Arcane balancing stats

[Markofcain]

At what point does crit move ahead of haste? When ab hits gcd during lust? And if that's the case is that with 4 stacks of the ab buff. It seems like with having the 2 rotations haste would have a cap unless I just really don't have a good understanding of conservation rotation. That being said what are you guys doing to keep your dmg/dps from dropping during the conservation phase? It seems like during that phase is really when our mastery kicks in.Thanks for the input.Kains/velen/ 1/7 firelands

[Spleen]

In theory, you burn right up to the point where your evocation takes you back to 100% (or 95%).

From there, you're using flame orb for AM procs.

IF your gear-level's regen supports it, you're then doing 4+ casts of AB before using missles on proc (or clearing stack with ABarr).

Then when your burn phase will take you to a freshly-off CD evoke, you start your new burn (popping AP and gem at whatever mana level the gem's use gets you back to 95/100%).

Your gear provides the DPS level of your conserve phase.

I'm typically able to cast 5-6 AB and my mana goes back to 95/100% during my AM cast with my gearing/stats.

Of course, I've added a few pieces of FL gear, and I'm due for a reforge-fest, but what I have right now does very well for me.


The only answer you can get about haste/crit/mastery in your gear is to sim your toon. Otherwise, you'll just get generic guidelines.

(but yes, the haste point where your AB is at GCD under lust/timewarp/heroism is where you stop stacking haste/reforge away your haste for crit/mastery)

[Rottenbob]

Last time i checked haste was the least wanted stat by arcane mages. First of all it lets you burn through your mana to fast wchih make you benefit less from mastery.
Crit lets you regain mana from master of elements much more so your conservation phase looks more like 4xAB and AM than 3xAB and AM and that makes significant difference. Rawr says that Crit>Mastery>haste is the way it shoulg go, although we should not totally neglect the haste coz we might lose to much casts from movement fights. We should try to balance stuff not reforging everything to crit but the priority is still crit>mastery>haste.

But as the Spleen said its the matter of gear, when you are decked with best gear and you can do shit loads of ABs during conserwaiotn phase haste is kinda kicking in a lot.

[Deleted]

As soon as you lose 4T11, haste greatly rises in value. I've always noticed that crit/haste/mastery values are quite close to each other anyway..

Last time i checked haste was the least wanted stat by arcane mages. First of all it lets you burn through your mana to fast wchih make you benefit less from mastery.

At any rate, more haste rating won't give you less dps. Sure you burn through your mana a bit faster, but an extra AB every x seconds because you have more haste will more than make up for the very slight damage increase from burning less mana.

[Imnick]

Actually haste would probably make your mastery more valuable rather than less, if you think about it.
Mastery has very little effect on your burn phase, the occasion where you will be burning all of your mana and casting as quickly as possible. This is the place where haste could possibly be regarded as a bad thing because it will become faster while your evocate cooldown remains the same, however if you think about it this isn't really a disadvantage at all.
As an arcane mage, you should never ever ever run out of mana. Once you have done a burn phase you switch to a conserving phase where you stay close to 100% mana. This is where your mastery becomes important, because you are keeping your mana high to keep your damage from mastery bonus high.
Having more haste allows you to make more mastery-boosted casts in the conserve phase, meaning more casts affected by your mastery, making your mastery more valuable. Your burn phase included just as many spell casts as it would have done if you did not have that haste because no secondary stat decreases the mana cost of spells and you have now also cast more spells during your conserve phase than you otherwise would, resulting in a net increase of spell casts and therefore of damage.

The only reason haste might ever be bad for your DPS is when it pushes you under the GCD cap, and this still isn't a bad thing as it doesn't decrease your DPS, it just means that the secondary stat points would have been better spent somewhere else. The fact that Arcane Blast's cast time is so low and so easily capped is what makes haste a little undesirable compared to the other stats not because it means you cast more spells. Casting spells faster is almost never a disadvantage.

[Deleted]

Last time i checked haste was the least wanted stat by arcane mages. First of all it lets you burn through your mana to fast wchih make you benefit less from mastery.
.

Haste is one of our best stats (gear depending) its does not under any cercomstance make you benifit less from mastery
as an example take 4 casts of AM bringing you from 100% mana to 85%
with no haste you get these in 6sec (1.5sec cast)
with so much haste that your casts are 1sec (no possible atm)
your 4 casts will still take you from 100% to 85%, just this time in 4sec's
the effect of mastery on these 4 casts is the same in both situations

The reason we want to get to 1sec GCD under TW situations is so
all the AB's we cast on our burn is with AP active with low haste
you will only get to around 55% mana before your AP falls of
what then you have too much mana to evoc back up but not
enough that your mastery is boosting its, your stuck wasting 20% mana
on AB4's with no AP or mastery

Edit oh and i know our AB's speed up per cast the example is just a simple basic way of explaining why haste will not
affect mastery