Help needed on Nefarian P3 add Kiting

[Sirjeize]

As the title say's. We go in the Nef encounter with a Druid tank for Ony and a Pala tank in P1 for Nef and in P3 for the adds.

There seems to be a problem tho. We repeatably get adds in our raid and he just doen't seem to coop with keeping aggro on all of them or picking them up if one of them dies.

Also he seems to take allot of unneeded damage from the adds. according to him due to a tailswipe altho it's only a 1 sec stun so we doubt that. All in all i'd like some pointers/help for our Paladin tank to improve his kiting because he seems to tank them more at the moment then kite them. also help with routing would be appriciated.

[manners]

actually, being tail swiped is a huge problem for the kite tank. your druid should be tanking nef in the middle of the room and rotating him so the paladin does not get tail swiped. tell your druid to make sure he is fully zoomed out and watching where the pally tank is so he can adjust accordingly, also make sure he alerts the raid before he rotates nef so you can adjust accordingly.

[.Nensec]

If you are kiting lots of mobs that on their own tend to hit like a small truck and you get stunned for one second allowing all those adds to catch up to you all at the same time = splat tank. That is the unneeded damage what he talked about. One way to deal with it is stay on the opposite side of neffy such as and kite in a D shape. If · is Nef:

·D

That way you are never in front to reenergize the adds and you are not behind him to get stunned

[Sirjeize]

That's what were doing at this point. Nef in the middle us on the side of his tail just out of range of his swipes. altho he manages to get hit by it any way. We always seem to wipe around 25%ish. What about the adds in the raid tho. any feedback on that how to handle this propperly ?

[noteworthynerd]

How are you positioning Nefarian in Phase 3? If your add tank is getting tail swiped, then you're making it much harder than it has to be. I've done the fight with several different guilds, but they all do it the exact same way.

Nefarian, at the start of phase 3, should be picked up and moved to the side, like this (please overlook my awesome MS Paint skills):



Then, assuming the adds are all dead at the red X (and they should be, if Phase 1 is done correctly), your Paladin can throw down a Consecration, which should generate enough initial aggro to move them out of the fire. From there, Hammer of the Righteous and Consecration on CD should be more than enough to keep aggro. If one happens to spawn later than the others, he can just throw his shield (make sure he has the daze off) and taunt to get it into his AoE. He (and his dedicated healer) should also run in a semi circle pattern (like the picture below), and only move when DBM warns that Shadowflame Breath has been cast.


Edit: I just saw your question about adds in the raid. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it unless your Paladin can properly taunt to get them all back, which is extremely difficult if there is more than one there. If you've got a DPS who can taunt (Warrior or DK, for example), they can help by taunting and bringing it out. You could also try to freeze the add in place with a Mage's Circle of Frost or a Frost DK's Hungering Cold.

[Deleted]

Here's a nice Tank POV Video for Add kiting. Normal Mode though, but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qJWoksEEk

P.s.: Don't start with the Nef at the outer rim in p3. It's gonna mush your brain for hms.

Edit: Your Neff Tank schould always turn Neff so, that the kitetank can't be hit by either breath oder tailwhip (watch his healers as well!)

[Sirjeize]

Thanks for all the quick responses and tips. I'll defo look into the video as soon as i'm off work (youtube blocked here). Please if you have additional info do share.

[noteworthynerd]

Here's a nice Tank POV Video for Add kiting. Normal Mode though, but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qJWoksEEk

P.s.: Don't start with the Nef at the outer rim in p3. It's gonna mush your brain for hms.

He didn't say anything about Hard Mode, so I assumed he's asking for normal, and Nef at the side is the easiest strat for normal mode.

[Deleted]

Before you learn how to kite them, It's rough so instead of doing the same thing over and over again try something diffrent and see how it goes!

