druid tree of life

[Anathor]

When they announced that ToL was going to be a cd I think I teared a little.

When they announced that ToL was going to be a cd I decided to respec away from resto.

I'm not playing a druid to be in caster form all the time. The whole "you can see your gear" is stupid, first of all because all the other druid specs still use a specific form 100% of the time (bear, cat, moonkin), second because I see my gear all the time when doing business in town, archeology, etc.

They could have kept the ToL form and called the CD "empowered tree of life" (where we go taller and glow green or whatever).

Furthermore for this CD to be really useful, it should be made like Dash that doesn't fall off on shapeshifting.

[Cows For Life]

boomkins/cat/bear cant see most of there gear either, so the only point blizzard has is the cd thing, and they could have easily scaled back the talents in the tree a bit and given us another cd to match other classes

It may shock you to know that at one time, druids did not have to use a glorified owl skin as a crutch to cast balance spells and I'm not talking about the time before level 29.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 06:42 AM ----------

Then don't fucking play it, people rolled druid and rolled resto / balance because of the forms, if you don't like it, don't play it. Don't ruin it for others.

Druids didn't have tree or owl form when I made mine. All of my druids.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 06:44 AM ----------

but the whole damn point is for druids to shapeshift and stay in shapeshift...

Why did they bother adding it into the game at all? Balance and restoration druids gain no new abilities... they just shift into the form once and stay there forever. It's just a glorified clown suit at that point.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 06:57 AM ----------

And you're be 100% wrong. ToL was added in with the 2.0 patch and Moonkin form was around from the beginning. My first toon was a NE druid who I leveled up as balance (and raided MC & BWL as balance) back when druids could still use polearms before they got them taken away and she was in moonkin form at lvl 40 when you could get the talent which is the same level that it required to get shadow form for my priest. Also Hurricane was made baseline pretty early on. Innervate is what took forever to become baseline or so it seemed.

I was looking for an old talent tree from early on and the best I could find was 1.8 http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?vie...id=8&build=1.8 which is apparently when it was added in.

Moonkin was not around from the very beginning. Stop right there. It was several patches into the game before it was added (almost a year), at the same time Hurricane was made baseline.

Pretty sure polearms were also removed from the druid repetoire before the game went live.

You remember a lot of stuff incorrectly.

[Raugnaut]

Shirt of the Pretty Tree- When you equip this shirt, you are turned into your tree of life model, changing depending on race/glyphs. Mounting/shapeshifting suppresses this effect (What should be done with vanity polymorph effects and druids).

Get it through a fun-filled quest at lvl 50.

[Clawtrocity]

Shirt of the Pretty Tree- When you equip this shirt, you are turned into your tree of life model, changing depending on race/glyphs. Mounting/shapeshifting suppresses this effect (What should be done with vanity polymorph effects and druids).

Get it through a fun-filled quest at lvl 50.

On the bright side all druids regardless of spec will be able to use this...On the bad side all druids regardless of spec will be able to use this.

However this is a different solution to the problem and maybe Blizzard would want to go down this route.

[cquirki]

i think it was totally retarded to change the tree form thing. it worked great before. sure give us a cooldown but dont take away the tree form! the change was so unneeded! i play ferel and im in shapeshift form, i play boom and am in shapeshift form... so.... why did they make the only non shapeshifting druid the healer?!? doesn't make sense whatsoever!

i just cant beleive when devs complained that restos were the only ones that didnt see their gear. WRONG. its almost funny how incorrect it is.

[gaymer77]

Moonkin was not around from the very beginning. Stop right there. It was several patches into the game before it was added (almost a year), at the same time Hurricane was made baseline.

Pretty sure polearms were also removed from the druid repetoire before the game went live.

You remember a lot of stuff incorrectly.

Druids didn't lose polearms until the 13 or 1.4 patch and 1.8 wasn't "almost a year" after the game went live. Talk to any person who played a druid from the beginning and ask them if they ever used a polearm on the live game in vanilla and they'll inform you they were able to. Also I did correct myself of when druids got moonkin form but it wasn't "almost a year".

[Wendyclear]

I think people, especially those who do not play a Druid, are getting a bit carried away. Druids are shapeshifters and thats what the class revolves heavily around. One should at least recognize that before rolling a Druid. If you have such a problem with being in a shapeshift animal, then by all means, don't play one! Ive been playing mine since TBC now (mage vanilla) and I'm really indifferent to either resto form.

