[Shadow] Best Raid Gear Available - 4.2.0

[Keosen]

Sorry I offended you so horribly with my bad choice of words... let me try again... while you are in the process of gearing up to the BiS gear is is very easy depending on what pieces you get in what order to fall under 30% Haste (especially if you are not a Goblin or don't get DI) and/or the Hit cap. Is that better for you?

---------- Post added 2011-09-09 at 10:45 AM ----------


Hmm, Arlee is grumpy in the morning before her coffee... anywho, I was just wondering to myself about why the term "Haste Cap" suddenly doesn't bother me so much anymore. I think the reason boils down to that once you get past the 30% haste point (if you don't get DI) it doesn't actually make much difference at all if you keep stacking haste after there or start trying to add on more mastery. Both ways work out really well. Heck with the capacitor changes it might workout to being worthwhile to stack more crit if you have that trink.

So yea, I don't think referring to it as a cap is a huge deal. I mean sure someone new might get confused and think that if they got at all over 30% haste then they are wasting a stat... but idk... part of being a good spriest is really understanding the whys of what works as opposed to just doing what people say. I mean the way spriests work in a lot of ways is based on knowing what to do if something else happens/is the case. It's hard to always make the correct choice in these situations though unless you understand the why's behind the options.

Anywho, that's just my thoughts on it

I was not intended to offend you , sorry if i did, i don't know why you react in this way.
I was somewhat joking

[Redsparowe]

Few questions about the ideas being thrown around in here and elsewhere on the interwebs.

Whilst I understand the advantage of having 2589 haste I fail to understand why it's mentioned so often. I've not seen a sim where the value of haste changes so much it actually effects gearing in any significant way (haste reaching 0.5int changes gemming, and the value of haste vs mastery can change the glove enchant, what else is there?). It seems very simple to determine if 50haste vs 65mastery for yourself, and if 20haste>10int.

I've also seen talk about haste > crit/mastery above 2589 with DI but not without, sup with that? How does that really make any difference other than increasing your haste on gear improves the haste benefit from DI?

On the chart so kindly linked so many times it mentions the haste value required for DP to gain it's extra tick is the same with and without DI, surely that's not the case? (Just curious, it doesn't make any difference)

[Arlee]

I was not intended to offend you , sorry if i did, i don't know why you react in this way.
I was somewhat joking

Yea I am sorry about that... I made the second post because after I was confused why I did that. I think I am going to blame it on not enough sleep and waking up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday. Sorry for snapping at you

[Twintop]

Few questions about the ideas being thrown around in here and elsewhere on the interwebs.

Whilst I understand the advantage of having 2589 haste I fail to understand why it's mentioned so often. I've not seen a sim where the value of haste changes so much it actually effects gearing in any significant way (haste reaching 0.5int changes gemming, and the value of haste vs mastery can change the glove enchant, what else is there?). It seems very simple to determine if 50haste vs 65mastery for yourself, and if 20haste>10int.

I've also seen talk about haste > crit/mastery above 2589 with DI but not without, sup with that? How does that really make any difference other than increasing your haste on gear improves the haste benefit from DI?

On the chart so kindly linked so many times it mentions the haste value required for DP to gain it's extra tick is the same with and without DI, surely that's not the case? (Just curious, it doesn't make any difference)

There's a lot going on in the game with regards to how haste effects each spell. First, let me re-link Kilee's charts to put this all in context:





If you look at the datapoints (specifically, the rapid rise and fall before the VT+2 ticks point), you see that it shifts significantly to the left when you have DI vs. when you don't. What seems to go un-noticed is that the trend of haste also shifts for the rest of the time (until Imp. DP+2) with DI, making it always much better than any other stat, while on the non-DI chart it drops below Mastery and Hit at certain points. It is because of this static increase of haste because of DI that it moves the value (comparing the two) ~450 haste value to the left when nothing else changes.

For Imp. DP +2, the difference is that the value of the improved DP hit value doesn't scale with outside buffs, including DI, so its value won't change if you have DI or not (same with Imp DP+1).

[Redsparowe]

-snip-

Thanks for the clarification there. I believe I missed where it said 'imp' DP Honestly I wasn't even aware this scaled with haste from gaining ticks.

[CaseyTheRetard]

...The first line, "casting", defines that the boss is casting an ability that needs to be interrupted by the player. Since we don't have any interrupt abilities, this doesn't do anything for us.

The "casting" raid event is implemented as a buff on the enemy and a simultaneous raid-wide interrupt. It doesn't do anything for us, but it does something TO us.

I'm not happy with the implementation of raid events in simulationcraft: in general, they have "weirdness" in them like that due to the basic model being a synchronous one with no good way to represent external events. I think movement events specifically don't model reality well at all: very rarely in a raid do I have to immediately stop what I'm doing and move for a fixed interval of time. Usually movement requires you to go a fixed distance before a finite deadline. When I realize I'm going to have to move 12 yards in the next 10 seconds, I don't instantly drop what I'm doing and run 12 yards. I finish my cast and stutter-step my way over keeping dots refreshed and casting MB.

[Twintop]

The "casting" raid event is implemented as a buff on the enemy and a simultaneous raid-wide interrupt. It doesn't do anything for us, but it does something TO us.

Good to know! Thanks for the clarification on this.

I'm not happy with the implementation of raid events in simulationcraft: in general, they have "weirdness" in them like that due to the basic model being a synchronous one with no good way to represent external events. I think movement events specifically don't model reality well at all: very rarely in a raid do I have to immediately stop what I'm doing and move for a fixed interval of time. Usually movement requires you to go a fixed distance before a finite deadline. When I realize I'm going to have to move 12 yards in the next 10 seconds, I don't instantly drop what I'm doing and run 12 yards. I finish my cast and stutter-step my way over keeping dots refreshed and casting MB.

I wonder what it would take to include more custom raid events inside SimulationCraft...I guess that's why it is opensource, afterall. I might have to try and hack on the code some.

Just about the only time I can think of when you're going to have to move X yards in Y seconds every Z seconds (I.E. something like REMH) is during Majordomo's cat phase, and even then I don't know if the current capabilities in SimulationCraft could accurately model the randomness around how often you get leaped at/on.

[Ultima]

I thought about (and had typed out) witty responses to Ultima's post, but then I thought someone might take it as serious advice from me so I erased it.

Oh mate

Now I'll never know how to gear.

[Twintop]

All of the items datamined today are included in a working 4.3.0 BiS list. If anyone wants to take a gander at it, I'll be updating it as more info comes along:

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=724

[Redsparowe]

What happened here, where did the stat weights go? OMG PANIC \o/

[Arlee]

Not entirely sure... at least we are almost at the end of 4.2 anyways... I guess.

[CaseyTheRetard]

Not entirely sure... at least we are almost at the end of 4.2 anyways... I guess.

All of Twintop's posts have been deleted over on howtopriest.com as well. I've seen people quit and just disappear before, but this is weird.

[InfernalDark]

Dammit, I want the list back

[Arlee]

Closed since the OP deleted the List which makes this thread pretty useless.