered it to be easy getting leather, herbs or BS/eng mats. Plus right now, on TOP OF THAT, you can't simply buy all mats since you need the orb and the crafter will charge you as much as he pleases while you have no choice. As an enchanter it doesn't cost anything extra so yes I do think enchanters get the raw deal in all this.

[Ynna]

Hold on... you are wrong... what's different in buying the leather and give it to a LW plus tip to make stuff for you? The only thing that can be gathered by anyone is cloth but in at a smaller rate by non-tailors. That cuz it's also used for bandages. I never remembered it to be easy getting leather, herbs or BS/eng mats. Plus right now, on TOP OF THAT, you can't simply buy all mats since you need the orb and the crafter will charge you as much as he pleases while you have no choice. As an enchanter it doesn't cost anything extra so yes I do think enchanters get the raw deal in all this.

The main difference is that the leatherworker (in this example) isn't necessarily able to get leather on his own. He doesn't make any money selling leather, so you're only paying him for the time and effort needed to create whatever item you want.
An enchanter on the other hand (assuming there's no such thing as a disenchant button) would make money twice. Once by selling the materials and then as payment for the enchant.

Now you might think: "But the LW can get skinning can't he?". Yes he can, but he would have to give up something else, which isn't required of the enchanter.
And if a crafter is requiring too much money for your taste (because of the orb) just find one with a more reasonable price.

[Gnomepowa]

@Fenix - I've been playing some a long time and that's BS... I didn't mind splitting stuff and rolling for the epic de in the end when I was rolling with people I knew. Not when pugging and I didn't tell people. You can ask whats the difference... it's easy... when you craft something that doesn't cost you anything for a guildie or a friend you don't charge them, but you do for a random person. And trust me enchanting was tough, having to enter Uldaman just to find your trainer.

@Lei- yes, the de-ed stuff that I have in my bag regardless where I am belongs ONLY to me. Because I'm an enchanter the regular stuff is worth more. And it shouldn't happen to everyone. You rolled greed and won, enjoy your 13g but you shouldn't expect more than that. Again, I never rolled need for mats. Greed like the rest and de-what you happen to get.

[CrossKeeper]

so this is kinda going off on a tangent, but you are right. Orbs. So when 4.2 drops and orbs are still a crafter only drop and I want my BS to make me the new MH weapon I have to run and win 5 instances on her to get the MH I want on my priest. Right now because they are BOP and reserved to crafters only I cant even roll on it greed or need.

As a BS you can go to nodes and mine all your skill points. As a tailor you can farm mobs that always drop cloth. As a LW you can go kill mobs to get random crap plus the mats you need. I have done all of these. So now as an enchanter where am I supposed to go to farm my mats?

Also I was not looking for sympathy so those of you that are upset that I needed and DEed that is fine. Afterall I did not kick people from my group just so I could keep the loot for myself. Also why should you make a profit off my skill when I cant make a profit off of yours? Enchanting is the only profession where others can make money off your time.

[Malekyth]

So wait, let me see if I got this straight. You are mad at the first group because you "messing up their shard run" means they are greedy, but you're ok with being greedy yourself on your priest? While I agree the first group were being greedy you have to remember that if they were there for a shard run, they already had an enchanter in their group, as I seriously doubt 4 guys from a guild went to do a shard run hoping the 5th random player was an enchanter. They could have easily rolled need on EVERYTHING and whoever won just trade it to their enchanter for DEing, in which case you probably wouldn't have gotten the pieces you did.

As far as you needing on all the boss drops on your priest, yeah you were being just as greedy. You are trying to rationalize it by saying that the shards are worth more than the gear is if they vendor it. Need is supposed to be that you need that piece of gear for your character.( not gonna get into the MS/OS thing here, it doesn't matter to this discussion) You rolling need on gear for the shard is no less greedy than anyone else rolling need just so they can vendor it..either way it is putting something in your pocket.

[Ynna]

so this is kinda going off on a tangent, but you are right. Orbs. So when 4.2 drops and orbs are still a crafter-only drop and I want my BS to make me the new MH weapon I have to run and win 5 instances on her to get the MH I want on my priest. Right now because they are BOP and reserved to crafters only I cant even roll on it greed or need.

As a BS you can go to nodes and mine all your skill points. As a tailor you can farm mobs that always drop cloth. As a LW you can go kill mobs to get random crap plus the mats you need. I have done all of these. So now as an enchanter where am I supposed to go to farm my mats?

Also I was not looking for sympathy so those of you that are upset that I needed and DEed that is fine. Afterall I did not kick people from my group just so I could keep the loot for myself. Also why should you make a profit off my skill when I can't make a profit off of yours? Enchanting is the only profession where others can make money off your time.

Yeah, the orbs being BoP is something weird. I've been wondering what the logic behind that was since the start of Cataclysm.
Anyway, a BS can't go out and mine, a miner can. A Leathworker can't go and skin leather a skinner can. I'm a Scribe but not a Herbalist. Where, oh where should I get my mats?
By the way, since you are wondering where you should get your mats: the availability of enchant mats went up and the price went down because more stuff is being disenchanted due to the disenchant button.

