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  1. #1

    Censorship on MMO-Champion and Forum Guidelines

    In recent weeks it has become quite apparent that the rules of censorship have become very open to interpretation when it comes to locking topics on these boards.

    I can understand the need to curb flame-wars and put a stop to spammers and trolls.

    But here have to be clear guide-lines on what is what. Especially because I feel that the Mods recently have adopted a rather bitter attitude to the large amounts of Blizzard-critical posts in recent months.

    In fact, I just came back from a 3 day ban for starting a thread on how to put the 12 Mio. subs into perspective.

    Or just a moment ago a thread was closed for discussing quotes on the official forums: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Soviet-Russia

    Now the offocial guide-lines state:

    The following subjects are not allowed on MMO-Champion:

    • Gold-selling/Account selling or trading websites
    • Buying or selling of items in-game or in real life
    • Keyloggers
    • Hoaxes/phishing websites
    • Activities considered illegal by Blizzard Entertainment (botting, hacking, cheating, exploiting,...)
    • Politics
    • Religion
    • Nationalism (Example: US vs. EU threads)
    • Pornography
    • Content that is considered illegal by law
    And yet we debate Politics and Religion on a regular base in the Off-Topics and despite heated debates, the discussions mostly remain within reason.

    About trolling

    This includes but is not necessarily limited to the following:

    * Excessively communicating the same phrase, similar phrases, or pure gibberish
    * Creating threads for the sole purpose of causing unrest on the forums
    * Causing disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that ruin the thread, insulting other posters
    * Making non-constructive posts
    * Abusing the Reported Post feature by sending false alarms or nonsensical messages
    * Numbering a thread, IBTL, TLDR, or any other fad statements
    * Thread-necro: Reviving an old thread for no reason other than bumping it to the first page
    * Replying to a thread simply to call the author a troll (regardless of whether the post is actually trolling)
    * Don't abuse or misquote Blizzquotes.
    Again, the general problem is that many of those points are either very open to interpretation or simply aren't enforced. Personally I have no problem not having them enforced but then at least make it official. I mean, I'm pretty sure I could browse MMO-Champion at any time of the day and find at least 3-5 Non-Constructive posts on the front-page. It's not a problem, but again, make it official.

    13.3. Use the search function before creating a new thread
    On an active community such as MMO-Champion, a lot of new threads are made every day. So before you start making your own thread about a topic, first use the forum search function to ensure that nobody else has already recently created a thread about the topic you wish to post about.

    Quite often, a similar thread already exists, and there really is no point in restarting a discussion in a separate thread when a subject can be discussed in one thread.
    So we're supposed to use the search function, yet bumping and necroing threads is prohibited? Sounds a little contradictory to me.

    And let's face it. Not many people use the search function to begin with.


    Now I realize I could be infracted for disregarding
    11. Discussing disciplinary actions, moderators or Moderator actions
    Actions taken against a member of the community are not to be discussed in public on the forums. Opinions about specific moderators or moderator actions (locking, deleting threads, etc) are also not to be discussed in posts or threads.

    If you have questions, remarks, suggestions or complaints about moderating in general or specific moderators, please contact our website admin through a private message.

    If you have questions, remarks, suggestions or complaints about a moderation action, such as a ban, deletion or lock, feel free to contact the moderator in question, or any moderator on our team.
    ...but that really isn't the point of this thread.


    I acknowledge that moderating such an active board is never going to be easy, but I would like to encourage a revision of the posting guidelines and a clearer distinction between what is acceptable and what is not. The guidelines were probably written a long time before MMO-Champion evolved into what it is today (afaik the 2nd most active WoW community aside from the official forums). The guidelines just need to be brought up-to-date and exclude things that you aren't realistically able to enforce and to include more recent trends (no idea what those might be though, possibly a Titan sub-forum?)

    I think part of the solution is accepting MMO-Champion for what it is, and not trying to make it the way you want it. MMO-Champion threads are generally very short-lived and all boards are highly frequented. The same questions will be asked on a regular basis and will fall of the first page just as quickly as they're posed. It's just what makes these forums what they are.

    We aren't elitistjerks.com here and we should try to be. We come here to discuss EVERY aspect of WoW without the threat of censorship including various other nerd-friendly topics.

    And that is all I'm asking for.

  2. #2
    And this will be locked too. Shocker!

    EDIT: Sad to see someone with a large post list go.

    REEDIT: Or it will just be moved. :/
    Last edited by Pebrocks The Warlock; 2011-07-01 at 02:53 AM.
    End SJW
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  3. #3
    Too long, I didn't read

    Infracted; quote removed.

  4. #4
    I was surprised and thought it was an extremely over-zealous moderator abusing power to have locked the Blizzard = Soviet Russia thread. While Blizzard's response is somewhat understandable (still seems thinly veiled as just a way to hush QQ), there is no explanation as to why it was banned here. Is MMO-Champion also turning into a place where you cannot say anything negative about Blizzard? It's getting rather silly to be honest.

  5. #5
    You have to be the baddest motherfucker in the world if you wanna post on the MMO-champion msg boards.

    I have been banned 8 times and am working on my ninth.