I'm a blood DK, I tank adds + ony in P1 so they die in a nice pile once P2 starts, once P3 starts I aggro them then take a few steps back and wait for the next shadowblaze (i think its called that) when its about 1 second left I strafe-run along the outer "lines" on the platform untill about 1 second after the blaze is casted, then i jump once for some extra distance, then i stay there untill next time its 1 second left, once the mobs despawn just stand and wait, if the fire resses some, just stand still and tank them, if every add exept one spawns, tank all adds in the fire and wait untill you got them all, sometimes after a despawn taking aggro from the pile of mobs just suck, even tho they ress in a D'n'D + I'm blood boiling (AoE attack with high threat) 1-3 mobs can start run thowards the healers, I try to grip and taunt, but otherwise call for a MD or ToT.

We are doing the "tactic" were i kite in round circles and the nefarian tank turns nefarian and keeps the DPS/healers at Nefs back leg, and its the leg that is between me and nef,(Imagine drawing lines, you will be able to draw a triangle between nef tank, add tank and rest of the raid with out touching nef :P) then just keep this position at all time (ofc if you get a fire into melee run to the other side of him) then the add tank wont get tail swiped nor will the adds get a breath and get a new set of energy (if you do the kiting right the fire will despawn befor you make a 360, so theoretically you can kite them for all eternity)

[Deleted]

Try www.esproxy.com if youtube is blocked. Most block lists don't know that proxy.

@note: I wouldn't say your wrong about that, to be honest my firstkill neff normal was the same strat (10 man though), but not quite right either. Having neff in the middle means minimal movement for dodging any fires, means maximizing your dps and grp heal. Your kiter doesn't have to make any sharp turns around pillars or similar making his live all the easier again. All depends on the skill of your neff tank to make threat (haha) and watch where that tail is looking. Pick 1 healer or 1 dps you trust, mark him with a star and let the raid know, where that guy stands is the place to be.

[Sirjeize]

prob resolved with blocking. now im lacking a decent flash player ah heck im off in 20min ill look at it at home. cheers for the tip tho.

[Deleted]

I tank the nef adds for our guild; we keep Nef in the middle.

The main problem that can screw up a P3 is a messy P1 drop off. If the adds all "die" together in a nice neat pile in P1 then they are all reactivated by a single spark in P3, meaning that they are all at identical buff levels and such which makes 'em easier to handle. If it's a messy P1 then the P3 tank might have to wait around for several sparks or for fire to spread before all the adds reactivate.

There's a bit of time at the start of the phase; one of the mistakes that a lot of tanks make at this point is too much movement. You -don't- need to kite them around repeatedly. If you do that, you'll likely end up either running out of space (the fire takes a while to despawn) or losing agro.

Pick them up, pull them to the outer rim, pop Divine Plea, Avenging Fury, Inquisition and spam the hell out of Hammer of the Righteous.

The add tank only needs to start moving a few seconds before the spark casts, and only has to move the adds far enough so that the fire doesn't spread and clip them, then he can use Holy Wrath and back off a bit. This is ~3 seconds worth of stun, at a point where there's no danger of shadowsparks. Helps the assigned healer. Repeat the movement 'til the adds "die".

And then, important part .. there is a 100% agro wipe on the adds when they are reactivated after "dying". Try and keep 3 HoPo so that you can pop Inquisition when it's time to pick them all up again. I don't use Consecration for much, but it's quite handy for that little bit of extra AoE threat. Don't be tempted to blow Holy Wrath for extra AoE damage as you don't want to stun them while they're standing in the fire.

If there's a clean drop off in P1/pickup in P3 and the add tank isn't letting the fire clip any of the adds during sparks, all of the adds should "die" together at once, so there should never be a single loose add needing to be picked up. Worst case scenario and the add kiter let's one break loose, assign a plate DPS class to taunt and drag it over to the add tank for him to pick back up.

[Deleted]

^what he said basically shows the video as well.

Although normal mode is possible with single pick up, had them all spread out (dk). Nice way to take load of healers when their gear suckz. Although you have to make a dropzone at some point / have good dps.

[Crushima]

As the title say's. We go in the Nef encounter with a Druid tank for Ony and a Pala tank in P1 for Nef and in P3 for the adds.