I healed TBC in tree and I liked it. Sometimes Id feel left out not being able to show off my glorious valor, but it didn't ruin my fun. And now, while I don't heal anymore, I have to say it's quite fun to see a Druid pop tree and become unstoppable for a while. I think it's a healthy CD time to get the best of both worlds, though of course it's always arguable about the other shapes being permanent.

Playing a Moonkin still to this day, Id have to say I like the form and what it's about. If gear is what has a lot of your feathers ruffled, then really Id have to say, grow a pair. The class has been this way and redesigning Druids around gear is not gonna happen for the other forms; it would really ruin what the class is about imo. Before or after your raid, go caster form and show off your mostly ugly gear, then go raid in your form and get work done.

[Cows For Life]

Druids didn't lose polearms until the 13 or 1.4 patch and 1.8 wasn't "almost a year" after the game went live. Talk to any person who played a druid from the beginning and ask them if they ever used a polearm on the live game in vanilla and they'll inform you they were able to. Also I did correct myself of when druids got moonkin form but it wasn't "almost a year".

I started playing about 6 months after release and had enough time to level a pair of druids to the level cap well before moonkin form was in the game. I was never able to train or equip polearms (I snagged a Grimlok's Charge from Uldaman once).

I just looked at the WoW wiki and according to that site, patch 1.8 came in October 2005. Game was released in NA in November 2004. So yes, you're remembering wrong.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 05:11 PM ----------

I think people, especially those who do not play a Druid, are getting a bit carried away. Druids are shapeshifters and thats what the class revolves heavily around. One should at least recognize that before rolling a Druid. If you have such a problem with being in a shapeshift animal, then by all means, don't play one! Ive been playing mine since TBC now (mage vanilla) and I'm really indifferent to either resto form.

I healed TBC in tree and I liked it. Sometimes Id feel left out not being able to show off my glorious valor, but it didn't ruin my fun. And now, while I don't heal anymore, I have to say it's quite fun to see a Druid pop tree and become unstoppable for a while. I think it's a healthy CD time to get the best of both worlds, though of course it's always arguable about the other shapes being permanent.

Playing a Moonkin still to this day, Id have to say I like the form and what it's about. If gear is what has a lot of your feathers ruffled, then really Id have to say, grow a pair. The class has been this way and redesigning Druids around gear is not gonna happen for the other forms; it would really ruin what the class is about imo. Before or after your raid, go caster form and show off your mostly ugly gear, then go raid in your form and get work done.

I remember the glorious days of nuking and healing in Wildheart gear. If going back to caster form ruffles your feathers that much, maybe you should get used to it because the class has always been that way before it has always been your way.

[ELEDIN]

They should have done at least something, like a glyph or anything for those who love tree form to stay permanent in the form without affecting sats just a cosmetic apearance. I loved the perma tree form and i miss it, and as much as i like the new cd i dont feel my druid as i feel it with perma tree, it last for so litle...

From the other hand i hope they do something with moonkin, revamp the form or make a glyph that make you look like keeper of the grove/dryad or something... As much as i learn to love moonkin form during time, i always imagine somthing better for balance druids than this form.
It doesnt make any sense that a druid take the form from a melee creature to became better casters. Also no notable druid in wow history ever use this form for any reason to cast spells. I would prefer wings and antles like malfurion or keeper of grove/dryad froms, something more dynamic and druidistic than moonkin would ever be.

[Ravenblade]

There was no single reason for why ToL was changed: There were many reasons and I believe gear was just a popular argument they used because let's face it many people are not much into game design and philosophies revolving around it. The looks and therefore the presentation sometimes carries a higher value than a deep and wordy explanation. The fact that people are still trumping the gear argument even though it was never the real main reason just proves that.