    The proper response to dissent is not more bias.

  6. #6
    Epic! Skelly's Avatar
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    A thread called "Blizzard = Soviet Russia" has 0% of being an acceptable discussion. Thank god we have moderators to censor it.
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  7. #7
    It was only really the title that was a bit iffy - not hard to change a title and keep it open, if indeed it is out of bounds.

  8. #8
    That link you posted has the title "Blizzard = Soviet Russia", and starts out with the sentence "World of Warcraft was ruined when the dungeon finder was added..."

    It's just your typical player whose only form of communication involves getting on the drama llama. How are you supposed to discuss a topic that starts out like that? It's designed, from the very title, to try and irritate rather than communicate. There's a big difference between constructive, reasoned criticism and "omg, Blizzard's just a bunch of commies!!!"

    In a case like that, there's nothing in the "censorship" that's open to interpretation. It's just the simple act of taking crying, wailing child out of the movie theater.

  9. #9
    While I don't usually enjoy the heavy amount of moderation this site has I think they should tone it down a bit because if you get well know for being a major forum site with alot of strict moderation and rule enforcement you may find yourself getting a visit from your friendly neighborhood lulzsec.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Silver
    "Now, you listen to me, James Hawkins. You got the makings of greatness in you, but you got to take the helm and chart your own course. Stick to it, no matter the squalls! And when the time comes you get the chance to really test the cut of your sails, and show what you're made of! Well, I hope I'm there, catching some of the light coming off you that day."

  10. #10
    Just because MMO-Champion isn't Elitistjerks doesn't mean that the forums have to be a giant Blizzard pitchforkfest. The site is mostly a WoW site and there's little value in people posting just to piss on the parade.

    When someone posts "Blizzard = Soviet Russia", there's no way the thread will be constructive, it's just a giant attentionwhoring attempt with a catchy title that won't bring any constructive discussion. I'm fine with good discussions when Blizzard screws up, with people bringing up their points and stuff, but going batshit crazy on the moderation just because they lock the kind of thread you mentioned is really unfair.

    Concerning your last infraction, you basically came up with data to try to tell people that ... every MMORPG is a WoW killer, huh, ok? I mean, what's the point, where's the discussion in that? "HEY GUYS YOU RE ALL GOING TO DIE"? Okay.

    The amount of WoW subscribers has been fairly stable over the past 3 years, the game is far from dying and we really don't need people predicting the end of the world every 3 days on the forums.

    Also, you forgot the Korean playerbase in your stats, but I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahms View Post
    That link you posted has the title "Blizzard = Soviet Russia", and starts out with the sentence "World of Warcraft was ruined when the dungeon finder was added..."

    It's just your typical player whose only form of communication involves getting on the drama llama. How are you supposed to discuss a topic that starts out like that? It's designed, from the very title, to try and irritate rather than communicate. There's a big difference between constructive, reasoned criticism and "omg, Blizzard's just a bunch of commies!!!"

    In a case like that, there's nothing in the "censorship" that's open to interpretation. It's just the simple act of taking crying, wailing child out of the movie theater.
    Did you actually read beyond that? He stated an opinion and uses the following block of sentences to make his case. It's not very dramatic tbh.

    The mod post: We are not interested in this thread here either, who is this "we" he or she speaks of? I think she/he meant "I" because, WE implies they speak for the whole community, which kinda is weird.

    Edit: Unless its the royal, "we" then I would be mistake i guess.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Just because MMO-Champion isn't Elitistjerks doesn't mean that the forums have to be a giant Blizzard pitchforkfest. The site is mostly a WoW site and there's little value in people posting just to piss on the parade.

    When someone posts "Blizzard = Soviet Russia", there's no way the thread will be constructive, it's just a giant attentionwhoring attempt with a catchy title that won't bring any constructive discussion. I'm fine with good discussions when Blizzard screws up, with people bringing up their points and stuff, but going batshit crazy on the moderation just because they lock the kind of thread you mentioned is really unfair.

    Concerning your last infraction, you basically came up with data to try to tell people that ... every MMORPG is a WoW killer, huh, ok? I mean, what's the point, where's the discussion in that? "HEY GUYS YOU RE ALL GOING TO DIE"? Okay.

    The amount of WoW subscribers has been fairly stable over the past 3 years, the game is far from dying and we really don't need people predicting the end of the world every 3 days on the forums.

    Also, you forgot the Korean playerbase in your stats, but I'm just being a smart ass at this point.
    I was expecting a mod to show up eventually but not boub. Damn you and your logic I'm actually inclined to agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Silver
    "Now, you listen to me, James Hawkins. You got the makings of greatness in you, but you got to take the helm and chart your own course. Stick to it, no matter the squalls! And when the time comes you get the chance to really test the cut of your sails, and show what you're made of! Well, I hope I'm there, catching some of the light coming off you that day."

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Calzaeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    It was only really the title that was a bit iffy - not hard to change a title and keep it open, if indeed it is out of bounds.
    Why shouldn't we, the posters, be expected to follow the posting guidelines to begin with, instead of suggesting that mods keep threads civil for us?

