Rogues - 4.2 - Cos and Combat Readiness

[Unferth]

Was Rogue survivability a major problem?

If, and I said "if", rogues were doing to much damage one can understand a damage nerf. But were Rogues living too much?

[Nose Nuggets]

if oh-shait buttons were off CD, they could get away from most battles. its not uncommon to see rogues with top 5 damage or kills and no deaths in random bgs.

rogue damage got a buff.

[Resentful]

if oh-shait buttons were off CD, they could get away from most battles. its not uncommon to see rogues with top 5 damage or kills and no deaths in random bgs.

rogue damage got a buff.

A band-aid buff mind you

Passive damage WOOHOOO ! The one thing that they wanted to get rid of

[Nose Nuggets]

A band-aid buff mind you

Passive damage WOOHOOO ! The one thing that they wanted to get rid of

i think it was a token effort because rogues are unrepresented, complain about damage, but got nerfed. so, whatever. i cant think of many things more frustrating then a sub rogue with all his CD's. it feels like endless stunlock.

then blind and run away.

[Unferth]

I think the Hemo buff is to make damage on par with Backstab. Trying to hit someones back in pvp all the time is next to impossible. Anyone with half a brain knows to face someone who is killing you, this way Sub can use Hemo to be competitive.

[Speaknoevil]

if oh-shait buttons were off CD, they could get away from most battles. its not uncommon to see rogues with top 5 damage or kills and no deaths in random bgs.

rogue damage got a buff.

random bgs matter

[Deleted]

Rogue dont need dmg buff in pvp, the Hemo Buff only lower the skillcap for almost 90% of rogues. And the nerf at Clos shared with CR is just stupid, There are many situations in the arena where rogues will suffer, especially the teams with a druid or caster-melee-heal
In fact there was no need to change (on the PvP),perhaps lower the amount of recuperate heal of a 1%

[Deleted]

Talking about rogue damage, I did 8k eviscerate with 5pt on warrior. 8k...

[Deleted]

Talking about rogue damage, I did 8k eviscerate with 5pt on warrior. 8k...

and i 7k-9k backstab crit.....but 17k ambush in shadowdance UW prc and landslide <3 <3

[Unferth]

and i 7k-9k backstab crit.....but 17k ambush in shadowdance UW prc and landslide <3 <3

So Rogues need a perfect storm of procs and cooldowns to get 17k ambushes yet Warrior can get 17K crits on 3000+ resil without any procs or cooldowns?

Anyways this thread was about rogue survivability not comparing class damage.

[Talgmar]

Rogue nerfs was uncalled for.

The small insignificant dmg buff doesnt make or break the rogue.


The main problem is that people seem to think of rogue as a plate melee class, forgetting that we are squishy if not using our defencive cooldowns.
Its all about timeing the kill on a rogue, you cant just expect to nuke a rogue from 100% to 0% without the rogue popping the defensive abilities.

Rogues has always been a bitchy class to play against, cause it feels so annoying beeing stunned and if you survive that, the rogue might just bail before he dies.

This is ofc a l2p issue, but sadly blizz crumbles from the pressure of the noob-players qq'ing and are trying to satisfy even the worst player (unless its about frostmage).

[TheOccidio]

So Rogues need a perfect storm of procs and cooldowns to get 17k ambushes yet Warrior can get 17K crits on 3000+ resil without any procs or cooldowns?

Anyways this thread was about rogue survivability not comparing class damage.

It's always like that, if it wasn't Warriors and DKs would actually require some thought to play.

Pretty much any Rogue comp other then RMP will be replacing the Rogue with a Feral Druid this season.

[Deleted]

It's fine, rogues will be viable even after the nerf.

[Snakebite]

it's disappointing to see purely because the actual nerf is so stupid.

clos and CR defend against two totally different forms of attack, so once anybody sees that you've blown, say, cloak, the team can switch immediately to focus melee damage on you and you wont have that extra survivability.

also, cloak will almost always be used as it provides a vital gap closer/dot shed/snare break (except against warriors or opposing rogues).

maybe we did need a survivability nerf (i personally don't think we did based on our low damage) but they could have made it more binary

[Reith]

Rogue nerfs was uncalled for.

Why wasn't it called for? You think this change will destroy Rogues' competitiveness? lol. If it doesn't, then I don't see why you're complaining.

The main problem is that people seem to think of rogue as a plate melee class, forgetting that we are squishy if not using our defencive cooldowns.

There's a huge problem with that statement: Combat Rogues have more armor than me. Seriously. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

[Coldkil]

In fact, they are trying to get rid of Combat Readiness, as it is and will remain a crappy cd. The only thing good of it is the animation.

[Deleted]

So not only do they remove CR, they increase the cooldown on cloak.

The issue I would guess is that people (noobs) are used to just nuke down a rogue while he cant do shit like in wotlk. But now that we can actually survive anything they just qq because some rogue killed their precious warrior in a duel, claiming rogues are faceroll while its pretty much one of the few classes that has to setup their damage.

[Rixxe]

Has anyone played a game in Arena?

At even slightly decent ratings (i.e rogues who are not bad) it's hardly ever a good idea to try and kill a rogue because they were so hard to actually get down. With all the CD's its like you had to go on the partners of the Rogue.

Not to mention, Vanish + Regen anyone? Not like you can't get away, and god forbid using Evasion/Cloak/Gouge and all the other abilities you have to stop taking damage.

Before anyone states this: Every class can die in a stun/throwdown, so that isnt a valid argument.

[Jubite]

Has anyone played a game in Arena?

Why yes I have

At even slightly decent ratings (i.e rogues who are not bad) it's hardly ever a good idea to try and kill a rogue because they were so hard to actually get down. With all the CD's its like you had to go on the partners of the Rogue.

2 swaps and they had no defensive CDs unless you force them to pop vanish, which is a major DPS/control loss

Not to mention, Vanish + Regen anyone? Not like you can't get away, and god forbid using Evasion/Cloak/Gouge and all the other abilities you have to stop taking damage.

Yea I dont think it works that way

This change just makes it so you choose your poison. It used to be nice building CR stacks from a pet when under caster pressure or poping CoS for the mobility against DKs, but now we just need to buckle down and feel for the game. In honesty, its frustrating but also relatively nice. Im a big fan that CoS is now off the GCD, as it is a bit more forgiving on offensive CoS. I'm just hoping that when S10 rolls around it wont be like WoTLK where the rogues were often the focus.

[Deleted]

Has anyone played a game in Arena?

At even slightly decent ratings (i.e rogues who are not bad) it's hardly ever a good idea to try and kill a rogue because they were so hard to actually get down. With all the CD's its like you had to go on the partners of the Rogue.

Not to mention, Vanish + Regen anyone? Not like you can't get away, and god forbid using Evasion/Cloak/Gouge and all the other abilities you have to stop taking damage.

Before anyone states this: Every class can die in a stun/throwdown, so that isnt a valid argument.

Exaggeration, to kill a rogue you need to think a bit before you try to nuke him. You cant ram your melee cleave down on them. You get them to pop offensive cloak or you just switch to them 2 times. Is it so terrible that you can´t kill the rogue at any time you desire? Why not just stick at his partners? If you don´t kill him in first switch, get him the next time, MAYBE the rogue team outplayed your melee cleave?

For casters its rather simple, get the cloak and he is a viable kill target, if he vanishes, excellent time to switch since his partner/s are not getting any peels to help them out.