It is true that Moonkin was added in 1.8 and as far as I remember it the initial implementation and the reviews were atrocious at best - and that's me being using the kindest term in dictionary. Many people looked down on Moonkin-specced players with disgust to the point of denouncing these players and deny them the status of a human player.
Tree of Life was added in 2.0 and was equally atrocious, however there were two twists around it, it was a healer - a role widely if still for a great part even the only accepted role for a Druid and it's got its own unique dance, heh.
Anyways both forms sort of collided with the Druid form design philosophy which was not being the clown-in-town but having forms for purpose, combat forms and mobility forms. Mobility forms let you assume the form of a swift animal but stripped you of all your abilities whereas combat forms added new strengths, powers, abilities, resources in trade for your caster form abilities. The whole point of Druid gameplay mastery back then was - and I still recall their initial descriptions - to know when to choose which forms as the shifting was expensive, the choice was crucial and was supposed to make an impact on your gameplay.
Originally combat forms however weren't all that powerful and were not supposed to be attained permanently. There was initially a great emphasis on caster form - which artistic aspects aside was still a form too.

Now that being said the new forms were effectively matryoshkas (you know the Russian doll-inside-a-doll-inside-a-doll), they hid caster form beneath another caster form without adding a new resource to toy with, without own abilities, without deep impact on gameplay, without any special power, instead they were just bland buffs castrated by a huge malus (negative bonus). Moonkin couldn't even use Innervate in its original inception, Tree of Life was in fact moving at snail's speed which ironically forced you to shift out and thus at least retained a minimum of Druid gameplay. There were closer to a Shadow Priest's Shadow form by design than to a their original animal forms. It were two different designs colliding right there, one of them being an alien intruder even. It was said back then by the most wisest of all Druids back then that this design clash will haunt the class and the game forever. And indeed it did. Look at the road and turns which each of those 'caster'-forms had to take.

During Cataclysm beta there was a fierce debate going on about whether Moonkin at the current state at that time shouldn't be turned into a cooldown as well as it was nothing but a weak buff shell with a clunky mechanic pretending to add new gameplay twists. The designer in charge - a famous one whose name you shall never guess - designed to put it on steroids and keep it. I personally suspected then and I still do that it was merely a diplomatic move. Players were still raging about the "loss" of the Tree of Life and removing the more ancient Moonkin as well would have turned Cataclysm into Armageddon for Druids.
As the game will move on things will still change, Moonkin is still not safe, its death may have been merely postponed. However I think the new ToL design was a gesture of goodwill as well - as the developers said it has been there for a long time for the good or the bad part - and instead of just sticking to the bad part they hybridized the originally clashing design philosophies and forged it into a new super-weapon. It may not be perfect yet but it is certainly expandable.

Overall I still think the original animal-based form was sound and well-rounded, adding caster-caster forms just diluted, confused and put the class on roller-coasting state for far too long.

[ELEDIN]

There was no single reason for why ToL was changed: There were many reasons and I believe gear was just a popular argument they used because let's face it many people are not much into game design and philosophies revolving around it. The looks and therefore the presentation sometimes carries a higher value than a deep and wordy explanation. The fact that people are still trumping the gear argument even though it was never the real main reason just proves that.

It is true that Moonkin was added in 1.8 and as far as I remember it the initial implementation and the reviews were atrocious at best - and that's me being using the kindest term in dictionary. Many people looked down on Moonkin-specced players with disgust to the point of denouncing these players and deny them the status of a human player.
Tree of Life was added in 2.0 and was equally atrocious, however there were two twists around it, it was a healer - a role widely if still for a great part even the only accepted role for a Druid and it's got its own unique dance, heh.
Anyways both forms sort of collided with the Druid form design philosophy which was not being the clown-in-town but having forms for purpose, combat forms and mobility forms. Mobility forms let you assume the form of a swift animal but stripped you of all your abilities whereas combat forms added new strengths, powers, abilities, resources in trade for your caster form abilities. The whole point of Druid gameplay mastery back then was - and I still recall their initial descriptions - to know when to choose which forms as the shifting was expensive, the choice was crucial and was supposed to make an impact on your gameplay.
Originally combat forms however weren't all that powerful and were not supposed to be attained permanently. There was initially a great emphasis on caster form - which artistic aspects aside was still a form too.

Now that being said the new forms were effectively matryoshkas (you know the Russian doll-inside-a-doll-inside-a-doll), they hid caster form beneath another caster form without adding a new resource to toy with, without own abilities, without deep impact on gameplay, without any special power, instead they were just bland buffs castrated by a huge malus (negative bonus). Moonkin couldn't even use Innervate in its original inception, Tree of Life was in fact moving at snail's speed which ironically forced you to shift out and thus at least retained a minimum of Druid gameplay. There were closer to a Shadow Priest's Shadow form by design than to a their original animal forms. It were two different designs colliding right there, one of them being an alien intruder even. It was said back then by the most wisest of all Druids back then that this design clash will haunt the class and the game forever. And indeed it did. Look at the road and turns which each of those 'caster'-forms had to take.

