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  1. #1

    Undercutting: What do you think about that ?

    Hello

    I'd just like to know what you think about undercutting. Many peoples says it's bad, many others says it's acceptable. What about you ?

    For my part, i think it is acceptable, but only if it's done by a fair amount. Let me explain:

    Not so long ago, i looked at the AH to know the prices of the enchanting scroll that grant +20 stats to chest (peerless stats). There was 2 of them at 1999g each. I made a scroll, and listed it for 1499g. 2 hours later, someone else listed 2 of these scroll for 1299g. This is what i call "fair and acceptable" because they are actualy willing to sell it cheaper than mine. No problem with that.

    Another case now. I looked at "delicate inferno ruby", and the lowest ones listed was at 149g. I list 6 of them for 139g 99s 99c. 30 minutes ago, someone else list 10 of them at 139g 98s 99c. I personaly find it very irritating. Should i be that much irritated ?

    So, what is your opinion about undercutting ? Is this acceptable to undercut by a fair amount ? and if it is, what is the threshold between a "fair" amount and a "not-fair" amount ?

    Another thing: 2 weeks ago, i had about 400x inferno ink sleeping on my bank. I looked at the AH: 30g each. I listed all of them for 15g each, just to get rid of these. Couple of minutes later, i get a wisper from someone who is known to be an "Auction house player" on my server. He told me i was killing the economy by dooing that. I asked him why he didn't just buy all of them and relist it for more, and his answer was some kind of wall of text about how the economy is working.. and well, i didn't understand half of what he meant.. (i know very little about economy, and i'm still trying to understand why the gasoline prices is gooing up these years.. lol).

  2. #2
    I think its ok because if you are good at using and "playing" the auction house you know tricks ect how to make money from people doing stuff like undercutting ect. But sometimes on very populated servers it can be a problem.
    Katon: Chaos Bolt no Jutsu

  3. #3
    Dreadlord xenaros's Avatar
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    I agree with you, undecutting by 1c to be top of the list is cheap but most people do it. Personally when buying items I will scroll past the 1c undercutters and buy from someone who has posted a round number.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    For the people that think it's OK, you are in with the flow.

    For the people that cannot stand people undercutting (whichever the amount), QQ moar.

    Undercutting by a very slight value and undercutting by a chunk is used for different purpose, but both are used depends on the items selling and the reason for undercutting.

    Undercutting by a slight value is generally used when you post something in routine, and most of the time it is an addon that do the undercutting for you that fix to 1 copper by default, generally used for consumables or items that have large quantities on the AH - enchants, gems etc.

    Undercutting by a chunk is usually for larger value items, such as brand new epics, 50k cut to 49999.99 isn't really different, and those value usually depreciate very fast (gems and enchants usually stays around the same value), epics that sells at 50k first week (only 1 or 2 ppl got it) to about 30k second week (a small margin of people have it) and fall to like 10-15k in a month cause a much larger playerbase can get them, for those larger chunk of undercutting usually happens due to you want to sell yours FAST before it devalue too much.

    Undercutting by a big chunk is also nice to piss people off (especially people that re-post theirs within 15sec of theirs being undercut), after you have an undercut war with him 4-5 times when you start to get bored, I would post my gems for about 20g, enough to cover fees and cost with a very slight profit, but too high for them to buy out to re-sell (if they do, I cut another one in front of them and ask if they will buy that one too, and cut another and repeat if they do), it is extremely fun when you wanna piss the other guy off.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenaros View Post
    I agree with you, undecutting by 1c to be top of the list is cheap but most people do it. Personally when buying items I will scroll past the 1c undercutters and buy from someone who has posted a round number.
    Same here. What gets me are the people who undercut by 20-50%, at a time when items are selling (rather than someone posting an outrageous price on an item). I'm talking about when enchanting mats start to go up, etc. Drives me nuts.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


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  6. #6
    economy lesson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    if u were to buy off the auction house the mats to make (the good before heroic raiding epic shield) it would cost around 1800 gold. but the shield averages for 3000 gold

    the difference in price is the profit, the players income to make the time it took to level to even learn that plan worth it

    if the player bought everything off the auction house it's only a 1200 gold profit, and if they farmed it all themself its a pure profit of 3 grand at the cost of their personal time to farm

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    there is no ethics, it's a player ran system based on supply, availability and demand. if supply is great then selling those 400 inks would have worked well. but if someone else who needed money had inks to sell, they would in turn undercut you.

    at the moment you went from the least expensive to setting the ceiling on the price

    every time you undercut someone you affect the market because if yours doesn't sell at the listed price before someone else puts their up then you've effectively lowered the value of the product

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    so to answer your question it's not unethical but it is dangerous
    i recommend never putting more then 50 of a stack-able item up on the ah at once like ink
    and items that sell well individually no more then 5

    do this and once yours sells, people will try to uncut the people you undercut originally by a couple copper, while you are doing it by a couple hundred gold, undercutting them all

    this is how im able to make 600 gold a day off chimera's eyes, by putting them up on the ah for 122 gold in 5 individual stacks and my competitors have them up for 180. when i put them up in stacks of ten it took too long for my competitors to sell and they took them off and decided to undercut me. (i have 6 jc's before anyone asks)

    and i definitely think doing it by a wider margin like % is a far more reasonable way to undercut someone, since the difference between cost and the list price is usually wide and your sacrificing a little profit to sell it faster.

