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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    So no, there isn't really a perfect trinket list. You're welcome to ask "what about X vs. Y" and give your info if you need help deciding on a trinket, and there's plenty of posters who are willing to discuss it with you.
    Well what trinkets are you aiming for ?
    I'm going with Baleroc hc and DMC:Volcano. Theralion's Mirror hc is rated higher, but I've seen a few procs go to waste entirely due to no orb proccing. Well, in previous tier at least. It's pretty hard to not get advantage from the Int proc from the Darkmoon Card... What's your opinion on this?

    Also: I've just picked up a helmet from Rhyolith hc, haste/crit. I know that isn't ideal (prefer haste/mastery or haste/spirit) but I think I'm going for this random 391 helm and the upgraded t12 gloves when I get a token. I'm going for this setup because it's very unlikely for us to kill Ragnaros heroic in this tier and because both items to change the setup are dropping from that same boss anyways. Any comments?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Omirr View Post
    Well what trinkets are you aiming for ?
    I'm going with Baleroc hc and DMC:Volcano. Theralion's Mirror hc is rated higher, but I've seen a few procs go to waste entirely due to no orb proccing. Well, in previous tier at least. It's pretty hard to not get advantage from the Int proc from the Darkmoon Card... What's your opinion on this?
    I would think that TM's value tends to decrease in fights where you have to move a lot or trigger mechanics that don't let you sit still to maximize the MB/DoT DPS from the proc. It'd be awesome for fights like Beth (drone focusing) if you're below or Baleroc, but it'd suck at times during Rag or add duty for Ryolith. TM's value is entirely dependent on how efficient you are at stretching the stronger Empowered Shadows from the proc, and RNG orbs don't help much. I'm using the Baleroc trinket and DMC as well, but I've never been lucky enough for TM to drop. =( Maybe 15 kills now, dropped once and it was given to the boomkin forever ago. /sigh

    Also: I've just picked up a helmet from Rhyolith hc, haste/crit. I know that isn't ideal (prefer haste/mastery or haste/spirit) but I think I'm going for this random 391 helm and the upgraded t12 gloves when I get a token. I'm going for this setup because it's very unlikely for us to kill Ragnaros heroic in this tier and because both items to change the setup are dropping from that same boss anyways. Any comments?
    I'm still using the eldritch authority helm; crit's not ideal, but that should still be a decent upgrade, especially if you're at the 30% haste plateau anyway. Just do reforges to mastery/spirit, whichever you need. The lack of cloth helm options sucks, especially with so many clothies after them. It's understandable to use it, especially since DPS usually don't get such RNG items before healers do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  3. #103
    Mechagnome Veiled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    You should really get a G-Slate like I have. <3 it so much thus far.
    I will accept one for Christmas, thank you.

    MoP Guides, Raiding and Pre-Raiding BiS Lists, Theorycrafting, Healing/DPS Help & More!

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Veiled View Post
    I will accept one for Christmas, thank you.
    If he gives you a G-Slate can I haz your IPad plz?

    ZuZU, have you used the http://www.wowhead.com/item=68925 at all? Also, I don't like you as much anymore because you have the Baleroc trink... (not really but I like to qq)

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Also, I don't like you as much anymore because you have the Baleroc trink... (not really but I like to qq)
    I was 5th in line for that damn trinket. First it went to an arcane mage. Made me twitch, but oh well. Then the aff lock. Well at least he's a DoT class. Then the boomkin. Okay, but at least he's awesome DPS and had a sad 359 (bell from arch). Then an offspec fire mage, not cool. Finally me... last week. After like 8 kills.

    Blah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  6. #106
    Well that's just completely ridiculous. Our arcane doesn't even want it... which is moot because Baleroc refuses to drop it at all...

  7. #107
    Mechagnome Veiled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    I was 5th in line for that damn trinket. First it went to an arcane mage. Made me twitch, but oh well. Then the aff lock. Well at least he's a DoT class. Then the boomkin. Okay, but at least he's awesome DPS and had a sad 359 (bell from arch). Then an offspec fire mage, not cool. Finally me... last week. After like 8 kills.

    Blah.
    That's silly.. you should go get that mages trinket from Sinestra and rub it in, IMO.