During Cataclysm beta there was a fierce debate going on about whether Moonkin at the current state at that time shouldn't be turned into a cooldown as well as it was nothing but a weak buff shell with a clunky mechanic pretending to add new gameplay twists. The designer in charge - a famous one whose name you shall never guess - designed to put it on steroids and keep it. I personally suspected then and I still do that it was merely a diplomatic move. Players were still raging about the "loss" of the Tree of Life and removing the more ancient Moonkin as well would have turned Cataclysm into Armageddon for Druids.
As the game will move on things will still change, Moonkin is still not safe, its death may have been merely postponed. However I think the new ToL design was a gesture of goodwill as well - as the developers said it has been there for a long time for the good or the bad part - and instead of just sticking to the bad part they hybridized the originally clashing design philosophies and forged it into a new super-weapon. It may not be perfect yet but it is certainly expandable.

Overall I still think the original animal-based form was sound and well-rounded, adding caster-caster forms just diluted, confused and put the class on roller-coasting state for far too long.

One tiny detail Moonkin is not exactly a pure caster, its like enhancment shaman and at the start it serve some purpose on melee (extra attack power on melee, and mana gain chance with each melee hit). Now that we are completly far away from the enchancment shammy model( we never actually were there, but moonkin played once a tiny part in melee benefit) moonkin form serve no purpose on druid since we have not even a single benefit of what this form really represent.

[Ravenblade]

Correct. Actually now that you put it that way. Moonkin was meant to come with a different play-style indeed. However the archetype of the form was still based on the same doctrine as the shadow form: being resistant to damage, only being able to cast offensive spells. Which still collided with original idea of combat form where abilities weren't just filtered and the rest buffed up but where an actual trade should have happened.
The melee part was the added twist. Some kind of design perversion which never made it really work even under the effect of Windfury, I recall having endless debates with people saying we could cultivate it even more by adding real melee-based abilities to the Moonkin replacing the good ol' auto-attack mode for mana (15% AP = mana returned). While their intention was sort of sympathetic with my understanding of the class' principles I disliked the idea of fostering something which shouldn't have been there in first place.

I missed that detail because I got lost in the grand theme of things. After 5+ years I was playing Druid you sometimes forget these little things we had to bear with.

It took them until 3.0 though to realize their errors. But after 3.0 Moonkin basically became a caricature copy of the Shadow form for sure and while I could accept their treatment for it for Cataclysm it I still think it would have been a more than equal candidate for a cooldown as well. Right now it stands out as anachronism and remembrance for past design mistakes - all this clad within the same old re-colored low-res Winterspring models.

[Paladin Racoon]

Resto druid used to be my main alt but with lack of perma tree i kind of hate staring at that fat-ass tauren of mine all day long.

I don't bother playing him much at all now as the other specs don't really interest me. I'd love a perma tree form again, it'd probably make me play him.

[Playintrafic]

All the wrath kiddies are still popping into this thread.

I wish you people would realize that Permanent tree form healing was huge mistake on blizzard's part and the original intentions of tree form were to give druids a bit of flavor and utility. Not, well, you gotta be in tree form or gtfo. In fact when I came back to my druid during wrath and people would ask why I would only go into tree form to through out hots and then go back out of it, before I realized they had changed it, I just ignored them.

In fact I only remember using it sparingly in TBC, and when I was playing my main, and getting druid heals it was also a only when advantageous type of thing. Most of the time the druid heals were in caster form.

[Deleted]

To the people talking about moonkin form being there from the beginning its far from the truth, my first character back in 2004 was a druid one of the very few balance druids about but i loved the spec and the concept of a nature caster. When 1.8 was added and i was told i had to be a giant f'ing chicken i was far from happy, the 1.8 changes were the large scale talent spec changes for druids if i remember right getting them ready before TBC. The boomkin idea was a battlemage, it never really did what it was intended to do..

So no when i rolled my druid i did not know i would have to play as an oversized chicken bear. A form to this day that i hate.

As for polearms i honestly don't remember using one back then. weren't they added to Druids in 3.0.8?