There seems to be a problem tho. We repeatably get adds in our raid and he just doen't seem to coop with keeping aggro on all of them or picking them up if one of them dies.

Also he seems to take allot of unneeded damage from the adds. according to him due to a tailswipe altho it's only a 1 sec stun so we doubt that. All in all i'd like some pointers/help for our Paladin tank to improve his kiting because he seems to tank them more at the moment then kite them. also help with routing would be appriciated.

Sounds like your guild should wait for the 4.2 patch which will completely nerf this fight and make it easy for you.

[Deleted]

Sounds like your guild should wait for the 4.2 patch which will completely nerf this fight and make it easy for you.

Awesome help there.

[Deleted]

Hi there!

Thank you for these tips! I'm from the same raidteam as mr. Jeize.

To Crushima; we're actualy doing our best to slay the bastard before 4.2. No honor in nerfed content imo.

Another discussion me and Jeize having is regarding the Crackles going off. I'm convinced that we need at least 3 before we hit phase 3. Phase 2 is a cakewalk currently, and with proper cooldown management we can generaly pull off a 3rd crackle in phase 2. We've had some accasional deaths though. We also tried a 3rd crackle in phase 1, but that had varied succes due to fluctuating dps (Onyxia's 100 Energy one-shot of awesomeness). Im pretty sure Jeize believes we should only take 2 crackles, and IF we HAVE to take a 3rd to take it in Phase 1. (Definitly not phase 2)

As a raidteam with an avarage of 85-90k raiddps we can't win the fight with Nef at 71% in phase 3. What would the experienced lot of you advise for 3rd-crackle timing?

[noteworthynerd]

If you are going to do 3 crackles prior to Phase 3 (which is not necessary, IMO), do it in Phase 2, but ONLY if everyone is close to full health and only if the people on your platforms are able to kick every single blast wave.

[Kugel]

I'm the pally tank in our group who tanks the adds in P3. As far as getting all the adds and holding agro, it's really important to make sure who ever groups them up at the end of P1, has them all grouped up when they go down. At the begining of P3, have the pally, stand in the group and consecrate right before they come up, and as soon as they come up, HotR. Just judge, and keep using HotR. As far as getting tail swipped and him dying, it is a big deal, while stunned the tank can't dodge/parry/block any attacks so he's just straight taking all those hits. The tank on Nef, needs to make sure he's keeping the pally and his healer on Nef's side at all times, and to make sure he's turning at the same rate the pally tank and his healer. The pally also needs to make sure the adds don't get hit by the fire so they go down and reset their buff. Any further questions feel free to ask

[Deleted]

We do 0 crackles in P1 and 0 in P2
We go in to phase 3 with 91-93% hp

I (DK blood) Tank onyxia + adds and second tank takes nef with 1 healer, we MD adds to me aswell as i grip and taunt them and just burn onyxia down with 0 dps attacking nefarian, so only tank dmg will be done to him, since all adds are in a nice pile kiting the adds is not a problem, since they all ress at the same time.

then we just burn nefarian down, poping cd's on electocutes (no idea why its called crackle) and on 19% we pop BL and just kill the rest.

[Devboy]

In relation to Umtha's post, taking a 3rd crackle before p3 is very handy, as it reduces the length of p3, thus meaning less fire, and making it easier for your add tank, as he will have more room. Due to counter mechanics, it's unlikely you'll be able to push a 3rd crackle in phase 1 without a significant risk of onxyia blowing up.

My guild usually pushes a crackle in p2, when nearly all of the adds are down. We wait for people's hp levels to be stable, and try and blow CD's on each platform (example: Disc priest bubbles, Resto shammy pops Spirit link totem with a mage IB at full HP, druid pops tree/tranquility) as well as having people use internal CD's to mitigate damage, Barkskin, Detterence, Dispersion, IB, Cloak, anything that reduces damage taken/grants immunity is a big help if pushing a p2 crackle.

---------- Post added 2011-06-17 at 03:42 PM ----------

Epic smily faces btw :P