    MoP Guides, Raiding and Pre-Raiding BiS Lists, Theorycrafting, Healing/DPS Help & More!

  8. #108
    Posted a new version with the output from SimulationCraft 4.2.0-6 (NOTE: 4.2.0-7 is identical except for a hunter import bugfix).

    MAJOR change: I'm including two fairly new raid movement modifiers, in addition to Patchwerk and HelterSkelter: Raid Environment Movement Low (REML) and Raid Environment Movement High (REMH).

    REML adds the following line to the sim:
    Code:
    movement,players_only=1,first=53,cooldown=85,duration=7,last=360
    This tells SimC to have the player be moving for 7 seconds every 85 seconds, starting at the 53 second mark, and cancel this action once you reach 360 seconds. This translates in to, effectively, a 3-phase fight where the first and third phases are stand still/patchwerk style, and where the second phase has a predictable/timed movement section. Lots of fights follow this kind of setup (any fight where you have to clump for healing is a perfect example).

    REMH adds the following lines to the sim:
    Code:
    movement,players_only=1,first=10,cooldown=10,duration=4
    This tells SimC that starting at second 10 in the sim until the sim ends, every following 10 seconds the player will be moving for 4 of it, I.E.: 40% total fight time spent moving. There have been many fights in WoW's history that follow similar philosophies (Firefighter, Halfus, Shannox if you're running all over the place, etc.).

    Including these two new sim types has really thrown the stat weights for a loop since during a high mobility fight missed spells can be costly.


    EDIT: In case anyone is wondering, here's a table containing the scaling values for each of the 8 sims:

    Code:
    Profile 			Int 	Spi 	SP 	Hit 	Crit 	Haste 	Mast		Int N	Spi N	SP N	Hit N	Crit N	Haste N	Mast N	DPS N
    Priest_Shadow_T12H 		3.5537	1.8683	2.7414	1.8662	1.7151	2.0176	1.7952		1.0000	0.5257	0.7714	0.5251	0.4826	0.5677	0.5052	0.2814
    Priest_Shadow_T12H_2dot 	4.5781	2.1369	3.5221	2.1405	2.1714	2.5980	2.3822		1.0000	0.4668	0.7693	0.4676	0.4743	0.5675	0.5203	0.2184
    Priest_Shadow_T12H-HS 		3.0024	1.8479	2.3092	1.8562	1.4150	1.9214	1.3644		1.0000	0.6155	0.7691	0.6182	0.4713	0.6400	0.4544	0.3331
    Priest_Shadow_T12H_2dot-HS 	3.9864	2.5506	2.9138	2.5590	1.7829	2.4823	1.8259		1.0000	0.6398	0.7309	0.6419	0.4472	0.6227	0.4580	0.2509
    Priest_Shadow_T12H-REML		3.5294	1.9354	2.7225	1.9363	1.7048	1.9717	1.7574		1.0000	0.5484	0.7714	0.5486	0.4830	0.5587	0.4979	0.2833
    Priest_Shadow_T12H_2dot-REML	4.7704	2.5212	3.4622	2.5229	2.1570	2.5215	2.2893		1.0000	0.5285	0.7258	0.5289	0.4522	0.5286	0.4799	0.2096
    Priest_Shadow_T12H-REMH		3.5463	2.3617	2.4887	2.3692	1.5260	1.7144	1.3967		1.0000	0.6660	0.7018	0.6681	0.4303	0.4834	0.3938	0.2820
    Priest_Shadow_T12H_2dot-REMH	5.0455	3.6689	3.1422	3.6732	1.9290	1.4758	1.8645		1.0000	0.7272	0.6228	0.7280	0.3823	0.2925	0.3695	0.1982
    																
