What to buy first with VP tier 12 (Ret)

[anaxie]

Cinch of the Flaming Ember(378), Heart of Rage(372)

The cloak, ring and trinket bring you over the 16 expertise cap which allows you to reforge those 3 things to Mastery. Also the rest of the gear is pretty much reforge to Mastery (with the except of 2 pieces one to hit and the other to crit). This maxes out the amount of strength you get from gear and the amount of mastery you get while getting you hit and expertise capped.

Currently from what I've seen the Apparatus isn't a good trinket to have because the stacks fall off, if they fix it then you still wouldn't need the chest (reforge 2 peices to exp). This would still maximize your primary dps stats.

I found your problem, why don't you try looking at Heroic Shannox tank belt for a change. And no sorry Apparatus stacks shouldn't fall unless you're out of combat.

[davep]

I found your problem, why don't you try looking at Heroic Shannox tank belt for a change. And no sorry Apparatus stacks shouldn't fall unless you're out of combat.

The heroic tank belt off of Shannox is worse then the 378 honored belt, 240 str vs 282 str, if you want to argue the fact that it's because of the mastery then you are way off because str will always be our best stat.

Also if Apparatus is good then that's fine, the pieces I posted still stand you just have to reforge 2 of them to expertise and you'd still min max str and mastery.

---------- Post added 2011-07-06 at 05:03 PM ----------

There had to be a big stretch in there and there is. While it won't be too far off, Heart of Rage will not be a piece in my final T12 set. If that's how you would arrive at the cap, my point still stands.

Read the last part, if you use Apparatus over the HoR then that's fine to because you'll still be able to cap expertise by reforging 2 of the pieces to expertise still allowing you to min max str and mastery while being hit/expertise capped.

[Prentice]

I am sensing skirt hatred as the underlying reason for the chestpiece you have chosen.

[davep]

I am sensing skirt hatred as the underlying reason for the chestpiece you have chosen.

Considering my ms is prot and the chest is part of my set peices as prot, i'll be seeing the skirt a lot more then ret with bis. It's pretty obvious just look at the tier chest and offset chest and then looking at the tier helm and offset helm. The tier chest has 2 worthless stats for us (expertise is good but we cap out easily without the chest as I've already pointed out) and then you look at offset chest and it has 1 useless stat which is haste, then you look at the tier and offset helm and they both have 2 useful stats one being crit mastery and the other being crit hit (the hit on the helm allows us to not have to reforge as much hit on to the gear as we would need to.

[Prentice]

From the builds that I have been tinkering with, I am never in a situation where I have to reforge to hit or expertise. Being a human and sim'ing with Sulfuras is helpful. Regardless, I am still very partial to the stats provided by the off-set helm. It appears that having a much higher mastery rating (one achieved from base mastery over a 40% reforge) will bolster our dps through the use of AoK. It's still very early, and opinions are nearly worthless at this point. To each his/her own.

[davep]

From the builds that I have been tinkering with, I am never in a situation where I have to reforge to hit or expertise. Being a human and sim'ing with Sulfuras is helpful. Regardless, I am still very partial to the stats provided by the off-set helm. It appears that having a much higher mastery rating (one achieved from base mastery over a 40% reforge) will bolster our dps through the use of AoK. It's still very early, and opinions are nearly worthless at this point. To each his/her own.

it's not opinion, it's simple math

[Prentice]

it's not opinion, it's simple math

There is absolutely nothing simple about the math you think you're doing right now with stat weights that vary by a huge amount. Depending on who's values you are using, haste is better than crit in near-BiS gear. I find this very hard to believe, but it has the potential to be true. As such, any math you thought you were doing is completely and utterly useless.