[CrossKeeper]

Enchanting is the only crafting profession (besides tailoring--which is kill mobs) that does not have a supporting profession. Hell even lockpicking back when you had to level it had picpocketing so there was someway to get what you need to level up. The only true supporting profession for enchanters is Loremaster. Go do every single quest and DE what you get. There I guess problem solved except you still get to profit from my enchanting if you are in my dungeon group.

I had already decided to not do the need/de thing again prior to posting. I really wanted to talk about being kicked after an hour wait since I actually needed gear, but I wanted to show that I had done something wrong in the past too to be human and show that I am not perfect. Oh well

---------- Post added 2011-06-15 at 12:03 PM ----------

I was on my lock in the first one. She is a herb/alch

[Gnomepowa]

The main difference is that the leatherworker (in this example) isn't necessarily able to get leather on his own. He doesn't make any money selling leather, so you're only paying him for the time and effort needed to create whatever item you want.
An enchanter on the other hand (assuming there's no such thing as a disenchant button) would make money twice. Once by selling the materials and then as payment for the enchant.

Now you might think: "But the LW can get skinning can't he?". Yes he can, but he would have to give up something else, which isn't required of the enchanter.
And if a crafter is requiring too much money for your taste (because of the orb) just find one with a more reasonable price.

Ok so we're talking about choices huh? Since I started playing this game I knew one thing... pair your professions...herb/alch, min/eng or BS, skin/lw, ench/tailor. Be smart don't complain about stuff that you can go around and use it to your advantage. What's wrong with gathering all the greens you find and paying 100g to de all that to an enchanter you know. I've always done that for toons hordeside since my only enchanter was alliance and on a diff server. I knew it was a bitch to level and found a way around it to get enchants. NEVER had to buy stuff off AH.

[Deleted]

I have seen rogues need on lock boxes since they can pick the lock and noone bitches. Well can I need on my BS since I can make a key?

If someone needs on a box then i need aswell, i have a bs who can open them so it's ether all greed or i need on it aswell.

[Deleted]

Two posts in and this comes up. I don't have a problem with miners and skinners keeping their loot. Not at all. I also don't have a problem with other party members greeding on blues to vendor. The problem comes with other group members using my enchanting profession to 1) make a profit by changing a 10g vendor into a 50g or 200g crystal, 2) increasing the supply of enchanting mats on the market (dual effect of increasing cost to level, but also increasing profit of selling enchanting mats).

Now, if I had that CHOICE to do this for the group, then that's totally okay if Blizzard wants to allow me the option of conveniently DEing for people. But automatically forcing me to increase the profit other others and decrease my profit potential... can one not see the problem with that?

You're right. Dungeon drops shouldn't be disenchantable in random groups.

Besides a snarkyass remark, you can't compare it with Miners and Skinners. They're gathering professions, you give up a crafting profession in order to have one. Disenchanting is both gathering and crafting, all tied into one, with DE'ing being a side bonus. Your argument would make a terrific ammount of sense if disenchanting was something you had to level up secondary to enchanting as a gathering profession, but as it stands it doesn't.

You think you deserve the disenchanting materials because you've level'd disenchanting but the simple fact is you don't, the "forced" DE option helps the economy (don't be greedy) and gives people the oportunity to actually obtain their materials without going bankrupt in the process. Now compare that versus your own petty feelings of entitlement backed up by the argument "Because I want it" and see how far it goes.

[Gnomepowa]

If someone needs on a box then i need aswell, i have a bs who can open them so it's ether all greed or i need on it aswell.

Exactly right. But imagine this... let's say you are a rogue a box drop everyone rolls greed one guy gets it and believe it's within his right to have it opened by you. Or you mine an elemental boss that everyone killed and have people demand to roll for the mats. That doesn't make sense. But to automatically force the enchanter to de stuff for free, stuff that you won with a greed roll fair and square is wrong....

[Mammoth]

Not this thread again.... I was hoping for something new.

Enchanting is a crafting profession, not a gathering profession.

You are expected to make money from enchants, not from disenchants. The only reason that enchanters are required in order to DE gear is for immersion reasons. The world would be a better place with everyone able to DE, but it would feel odd.

Enchanters have a pretty large advantage being able to DE their own gear. Too much QQ about people "stealing" your DEs will just end up in that advantage being taken away by Blizz.

[Deleted]

Exactly right. But imagine this... let's say you are a rogue a box drop everyone rolls greed one guy gets it and believe it's within his right to have it opened by you. Or you mine an elemental boss that everyone killed and have people demand to roll for the mats. That doesn't make sense. But to automatically force the enchanter to de stuff for free, stuff that you won with a greed roll fair and square is wrong....