    AVG				4.0015	2.3614	2.9128	2.3654	1.8002	2.0878	1.8345		1.0000	0.5901	0.7279	0.5911	0.4499	0.5218	0.4584	0.2499

  9. #109
    Looking at the data in that last post, it looks like Hit/Spi rises greatly in high-movement fights, particularly if you're double-dotting. Haste is a bit more funky; it's highest for Helter-Skelter, but lowest for REMH... Hit I can see making a difference because in a HM fight, you don't have as much time to recast a missed VT refresh, and less MB's overall means missing those hurts DPS more (particularly if you have t12 4pc). I don't get the haste variations though. Anyone have any insight?
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    Looking at the data in that last post, it looks like Hit/Spi rises greatly in high-movement fights, particularly if you're double-dotting. Haste is a bit more funky; it's highest for Helter-Skelter, but lowest for REMH... Hit I can see making a difference because in a HM fight, you don't have as much time to recast a missed VT refresh, and less MB's overall means missing those hurts DPS more (particularly if you have t12 4pc). I don't get the haste variations though. Anyone have any insight?
    Before I dive in, let me post the action sequence for HelterSkelter and explain what it means:

    Code:
    casting,cooldown=30,duration=3,first=15
    movement,cooldown=30,duration=5
    stun,cooldown=60,duration=2
    invulnerable,cooldown=120,duration=3
    From the SimulationCraft help guides, HelterSkelter is "...a crazy fight will every possible raid event...". As you can see, it has movement (move for 5 seconds every 30 seconds), stuns (you're stunned for 2 seconds every 60 seconds), and the boss is invulnerable to damage (3 seconds every 120 seconds). The first line, "casting", defines that the boss is casting an ability that needs to be interrupted by the player. Since we don't have any interrupt abilities, this doesn't do anything for us.

    SimulationCraft has A LOT of other raid event types that aren't included in any of my sims, such as adds being present, damage/heals to a raid, being distracted (I.E.: for a defined period, the sim doesn't play as well to simulate a time when you can't focus on a proper rotation/priority casting list), and using more complicated methods for timing movement (such as using standard deviations to vary the frequency and length of events).


    What I've noticed in general is that when you introduce movement in to a fight, the value of haste tanks because you get less casts in (in general), especially fewer Mind Flays. HelterSkelter is very different than both Patchwerk and REML/REMH in that it has stuns involved. My best guess would be that haste's value rises on HS fights because your DoTs keep rolling on their target even when you're stunned, and, it reduces the amount of time to ramp back up once the stun wears off.

  11. #111
    I agree. The more you move, the more your damage relies on your dots. And your dots prefer haste than mastery or crit. On the other hand, mind blast prefers mastery and crit, because no matter the ammounts of haste you've stacked, the 6 secs CD remains. So if you need to move, your dots deal almost the same damage and they need haste, but you can't cast MB as often as you'd like so mastery and crit lose importance.

    No maths behind this, just my humble thoughts and opinions, so I might be wrong at all.

  12. #112
    Both make some sense, thanks for the replies. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  13. #113
    Any news on the stealth buff to Variable Pulse trinket?

    This should properly replace DMC:V as our BiS

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by slimatic View Post
    Any news on the stealth buff to Variable Pulse trinket?

    This should properly replace DMC:V as our BiS
    yeah I'm curious about this too. there's a bit of discussion in the boomy forum about it http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ning-Capacitor but we need one here. I don't have the trinket myself though so I can't test anything :P

  15. #115
    Twin and some of the others are looking into it and trying to figure out how much of a difference it actually is. I am personally vaguely afraid this is an accident and they will hotfix it ><

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Twin and some of the others are looking into it and trying to figure out how much of a difference it actually is. I am personally vaguely afraid this is an accident and they will hotfix it ><
    I really doubt it.

    I don't think they planned on a 359 trinket to outperform one that drops off the next tiers last boss, hell even the heroic version too.

    Early reports indicate a 500 dps increase, which is significant but not "omg overpowered". It's what should be expected from a trinket off a last boss. I'm still interested to see how it works out.
    Last edited by slimatic; 2011-09-07 at 07:21 AM.

  17. #117
    I agree... I just tend to not trust things that happen but weren't announced So often they come back and take those things away.

  18. #118

  19. #119
    Guys currently I have Dmc:v and Theralion's Mirror (Normal). But I recently won Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor so I should trade Theralion's Mirror for it right?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Suneca View Post
    Guys currently I have Dmc:v and Theralion's Mirror (Normal). But I recently won Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor so I should trade Theralion's Mirror for it right?
    Absolutely. If you had Theralion's Mirror (Heroic), that'd be more of a tossup though.

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