[davep]

There is absolutely nothing simple about the math you think you're doing right now with stat weights that vary by a huge amount. Depending on who's values you are using, haste is better than crit in near-BiS gear. I find this very hard to believe, but it has the potential to be true. As such, any math you thought you were doing is completely and utterly useless.

haste will never be better then crit unless you can get a 3sec CS which with the amount of haste available with the current gear impossible

[Deleted]

Get relic, they does not drop in raids

[t3hj0j0]

haste will never be better then crit unless you can get a 3sec CS which with the amount of haste available with the current gear impossible

Except that redcapes SS is showing that haste beats crit in BiS/near BiS gear by a few points. It might be a "simple math" error, but it is showing to beat crit, so its not worthless besides 3 sec CS as far as BiS and redcapes SS is concerned.

[NaaBcAke]

I managed to grab first leg HC token from Shannox, so i guess i'll have to save VP now for it, would be awesome if it droped in BH, unfortunately it didn't, so i guess ill have to skip chest for now, and if i dont get head/shoulder token, ill just go for hands next to speed up process of 2 t12 2 t11, and legs + hands shoud take 4 weeks , while legs + chest need 5th one :/

[anaxie]

The heroic tank belt off of Shannox is worse then the 378 honored belt, 240 str vs 282 str, if you want to argue the fact that it's because of the mastery then you are way off because str will always be our best stat.

Also if Apparatus is good then that's fine, the pieces I posted still stand you just have to reforge 2 of them to expertise and you'd still min max str and mastery.

Cinch of the Flaming Ember +20str/20hit
312 str 801.84
153 hit 558.74
230 crit 343.75
1704.33DPS

Uncrushable Belt of Fury +40Str
280 str 719.6
342 mast 622.24
153 exp 453.49
1795.33DPS

Weights
str 2.57
mast 1.8194
crit 1.4902
hit 3.6519
Exp 2.964

[Deleted]

Cinch of the Flaming Ember +20str/20hit
312 str 801.84
153 hit 558.74
230 crit 343.75
1704.33DPS

Uncrushable Belt of Fury +40Str
280 str 719.6
342 mast 622.24
153 exp 453.49
1795.33DPS

Weights
str 2.57
mast 1.8194
crit 1.4902
hit 3.6519
Exp 2.964

Cinch of the Flaming Ember

After reforging: (Crit -> Mastery)
138 crit 205.65
92 mast 167.4
153 hit 558.74
312 str 801.84
1733.63 DPS

But then again, most will avoid items with expertise cause we reach the cap of 16 rather easy.
I suppose most will even reforge it to crit.

Uncrushable Belt of Fury

After reforging (Exp -> Crit)
280 str 719.6
342 mast 622.24
61 crit 90.9
92 exp 272,69
1705.43 DPS

Anyways, yes its better IF you use all the experise.

[t3hj0j0]

Cinch of the Flaming Ember

After reforging: (Crit -> Mastery)
138 crit 205.65
92 mast 167.4
153 hit 558.74
312 str 801.84
1733.63 DPS

But then again, most will avoid items with expertise cause we reach the cap of 16 rather easy.
I suppose most will even reforge it to crit.

Uncrushable Belt of Fury

After reforging (Exp -> Crit)
280 str 719.6
342 mast 622.24
61 crit 90.9
92 exp 272,69
1705.43 DPS

Anyways, yes its better IF you use all the experise.

But what if, say... you had to reforge the hit off Flaming Ember? Flaming Ember is better if you use all of the hit and you don't use all of the exp off of Fury. It's late, I crashed my car today, I'm tired, so I'm not guna do the math, but check to see the numbers if you reforge the hit to mastery off of Flaming Ember instead of the crit.

[anaxie]

But what if, say... you had to reforge the hit off Flaming Ember? Flaming Ember is better if you use all of the hit and you don't use all of the exp off of Fury. It's late, I crashed my car today, I'm tired, so I'm not guna do the math, but check to see the numbers if you reforge the hit to mastery off of Flaming Ember instead of the crit.

I actually run into the best case scenario, I reforge the expertise into hit.

Also realistically you WANT to use Apparatus H as ret, you can't without uncrushable belt.