In what way is it wrong? We can have everyone greed on things instead; this still doesn't benefit the enchanter one bit. If a boss goes unmined, a mob unskinned or a Obsidium Vein unviolated, those mats are dead. If a blue item drops however it still holds value, so defaulting them to the DE'er is wrong right off the bat, so people that are whining about forced DE's are simply selfish.

[Lei]

@Lei- yes, the de-ed stuff that I have in my bag regardless where I am belongs ONLY to me. Because I'm an enchanter the regular stuff is worth more. And it shouldn't happen to everyone. You rolled greed and won, enjoy your 13g but you shouldn't expect more than that. Again, I never rolled need for mats. Greed like the rest and de-what you happen to get.

As long as everyone has the same chance to get the given drop, it's ok. I raised my voice because the op thinks he has the right to get those blues that noone needs as gear.

As a BS you can go to nodes and mine all your skill points. As a tailor you can farm mobs that always drop cloth. As a LW you can go kill mobs to get random crap plus the mats you need. I have done all of these. So now as an enchanter where am I supposed to go to farm my mats?

As a blacksmith you cannot mine nodes, as leatherworker you cannot skin. You need another main profession to be able to do it. While if you are enchanter, you have 1 "gatherer" and 1 crafter prof in one profession slot. And gathering professions are not so good, they don't give any useful benefit, like 2 crafting profession, and while it's harder to level 2 crafting profession, it has more benefits (+socket, +bonus enchants here and there, +jc gems) than stamina from mining, or crit from skinning. Ok, the haste from herb gathering is not so bad. But keep in mind that if your server is full of bots, then they will rule the prices (but in fact, 1 bot can keep a whole realm in economic disaster for days), so mining/skinning/herb gathering in general not profitable professions. This is the reason why typical "farming" alts has 2 gathering professions for example. If they are .ucked up with 1, let them be double handicapped.

As enchanter you can check the market for cheap mats (and ahem, enchanting is the best prof to make profit from ah, disenchant cheap gear, sell dusts/essences). For example people put up blue rarity profession leveler gear on ah for ridiculous prices (emberfire gear for 10-15-20g?), many of them gives a whole shard, not just small shard piece. Also, keep in mind, you only need 6 shard to reach 520-525, all other can be done from greens. My enchanter reached 520 only from leveling up him from 80-85 and simply disenchant the tons of greens he got in the way (10/8 quest gives a green, and every 3-4 mob drops something). I replaced all epic gear from wotlk on him while I gone trough hyjal, and sold abyss crystals for 90-120g each, when the market was thirsty and empty, everyone focused on cata mats.
So please don't tell me that with a little effort you cannot get 6 heavenly shard on your own...

[zYN]

Only thought I got from reading that: If you roll Need on stuff, the items should become impossible to disenchant.

[CrossKeeper]

Yeah, the orbs being BoP is something weird. I've been wondering what the logic behind that was since the start of Cataclysm.
Anyway, a BS can't go out and mine, a miner can. A Leathworker can't go and skin leather a skinner can. I'm a Scribe but not a Herbalist. Where, oh where should I get my mats?
By the way, since you are wondering where you should get your mats: the availability of enchant mats went up and the price went down because more stuff is being disenchanted due to the disenchant button.

Yes but you can chose to be a miner to level your BS/Eng. You can chose to be a skinner to level your LW. You can chose to be an herbalist to level your Alch/scribe. There are nodes then that you can look up on wowhead to find out where to go to get your mats and for minning and herbalism dont require you to have to kill anything.

I am a tailor/enchanter but this forces me to go kill x number of mobs to get y number of cloth and now DE for the chance of getting the enchanting item I need.

Enchanting is not a gather and crafting profession. That is the silliest reply of them all.

[Gnomepowa]

In what way is it wrong? We can have everyone greed on things instead; this still doesn't benefit the enchanter one bit. If a boss goes unmined, a mob unskinned or a Obsidium Vein unviolated, those mats are dead. If a blue item drops however it still holds value, so defaulting them to the DE'er is wrong right off the bat, so people that are whining about forced DE's are simply selfish.

You really don't get it. I NEVER said defaulting blues to the DE'er. I said don't force me de stuff that already belongs to you after you rolled greed.

[cherb]

Enchanting is the only crafting profession (besides tailoring--which is kill mobs) that does not have a supporting profession. Hell even lockpicking back when you had to level it had picpocketing so there was someway to get what you need to level up. The only true supporting profession for enchanters is Loremaster. Go do every single quest and DE what you get. There I guess problem solved except you still get to profit from my enchanting if you are in my dungeon group.

I had already decided to not do the need/de thing again prior to posting. I really wanted to talk about being kicked after an hour wait since I actually needed gear, but I wanted to show that I had done something wrong in the past too to be human and show that I am not perfect. Oh well

---------- Post added 2011-06-15 at 12:03 PM ----------

I was on my lock in the first one. She is a herb/alch

Go kill mobs on your own time if you want to DE everything for yourself. You are a dick for needing on things for your own profit. There's a button for that. It's called GREED.