    OT: I believe the censorship is because the majority of posters here (me included, occasionally) tend to be overly aggressive, and I've yet to see a single thread without namecalling in it. Censorship is needed as long as people can't behave.

    As to prohibited actions that go unpunished, let me make one thing clear: The size of the MMO-Champion staff would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY bigger if they were to read every single post, in ever single thread, in every single sub-forum. If no-one reports, rulebreakers go free. So please, for the love of everything Unholy, REPORT!

    Finally, as a quick reminder: It's easier to adapt to rules than to adapt the rules to suit you.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I don't think you're having so much a thought but rather complete mental diarrhea all over the internet and your keyboard and it's not pretty or even logical.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamiel View Post
    While I don't usually enjoy the heavy amount of moderation this site has I think they should tone it down a bit because if you get well know for being a major forum site with alot of strict moderation and rule enforcement you may find yourself getting a visit from your friendly neighborhood lulzsec.
    You're making me regret posting in this thread.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    In fact, I just came back from a 3 day ban for starting a thread on how to put the 12 Mio. subs into perspective.
    By "put into perspective" you mean "THIS DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY SO". The fun part being when people responded by asking questions of your grand statement you didn't respond to any of them and instead posted an out of date infographic.

    This is a forum, not a blog. If you're going to make a topic here be prepared to actually respond to those who respond to you.

    I also find it pretty entertaining you said most of the money from China goes to The9. That is the previous handler of WoW in China, which hasn't held the reins since before they got Wrath of The Lich King. The current one is NetEase.
    Or just a moment ago a thread was closed for discussing quotes on the official forums: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Soviet-Russia
    Yeah, how dare they close a topic made by someone making such a reasonable argument as Blizzard = Soviet state. Even without the comparison, mods have shown a tendency to close threads that complain about moderation on the WoW forums because they serve no purpose other than to bitch.
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  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickstarr View Post
    Wtf...?
    So would a thread named "Blizzard = Heaven" be acceptable?
    If so, it seems we can say anything about Blizzard that's positive, but we can't go to the other side of the spectrum and say what's "evil" about it?
    If so, THAT IS Soviet Russia.
    There is a difference in a topic praising something because majority of the time, it will end up with positive discussion. Yes, an actual discussion.

    "WAHHH I hate ____" will never turn into a good discussion.

    If a positive thread turns into a bitch match, we'll close it. The tone of an OP sets the whole thread. Pretty simple concept.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Once you stop taking the mods and rules on this site seriously, you'll probably find your stay more enjoyable. Shit happens, as they say, and it's helpful to keep that in perspective when you consider all the wonderful mods that grace this site. On top of that, I really don't see the point in trying to get their attention or shout for reform because this site's just a collection of bored assholes talking shit, trolling, and fighting with each other (myself included). Do you really care about the "community" here or are you really just interested in making a scene?

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire djspinner's Avatar
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    When a moderator has to show up for a big post, they bring the best. Nice to see a Boub post.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Just because MMO-Champion isn't Elitistjerks doesn't mean that the forums have to be a giant Blizzard pitchforkfest. The site is mostly a WoW site and there's little value in people posting just to piss on the parade.

    When someone posts "Blizzard = Soviet Russia", there's no way the thread will be constructive, it's just a giant attentionwhoring attempt with a catchy title that won't bring any constructive discussion. I'm fine with good discussions when Blizzard screws up, with people bringing up their points and stuff, but going batshit crazy on the moderation just because they lock the kind of thread you mentioned is really unfair.

    Concerning your last infraction, you basically came up with data to try to tell people that ... every MMORPG is a WoW killer, huh, ok? I mean, what's the point, where's the discussion in that? "HEY GUYS YOU RE ALL GOING TO DIE"? Okay.

    The amount of WoW subscribers has been fairly stable over the past 3 years, the game is far from dying and we really don't need people predicting the end of the world every 3 days on the forums.

    Also, you forgot the Korean playerbase in your stats, but I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

    I'm sorry to see that the discussion here is again, evolving around the two examples I posted early on instead of focusing on what my post was really about: Arbitrary and bias application on the forum guidelines. I almost get the impression people didn't bother reading the whole thing.

    By "put into perspective" you mean "THIS DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY SO". The fun part being when people responded by asking questions of your grand statement you didn't respond to any of them and instead posted an out of date infographic.

    This is a forum, not a blog. If you're going to make a topic here be prepared to actually respond to those who respond to you.
    It's hard to respond to a discussion when the thread is closed within 10 minutes because of "trolling"???

    Let's be honest here, most threads started here about about personal opinions and more often then not, these are presented as facts. Sure, I might have used unreliable sources to make my point but at least I attempted to provide them in the first place. People generally accept 3rd party sites like WoL or raidbots as sources yet mine are taken under such scrutiny? Why?

    But again, I don;t really wish to discuss the details of my ban but rather the objective measures by which they are applied.

    I make many posts on these forums and claim that 98% of them are at least semi-constrictive. I was quite honestly really surprised to see myself banned and still haven't gotten a real response as to why.

  20. #20
    Epic! Kisuro's Avatar
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    Censorship? On a private owned forum?
    Good one!

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