  7. #7
    I always undercut. Always. I am that guy.

  8. #8
    Epic! Skelly's Avatar
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    Basically, the market for consumables with low posting costs is dominated by the person who is willing to put the most time into sitting there and undercutting the competition.
    I see nothing wrong with this time vs. reward.
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  9. #9
    I undercut all the time, usually by 5~10%. Especially on mats that are farmed by Susan and Company (ore, herbs, etc...).

  10. #10
    Generally, I have no problem with it.... but I never buy an undercut that is a negligible amount. If there's an item up for 100g and someone else posts theirs for 99g 99s 99c, I'll buy the one for 100g (and if I'm feeling particularly vindictive, I'll take note of the name on the cheaper auction, and try to avoid buying anything else they're selling).

  11. #11
    like you said if they undercut you by a decent amount, eg if your selling 50g and they sell 40 fine, if they do 49g99s99c then that piss's me off and I tend to buy off the person they undercut them and send them a sarcastic comment or many until they catch on,

    and oh yea people who wisp or bitch about the economy, jesus that piss's me off 2 guildies the other month arguing, one had picked 5k herbs to make x amount of flasks for the guild, now he did buy some here and there or some other stuff, so all the flasks he made he stuck them in at like 80 each (he had 500) he worked out he was just re couping his loss's and thats all he wanted, anyways the other guildie was just letting rip into him for it, funny enough said guild member happened to be a alchmist too

    but serious over time prices do drop some people are just speeding up the process nothing wrong with it

  12. #12
    Hell yea i undercut and its always by 1c. Despise me or not.. i dont care. What really grinds my gears are the people that undercut <insert item here> by well over 50-80%+ (ie. 200g glyph down to 20g). Really ?!?! Why? What they don't understand is that the glyph WILL sell no matter what the price (within reason) because "its a one-time deal and once i have it i don't need it again" mentality kicks in. I just buy it, thank them for the stock and relist it. Problem is, is that they now relist more at that price and continue their bad habits without learning how something works (ie visiting forums like this & reading/learning).

    Undercutting by anything that is NOT rational is just plain stupid. NOW......... if someone is undercutting by a significant amount as an AH tactic, that's different. By all means do it. I have done that from time to time (works great on ah bots) and it works well if you understand how the market fluctuates, like a lot of people have stated here. Unfortunalty, the average player doesn't care or even care to understand how the ah econ works; they just want the quick buck which hurts people trying to run their in-game business; again as they've stated to me "I don't give an F".

    But if you repost your shit at 20g cause you feel that you want to help out your fellow gamer... yur an idiot. People could care less about that and I doubt any of you are getting in-game mails stating how much they appreciate your low prices. Just consider it more stock for me and expect an in-game mail from me thanking you. Hopefully, you run out and eventually realize that you are not making any money and move on a more profitable prof that you fail at.

  13. #13
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Generally, I have no problem with it.... but I never buy an undercut that is a negligible amount. If there's an item up for 100g and someone else posts theirs for 99g 99s 99c, I'll buy the one for 100g (and if I'm feeling particularly vindictive, I'll take note of the name on the cheaper auction, and try to avoid buying anything else they're selling).
    I never understood this kind of reasoning. The person who put it up for 100g surely undercut someone else to do so. Why do you care about what anyone else does except for your bottom line? Especially taking note of the name of the person doing it ... that's a whole lot of effort in order to spend more of your own money on things.
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  14. #14
    I see that the opinions are pretty much splitted, anyway thanks for everyone's answers

  15. #15
    Undercutting is a way of life in any kind of consumer market. The consumer (buyer) wants the cheapest price and the producer (seller) wants to..well..sell. So its a circle.

    As for the fair amount, I generally undercut by 1s, 1c is fine too. As I said undercutting is a natural cycle with any kind of consumer market, if you dont do it someone else will (including the guy that says don't do it). This is based on a saturated market (Potions, Gems, Glyphs). The smaller market such as Epics, Larger enchants...prices are generally not based on quantity but profit. If a guild gets a BoE epic drop in a raid they are making 100% profit so they might sell it for cheap, where as a guy that thought he got a good deal on the AH might not be able to afford to put it on the AH any lower then what he payed. This is where the Fair and Unfair prices come in.


    This situation that you stated is a good one, and I agree with you. That "auction house player" should have seen an oppurtunity in buying your goods and reselling for a quick effortless flip. The reason he did not is probably due to the broken market that is glyph making. He was probably worried that he wouldn't sell that many inks and did not feel like investing his funds.

    My suggestion to you, don't worry about it. Its never going to be 100% fair. Do what you want make the gold that you want. And never worry about "auction house players"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by boniggy View Post
    Hell yea i undercut and its always by 1c. Despise me or not.. i dont care. What really grinds my gears are the people that undercut <insert item here> by well over 50-80%+ (ie. 200g glyph down to 20g). Really ?!?! Why? What they don't understand is that the glyph WILL sell no matter what the price (within reason) because "its a one-time deal and once i have it i don't need it again" mentality kicks in. I just buy it, thank them for the stock and relist it. Problem is, is that they now relist more at that price and continue their bad habits without learning how something works (ie visiting forums like this & reading/learning).

    Undercutting by anything that is NOT rational is just plain stupid. NOW......... if someone is undercutting by a significant amount as an AH tactic, that's different. By all means do it. I have done that from time to time (works great on ah bots) and it works well if you understand how the market fluctuates, like a lot of people have stated here. Unfortunalty, the average player doesn't care or even care to understand how the ah econ works; they just want the quick buck which hurts people trying to run their in-game business; again as they've stated to me "I don't give an F".

    But if you repost your shit at 20g cause you feel that you want to help out your fellow gamer... yur an idiot. People could care less about that and I doubt any of you are getting in-game mails stating how much they appreciate your low prices. Just consider it more stock for me and expect an in-game mail from me thanking you. Hopefully, you run out and eventually realize that you are not making any money and move on a more profitable prof that you fail at.
    They may be punishing people for repeatedly undercutting them. There's only one other guy on my server who makes a specific item. We get the mats for about 25g in nearly unlimited amounts and crank out something that sells for 275g to 399g. He undercuts a lot so every so often I show him that we can both make a lot of gold or a little gold. I leave the price very low for a few days after he sees the light. It may seem like a dick move but he is kind of a dick so I have fun playing the AH with him.
    Last edited by Gulvar; 2011-07-05 at 05:53 PM.

  17. #17
    What really grinds my gears are the people that undercut <insert item here> by well over 50-80%+ (ie. 200g glyph down to 20g). Really ?!?! Why?
    Many peoples just want to get rid of the glyphs they make while leveling inscription in the fastest way possible. If you catch it up on the AH and list it for more, everthing's fine.

    I've heard many peoples QQing how much "unethical" the glyph market is. I was thinking the same way before, and i enjoyed crafting and putting very low priced glyph in extremely large quantity just to piss off the "abusers".

    Now i've changed my mind about that.. the AH is for those who want a quicky, right here right now. And that cost money. The other way is: take 15 minutes of playtime to find a scribe, obtain the cheap mats for the glyphs, get them crafted, and throw a tips. And i'm always willing to help those who want a glyph and who are willing to provide the mats.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Salamalak View Post
    Many peoples just want to get rid of the glyphs they make while leveling inscription in the fastest way possible. If you catch it up on the AH and list it for more, everthing's fine.

    I've heard many peoples QQing how much "unethical" the glyph market is. I was thinking the same way before, and i enjoyed crafting and putting very low priced glyph in extremely large quantity just to piss off the "abusers".

    Now i've changed my mind about that.. the AH is for those who want a quicky, right here right now. And that cost money. The other way is: take 15 minutes of playtime to find a scribe, obtain the cheap mats for the glyphs, get them crafted, and throw a tips. And i'm always willing to help those who want a glyph and who are willing to provide the mats.
    The glyph market is very cut throat. Reason being is gyphs are not being bought like they were before wrath patch. I really think blizzard made a huuuge mistake when doing that, that is my opinion. I just hope they have good reason other then people were getting uber rich.

  19. #19
    I post up my auctions and usually undercut by 5-20 gold if its anything from 100-900g. When its a higher ticket item that sells for several thousand, I undercut by 100-300 depending on the sell amount.
    When I buy the occasional gem, I search for the cheapest one as anyone else does. If I see one that selling for 100 and another selling for 99.99 i buy the 100g item. Its my way of saying F.U to the people undercutting by a few copper.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord
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    Undercutting is a fact of life.

    It's the economy, stupid.

    You're dealing with stuff which has a value which is very difficult to define, as some people don't value their time much and so consider materials to be very cheap, while some people consider farming to take much too much of their valuable time and so are willing to pay a lot for materials. Because of this, crafted items have a wide swing of "reasonable price" - you may consider something to be worth a lot, and it's quite irritating for someone to undercut you to a price you consider to be below cost (at which point, hold onto your item, relist when the too-cheap ones are gone).

    As far as the undercut-by-a-penny bit... yeah, that suck, plain and simple. Extremely irritating, so much to OP that he'll vent here on a forum (well servers are down so)... what can you do about it? Not much. Do it back to the guy. Camp the AH and just rapidfire do it. Or, list something else and hope you're not quickly undercut by a penny there.

    I used to hope that people would realize that someone was a jerk for undercutting by a copper and buy my item... I tried to go that route with my purchases, to punish the micro undercuts, but it was just a dream. People will grab the cheapest item, regardless of how much cheaper it actually is.

    Deal with it, it's going to happen... and, "Do unto others as they would do unto you, but do it first!"

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